Your wingsuit canopy (please read the first post before vote)

[tdog 0]

Rules of the poll:

1) This poll is for people who have a rig they call their "wingsuit rig" or when they picked their "only rig" the canopy choice was influenced by their wingsuiting.

2) Select ONE answer from "Wing Loading" and ONE from "Canopy" - consider them different polls in one thread. You should have two items checked.

3) Post any comments or details.

[packing_jarrett 0]

This is going to be a great thread.

IMO selecting different types of canopies/wingloadings shouldn't play a role in flying a wingsuit.

I see it as:
Your deployment position should be the same whether it be RW, freeflying, or even wingsuiting. If your deployment is the same as "Joe Blow's" freeflying skydive then you shouldn't have a problem with jumping high performance parachutes. If you have instability problems while deploying in your wingsuit, then you probably shouldn't be jumping a high performance parachute that relys on good body position for a good deployment.

For the record I jump a crossfire 99 loaded at 1.7. I've had 0 (zero) problems.

Na' Cho' Cheese

[Martini 0]

IMO selecting different types of canopies/wingloadings shouldn't play a role in flying a wingsuit.

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Instability isn't the only issue in wingsuit canopy deployments. A wingsuit canopy deployment under any conditions is not identical to a freefall deployment. Your judgement of other wingsuiters canopy choices is peculiarly harsh considering your low jump numbers and high wingloading. 0 problems? Your time will come.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

• Quote

[tdog 0]

Jarrett,

Sometimes it is not about the deployment...

I have opted to fly under wingsuit in directions that have taken me far from the landing area. One time in particular, I landed so far away from the DZ that I hitched a ride a few miles down a highway with an elderly couple in a Winnebago to get back to the DZ. Once I saw some pin-prick clouds I wanted to play with, I committed to going the distance. Once under canopy, I needed to go farther to an open area, as backtracking would not have been an option due to trees.

I wanted a canopy I could land in a small field next to a highway and had a glide to take me to where I needed to land.

Also, after you open in a wingsuit you have additional maintenance to take care of, and flying a relatively flat glide ratio until all the maintenance is taken care of is nice.

And, then there is the random-acts of wingsuiting, like the time the pilot chute (ya it probably was my fault) - was bouncing on my legwing. I opted to track/dive half a second to get it off my back very quickly. The deployment speed was still slow, but my head low body position caused a swing on deployment... The video is impressive as you see my foot above the slider between the front and rear riser. The canopy flew nice, but I don't think my Katana would have liked it.

How many wingsuit jumps do you have on your 1.7 loaded elliptical?

I know someone who loads a fully elliptical 1.9 and wingsuits with it, but then again, he has hundreds of wingsuit jumps.

[packing_jarrett 0]

Yeah I'm probably wrong even though its my opinion but this is how I strongly feel.
If you can deploy cleanly then I see no problem jumping a high performance parachute. What I hate is when people are like, "Dirka Dirka... You have to jump big canopys because you get line twists when flying wingsuits... Bahka Lacka!". Not true. If you experience line twists then obviously you shouldn't be jumping a high performance parachute.
I guess what I'm trying to say is jump the parachute your normally comfortable with jumping. If you jump an ickybob 75, then by all means jumps whatever you feel like.

To answer your question I have about 60 wingsuit jumps with my canopy and loading. For my first dozen or so jumps I used a Sabre 135.

Na' Cho' Cheese

[tohlakas 0]

I have about 200 wingsuit jumps and I use Sabre 135 with wing load 1.7. Good openings and still responsive and speedy with this wing load.

[phoenixlpr 0]

I have 39 WS jumps with a Pilot150 ~WL 1.4.

[jurgencamps 0]

I have only a few jumps with a wingsuit. I use the parachute of my girlfriend (silhouette 170) during these jumps.
Normally I jump a velo 90 (WL 2,2), but I prefer something different for these kind of jumps for several reasons.

Jurgen

[pierre3636 0]

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Yeah I'm probably wrong even though its my opinion but this is how I strongly feel.
If you can deploy cleanly then I see no problem jumping a high performance parachute. What I hate is when people are like, "Dirka Dirka... You have to jump big canopys because you get line twists when flying wingsuits... Bahka Lacka!". Not true. If you experience line twists then obviously you shouldn't be jumping a high performance parachute.
I guess what I'm trying to say is jump the parachute your normally comfortable with jumping. If you jump an ickybob 75, then by all means jumps whatever you feel like.

To answer your question I have about 60 wingsuit jumps with my canopy and loading. For my first dozen or so jumps I used a Sabre 135.

famous last words - hope you have some hard housing risers.

in my opinion its not about when things go right - like they do 99% of the time - its about that ONE time that you drop a shoulder and have a bad deployment, and a zip gets stuck and by the time you quick release your wings you have done 3 spins and pressure has mounting and and and ,,,,,

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[Tonto 1]

I have 270 WS dives on a Safire 109 loaded to 1.85.

No Wingsuit malfunctions yet.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

I have a wingsuit specific Wings W1-2 container with all the mods in which I keep a pretty-heavilly loaded Sabre2 97 (1.83). I don't use it for anything else. I stopped using Velos and my other, older, very-hp canopies in 2003 after two very bad experiences which resulted in ugly chops that I nearly didn't get away with. The Sabre2 does the job perfectly and has never been "a handfull" even on the occasions that I have opened into linetwists. It doesn't suck that it also swoops very well at that wingloading.

Chuck

[GeordieSkydiver 0]

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Yeah I'm probably wrong even though its my opinion but this is how I strongly feel.
If you can deploy cleanly then I see no problem jumping a high performance parachute. What I hate is when people are like, "Dirka Dirka... You have to jump big canopys because you get line twists when flying wingsuits... Bahka Lacka!". Not true. If you experience line twists then obviously you shouldn't be jumping a high performance parachute.
I guess what I'm trying to say is jump the parachute your normally comfortable with jumping. If you jump an ickybob 75, then by all means jumps whatever you feel like.

To answer your question I have about 60 wingsuit jumps with my canopy and loading. For my first dozen or so jumps I used a Sabre 135.

Man, I never read such bollox.

I really, really hope you never have any real problems, but if you do, can I have the first pre-emptive Told you so!??

Lee _______________________________

In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy?
http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk

[GeordieSkydiver 0]

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famous last words - hope you have some hard housing risers.

in my opinion its not about when things go right - like they do 99% of the time - its about that ONE time that you drop a shoulder and have a bad deployment, and a zip gets stuck and by the time you quick release your wings you have done 3 spins and pressure has mounting and and and ,,,,,

Well said.

Lee _______________________________

In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy?
http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk

[saly 0]

As Xwind says... "be sure to take video"

---------------------------------------------
If you don't have wings you will never fly

[dragon2 2]

I have ~250 wingsuit jumps, mostly jumping a Spectre 135 at 1.2, with a few using other canopies like Safire 2 119, Pilot 124, Vengeance 135, Sabre 120.
My current wingsuit canopy is either the Sabre 120 or a Springo 120 (sorta like Stiletto), haven't made up my mind yet to keep the Sabre or not, as I have only a few jumps on the Springo and I'm not familiar enough with it yet.

One wingsuit mal so far, but not due to the canopy, it was a hard/impossi-pull, so went straight to reserve after 1500 ft of yanking on my hackey.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[980 0]

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If you can deploy cleanly then I see no problem jumping a high performance parachute.

How about the time it takes to unzip your wings and get full control of your HP canopy?

How about how much faster the HP canopy flies (even in brakes) and how much quicker you lose altitude?

How about a brake fire?

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If you experience line twists then obviously you shouldn't be jumping a high performance parachute.

If you think you can keep jumping any high performance and never get linetwists, then obviously you need to jump it some more...

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I guess what I'm trying to say is jump the parachute your normally comfortable with jumping.

not applicable to many people...

I am perfectly happy jumping a Velocity 90 (at 2.2 lbs/sq.ft) all day when I'm not jumping my wingsuit.

I have also jumped that same canopy with my wingsuit (twice) and now I will rather not jump than jump a Velo at 2.2 in a wingsuit.

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To answer your question I have about 60 wingsuit jumps with my canopy and loading.

60 sounds like a lot to someone with 400 jumps

I have almost that many jumps in my winsgsuits on a Xaos-21 100 at 1.8 lbs/sq.ft and with that canopy I am comfortable in a wingsuit.

I have around 350 wingsuit jumps on a Nitro 120 at 1.6 lbs/sq.ft

Linetwists happened with both of those but once I learned how to deal with them a bit better, it never became an issue.

When deciding what canopy to get though, I demo'd quite a few canopies in wingsuits and with around 450 skydives at that point and just moving to elliptical and HP canopies (the Nitro), I got linetwists that became a spinner and chopped a Nitro 135 that I know now I could've fixed, if only I had some more experience.

At the end of the day there is no magic size, type or wingloading of canopy that is fine for everyone in a wingsuit.

There's a reason you don't see many very experienced wingsuit jumpers using a highly loaded high performance canopy (especially crossbraced canopies) for their wingsuit jumps.

The reason is that it is not the smartest choice.

Then again, the smartest choice is not always the most fun.

I guess the trick is to try and be smart enough that you get the optimum fun-to-risk ratio.

Be a little too conservative and all you lose out on is a little extra fun.

Be a little too aggressive and you lose out on a lot more.

So go ahead and flame me if you want for saying that you seem to be under-estimating the risks of jumping a loaded HP canopy in a wingsuit when I choose to jump exactly that.

Keep in mind though that last year I did 328 skydives.

[wildchild 0]

I normally jump a Hurricane 135 (elliptical, loaded at just over 1.2). For wingsuiting, I've switched to a Pilot 132.

The discussion I had with Tonto when choosing a wingsuit canopy, and what it really comes down to for me, is that a large part of the appeal of wingsuiting is about more freefall time, and being up there as long as possible.

Which means that I really don't want to jump a canopy that I have to deploy 1000ft higher "in case something goes wrong". I'd rather take full advantage of the flight time, with the canopy ride not being the focus of the skydive.

____________________________
"If there is doubt, there is no doubt." - Tonto

[vesatoro 0]

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Then again, the smartest choice is not always the most fun.
I guess the trick is to try and be smart enough that you get the optimum fun-to-risk ratio.

Well said.

I have never been able to afford two rigs, so I have had to choose the canopy with a combination of good enough opening characteristics for wingsuiting and at the same time to fulfill my love with fun canopy piloting.
My first ws canopy (about 150 jumps) was a Contrail 105 (1,5lbs/sqft), but I found it too snivelly and prone to line twists. It's so far the only canopy I have chopped with 2000 jumps (~400ws). Quite soon after that I started looking for a canopy that would open more suitably and fly at least as well. I ended up with an FX 79, and later 70sqft (2,3lbs/sqft). I do know that's not the ideal ws canopy, but for me it's a fair compromize.

Pros: appr. 90% straight onheading openings, 5% less than 180 degrees and 5% 1/2-1 line twists flying straight. Nice flying and swooping.

Cons: the spinning chop will eventually come, need to open higher to deal with malfunctions and to give time/altitude to unzip etc.

Smart enough? Only time will tell.

"Fear is the path to the Dark side"
(Master Yoda)

[TALONSKY 0]

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. If you experience line twists then obviously you shouldn't be jumping a high performance parachute.

Wow, your are feeling very full of yourself aren't you ar the whole 400 something jumps. I know you and I am not sure why all the sudden you have this kind of attitude, anyway sooner or later you will experience line twist with you wingsuit and they are not fun. I had about 3 with my cross fire and everytime it would point it's self to the ground. I have had a handfull of line twist with my VX109 (most were when I was trying to figure out packing it) and only once did it point it's self to the ground for just 1 revolution. Anyways Jarett if you are going to jump a high performance canopy and wingsuit you should pull just a little higher to give altitude to deal with it (I personally added an extra 800 feet to my pull height with the crossfire)
I hope everything is going great for you and your dad.
Kirk

[MarkM 0]

Geez, 400 jumps, 1 year in the sport, 60 wingsuit jumps... good luck with that.

I have about 240 wingsuit jumps and use a 1.1 loaded Hornet(pretty much just like a pilot). I don't deploy cleanly, don't pack cleanly, and I love my stable rock solid canopy.

[Sinister 0]

Haha I hate to pick fights with people but that is some dumb ass shit to say. There could be newbees reading your post and getting un safe advice.

I jump a extremley fast and highly loaded braced experimental canopy and I am very very comftorble flying it I am allways pushing it to new limits and I feel comftorble to fly it in all situations except Wingsuit jumps.

I have a dedicated wingsuit rig with dynamic corners, a reserve as my main a large hole slider, 9' bridle, and a vented 36" PC. the reason I chose to jump this configuration is because it is safer and built for the task.
The canopy opens in 200' so I can open lower it allways opens on heading, the 9' bridle helps further ensure that my PC will reach clean air, The PC is larger to ensure it grabs as much air as possible and is vented to reduce ocilation, the container has dynamic corners to ensure the bag does not spin when coming out of the container.

For most wingsuit pilots the body position of their deployment is far different from a freefly or RW jump. I personaly don't shut down my wingsuit and go in to vertical freefall prior to deployment I pull in full flight and keep flying till I am under my canopy.

Just FYI this is all coming from someone who is not a saftey paraniod guy. I have had no chops and I have done some crazy things like deploying head down, deploying while back tracking ect. But I chose not to deploy a HP canopy at 2000' while flying a wingsuit.

Shane Murphy
www.adrenalinegeeks.com

[packing_jarrett 0]

There! I got it updated 500 jumps now Oh boy watch out!

I'm not trying to get in trouble here. Thats really the last thing I want to to; but it has been awhile hasn't it?

I'm not trying to persuade or teach anyone on here. I'm just telling you guys my opinion. And to me it makes sense. If you can pull stable then you won't need the docile canopy for wingsuit. If you pull sloppy then a docile canopy is what you should be jumping.

I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said before.

Edit: Actually my new wingsuit rig just arrived today. Check it out.

Na' Cho' Cheese

[pastramionrye7 0]

No category for sub-1:1 loading?

The last thing a new bird needs to worry about is an overly aggressive canopy.

[VectorBoy 0]

Most of my WS jumps are on an elliptical at 1.4. Its a balance thing. It opens on heading and does not dive on the very rare line twists due to lighter loading. I use to fly the same canopy in a smaller size at 1.6 but after converting it with an H-mod the snivel lasted so long it got me into trouble more often than not.

Lately my WS friends have been using reserves as mains. WE flock along and I pull high enough to accommodate my 700'-ish snivel and be legal and safe. They fly for quiet a few seconds longer, glide closer to the DZ and pull high enough for their 250 foot snivel-pop. We end up at the same alti but they are further than those of us that pulled higher.

Downside to their system is that they must open above the DZ as their canopy does not glide quite as far as 9 cell ZP. My back up WS rig will be equiped more like this than my primary rig.

[tdog 0]

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No category for sub-1:1 loading?

The last thing a new bird needs to worry about is an overly aggressive canopy.

I thought about that... Notice the word "around" in the poll. It allows sub 1 loadings. I am no expert, but the only time I have seen someone really ventrue below 1 enough to be noticed, it was a base canopy - and thus that option is on the list.