line twists on High performance canopies

[Bryguy1224 12]

I made my first two wingsuit flights today on a GTi. They were amazing. I had a blast. However, I got line twists on both jumps. The second resulting in a cutaway. When I pulled on both jumps I clapsed my winds waited about 2 to 3 seconds and pitched. I am jumping a Vengence 120 at about a 1.5 or 1.6 wingloading. I have never gotten line twists before and wondered what is the best way to protect against the problem without buying a new container with dynamic corners. I am guessing shutting it down for a longer time period. Any other suggestions?

Bryan Ody

[medusa 0]

Congratulations on you first WS jumps. there is never a bad first

When you deploy in a normal skydive, do you have to reach your riser and contra rest/fight your canopy opening??

If you do so, that canopy is probably a bad candidate for a WS jump.

People are able to skydive and have perfect opening “no impute on deployment” on high loaded high performance “elliptical” canopies. Although, their opening are perfect on a regular skydive they might have a problem when flying that canopy on a WS jump.
Remember, those types of canopies are really fast and your hands are restricted for any fast action. Even though , the zippers/Wing Cut Away System only take a few second to disable. This second can be a major fact when dealing with a high performance canopy.

Once you get your self into a nasty flat spin, because of the centrifugal forces you might:
A) faint “Blood drains out of your brain”
B) You might not been able to pull your hands up.

I’ve heard millions of stories of WS Cut Away due to high performance canopy. Ask Scary Perry he is an experience skydiver and probably one of the most experience WS pilots and an awesome guy. We all freaked out watching him going low in a matter of seconds. Due to a nasty flat spin on his high performance canopy.


Get your self a docile canopy you can fit on your container. And fly for ever brother.

Hope this advice helps you.

Medusa

Medusa

Get Killed or Die Trying!
Patent pending ATFK15456

[larsrulz 0]

Quote

I am jumping a Vengence 120 at about a 1.5 or 1.6 wingloading. I have never gotten line twists before and wondered what is the best way to protect against the problem without buying a new container with dynamic corners. I am guessing shutting it down for a longer time period. Any other suggestions?

Congrats on a new addiction! I fly a samurai loaded a bit lighter, but I definitely have to harness shift it through opening or it has a mind of its own. My samurai likes to go into a diving turn on opening if I just sit in the harness. I did my first 5 or so flights on a demoed pilot at the recommendation of my BMI, but after that I was jumping my samurai on each of the remaining 30 flights I have done. I was lucky to only have one diving turn (no line twists) on a flight, but my take on airlocks is they add more to the situation than ellipticity alone, so my best advice is to be ready for a harness shift to react to whatever your canopy starts doing on opening.

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[verticalflyer 11]

Dont jump a high performance canopy, your going to get twists occasionally.

Glad you had fun on the jumps, at the end of the day collapse everything, deploy symmetrically use weight shift, but the canopy is stil going to react and it can put a couple of twists in while your unzipping if their is any directional input or asymetry riser loading.

I use to get twists when my feet and knees where not straight and slightly open sufficient burble to turn on deployment as the bag goes up.

Have not had any for awhile, but they happen.

cheers

F

Dont just talk about it, Do it!

[birdynamnam 28]

It is always better to jump a Pilot/Sabre/Safire class canopy than a hp elliptical. No argue about that! I jump a Crossfire2 at wl 1.8. Elliptical's w. line twist's can give you a wild ride. Fortunately as the xfire always has this smooth and very long snivel during the opening sequence, it usually ends up good anyway even though it at first looked like line twists...

(1) Go for a non or semi elliptical canopy

(2) If you do want to use a hp canopy remember to pull at a reasonable altitude, so that you have sufficient time in case of twists/spin! Safety first.

[pbla4024 0]

Just a question, did you jump on your own or with instructor?

Fido

[Gabo 0]

Hello

I know from other experienced pilots that one of the worst canopies you can jump with a W/S is a Vengeance, a buddy of mine had line twists on every jump and had two cutaways before getting himself another canopy. We now jump VX's and had no trouble so far.

Cheers

[LouDiamond 1]

First off, CONGRATS and welcome to the flock.
Sorry to hear you had to cutaway on your second flight. 9 out of 10 times, especially with new birds, line twists are the result of poor body position during the pull sequence. This is complicated even more when you add in a high performance canopy or a canopy thats out of trim, etc. Its a good idea to jump a more docile canopy for your first 10-15 flights until you get your openings down.

Remember, line twists by themselves are not a reason to cutaway. However, if the canopy is diving or spinning up then by all means take the appropriate actions.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[blair700 0]

I made my first 75 or so GTI jumps on a Vengence 150 loaded about 1.5.6:1. The last time I did was the first time I ever used my wing cutaway handles. I love those canopies (I later bought a 135), but I jump a Pilot 168 for all my wingsuit skydives now . I never had too much trouble with line twists, but alot of diving turns on opening that were usually correctable with risers. If you can swing it, having a docile main on yer back for WS jumps is really comforting, which I'd imagine only helps your focus on the flight.
Have fun!
Blair

[Bryguy1224 12]

The canopy was diving and spinning. I was spinning on my back quite violently. Yes I had ground briefings before I jumped the suit and I jumped with an instructor on the first jump. My second jump ( the cutaway ) was a solo. I had a few twists on my first jump as well. After I landed under my reserve someone said that jumping a vengence wasn't a good idea with a wingsuit.

[dragon2 2]

Quote

After I landed under my reserve someone said that jumping a vengence wasn't a good idea with a wingsuit.

Your wingsuit instructor should've told you that. BEFORE you jumped it.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[kallend 2,027]

I bought a Spectre just on account of this problem --- 2 cutaways on a Stiletto.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SCARYPERRY 0]

I also bought a spectre97 and sabre2 97 NOT a problem, my blade 78 now...not a ws friendly canopy!!!! The flat spin you had, was made worse by the suit as you try to reach for handles the suit helps the canopie to spin harder!!! dont wait for it to get spinning to fast or greyout can occor.. reserve repack sure beats high speed dirt

Only he can be happy,who can make his the present hour,for today he has lived

[robibird 3]

For WS flying jumper can use the canopy he jumps the most.
The better you know your canopy, you can better handle your canopy deployment and opening. There is no need to go for bigger canopy if you know how to pack and if you know the rate of sensitivity of the canopy you using. Regardless if it is Stiletto, VX, FX, Radical, Pilot, Spectre,... any canopy can present you with problems. No one can say that any particular type of the canopy is the best for WS flying.

In my opinion, there are two ways how to deploy the canopy:

1. Vertical descend mode (I am using that one in skydiving. I jump FX 82.5 and Radical 95, both are elliptical and one is CB canopy)

After the flock is done, make the break off, than slow your horizontal speed and get your self in to vertical decent as much as possible, i.e. try to become ''normal'' skydiver, falling straight down.
Than pull the PC, and from that point everything follows as usual, like in regular skydive without WS.

IMPORTANT!!! In order to ''kill'' horizontal speed, minimum transition time is 5-6 sec! Very often you see flyers to slow down only for second or two, ending in the worst situation for pull & deployment. IN WS flyer does not slow down completely, the canopy will be opening during transition flight from "horizontal" to vertical, which is creating the area of high turbulence behind WS flyer.

2. Pull in the full flight mode (I am using this in BASE)

Fly max or average flight in terms of glide ratio, pull and MAKE sure that shoulders are square, and that your body does not bend during deployment, inducing unintentional turn. This is the common mistake, and if the pull sequence is not done properly, this unintentional turn will result in line twist (trajectory of your body and canopy during deployment is not the same, and one side of raisers will have more tension). Proper packing is imperative for good openings in WS flying. I am strongly advising that you pack the canopy by yourself, because you will pay particular attention to specific needs of WS canopy openings.

Robert Pecnik
robert@phoenix-fly.com
www.phoenix-fly.com