making it back/line of flight

[mrken 0]

Newb question:

On all of my tracking dives I have been flying perpendicular to the line of flight the entire time; consequently leading to opening balls-far away from the LZ.

I am mainly focusing on body position and practicing wingsuit style wave-off/deployments; wanted to toss out a couple ideas and get feedback as to their level of idiocy:

Would it be okay to track perpendicular for like a 10-15 count, then do a 180 and track for another 10-15, rinse and repeat til deploy time?

Or would it be okay to fly out perpendicular for awhile, achieving some horizontal sep. and then track parallel, but a distance away from the line of flight? I realize this option increases risk. I appreciate any feedback and will for sure ask a coach in rl when I get a chance too.

[The111 1]

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Or would it be okay to fly out perpendicular for awhile, achieving some horizontal sep. and then track parallel, but a distance away from the line of flight? I realize this option increases risk.

No offense, but what you just described as your second option (which you assume has more risk) is the best and universally recommended way to fly a pattern.

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Would it be okay to track perpendicular for like a 10-15 count, then do a 180 and track for another 10-15, rinse and repeat til deploy time?

You should never knowingly fly TOWARD jumprun after flying away from it. Where did you get this idea, and why do you think that seems ok? (I do not intend to be accusatory, but I'd like to promote some thought along the lines of "why"?)

Did you receive any sort of training before flying a wingsuit for the first time?

Think about it. Remember AFF... canopy patterns? We fly downwind, then cross-wind, the into the wind. Usually a left-hand pattern, but direction prescribed by specfic DZ. There are two reasons: (1) convention and (2) logic. What would you say if I suggested we eliminate downwind legs, and all set up just downind from the peas. Then from 2000ft all the way down to about 300ft, we just fly back and forth, crosswind, until it's time to turn into the wind. Does that sound like it would create an orderly flow of traffic? You need to know where others are, and others need to know where YOU are. If you are all zig-zagging back and forth in the same airspace, you're going to crash.

Back to wingsuits. You need to know where the freefallers are, and they need to know where you are. They do NOT want somebody zigzagging back and forth over their heads (and possibly into their canopy), and you cannot easily keep track of where the line of flight is, when you are doing that. Fly away from the flight-line, then turn and fly parallel to it. Until the end of the jump, without fail, the jumprun will remain where you left it - to your side, at a safe distance.

EDIT: I see now that you maybe were referring to tracking and not wingsuits. Same principal applies. Get on a tracking dive with people who know what they're doing. You'll learn 10 times more than you would by yourself anyway.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[mrken 0]

Well no offense but thats why I asked and said I was going to ask a coach/instructor in real life before attempting either route regardless.

In my head the first idea I was thinking that since im last out and had horizontal seperation already I thought that staying within sort of the same area would work; thanks for pointing out it wouldn't.

The pattern way you corrected me with seemed to have more risk to me because I started thinking about people drifting or tracking off during formations; I guess id just need to be sure of my distance through my references before turning 90.

Like I said I haven't done either method and have just been staying perpendicular; being new I just thought of it as staying in my pocket of space vs getting closer to others.

Thanks

Yeah not trying a wingsuit for long time; going to get a coach though when I do.

[VectorBoy 0]

In my head the first idea I was thinking that since im last out and had horizontal seperation already I thought that staying within sort of the same area would work; thanks for pointing out it wouldn't.

[The111 1]

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In my head the first idea I was thinking that since im last out and had horizontal seperation already I thought that staying within sort of the same area would work; thanks for pointing out it wouldn't.

In theory, I guess "staying in the same area" could work, but it would be very hard to ensure you were actually doing this. Basing it on eyesight would be impossible, and if even if you made sure to keep each leg of your zig-zag exactly the same amount of time, you wouldn't be able to guarantee you were covering the same amount of ground each time, and staying in your area.

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The pattern way you corrected me with seemed to have more risk to me because I started thinking about people drifting or tracking off during formations; I guess id just need to be sure of my distance through my references before turning 90.

The thing is, you can't be sure of your distance, but you can be sure of your altitude. If you exit at 13k, and track perpendicular until 9k, you've now tracked for 4k feet, and you are guaranteed to be further away from the line of flight that somebody who just tracks for 1000ft after their RW jump before pulling. Now if you KEEP flying in that same direction for a few thousand more feet (until pull time) as you said you were doing, you will end up very far away, as you figured out. But if you track now parallel to line of flight, you can actually open closer to the LZ than you were when you got out of the plane, and you are still a safe distance away from the line of flight, further than anybody else could be.

Good luck.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[The111 1]

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With the high performance of the newer designs even the tandems are below your deployment altitude before you can get near them, unless you dive down to them.

He's tracking... I thought he meant wingsuits at first too. The tandem masters (or anybody) are certainly not going to want somebody exiting behind them and tracking in circles.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[mrken 0]

Yeah I was mulling over in my head now and working a little calculus and I can see how it could create Dicey/Darwin situation for me; won't be doing that, it is high traffic here too.

Thanks guys.

[badenhop 0]

it is awesome swooping tandems from the other plane

==================================

I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[LouDiamond 1]

Just to be clear, what I have attached is for tracking, not wingsuiting. Attached are 2 possible ways you can track safely,the best bet is to check with people at your DZ on how they run the tracking dives there.

The first attachment shows how an entire plane load of trackers could conduct a tracking dive. This means no other skydivers, everyone on the plane is on the same tracking dive.

The second attachment shows how a small group of trackers could conduct a tracking dive after other skydivers have gotten out of the plane and have allowed enough horizontal seperation (time) betwen the the last skydiver and their group.


The process requires a bit more planning with the aircraft/DZ if your have aircraft in trail or on parallel jump runs but it is not impossible as it has been done safely at events such as WFFC and the Eloy holiday boogie in the past. This requires that the person organizing the dive fully understand when and how to impliment the right type of pattern to be flown based on the circumstances.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[OSOK 0]

I track a lot by myself on loads that have belly flyers, freeflyers, and tandems. I was always told to track perpendicular to jumprun, turn 180, the track back... and do this until pulltime. It makes a lot of sense to me because you're staying on your portion of space, jump run wise.

After more and more tracks, I hated stopping for the 180s... so I started tracking, and turning 180 while on a hard track. This helped me both with maneuvering and I didn't have to stop tracking for the 180.

Lately what I've been doing is just tracking as per the second pic on the above post. I'm very aware for where I am, and if needed, I'll open up a bit higher than planned if I have to just so I can make it back.

Sometimes they do jump run offset a bit from the wind direction. So, if the wind is coming from the E, and they do jumprun NE, then I'll track N so when I open I have the wind on my back to help me get back.

What has helped me a lot is paying close attention to the jumprun direction and just do what makes sense.

[Thijs 0]

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I was always told to track perpendicular to jumprun, turn 180, the track back... and do this until pulltime. It makes a lot of sense to me because you're staying on your portion of space, jump run wise.

No, you are not staying in your portion of space. It is very easy to be way of your space when you track away from jumprun and then back to it.

I do a lot of tracking myself. If I can, I exit last (if there are no tandems or AFF on the load) an fly a U-shaped pattern (upjumprun, cross, and downwind). Other wise I fly and L-shaped pattern (cross and downwind or upwind), but I never track back towards jumprun.

[dragon2 2]

The 180's is for learning how to track and for learning how to do delta too. It prevents newbies from tracking themselves to the next city. It's not meant for "tracking jumps".

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[MarkM 0]

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I track a lot by myself on loads that have belly flyers, freeflyers, and tandems. I was always told to track perpendicular to jumprun, turn 180, the track back... and do this until pulltime. It makes a lot of sense to me because you're staying on your portion of space, jump run wise.

It'd be really easy to drift into other people's airspace on the track back. Scott's 45 degree track I think would be ideal, but as a lowbie you may be pretty much stuck doing what others at your DZ tell you to do. You can't exactly go "Yeah, but this guy on the internet said I should do it this one way..."

When I was doing perpendicular and 180's back when I had 80 jumps I tried to make it a point to not come past half way back. That way I was at least still off the flight line. And since I was opening higher than most people and had a big canopy, I could make it back pretty easily.

Just be really aware of other people tracking on the plane.

[mrken 0]

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The second attachment shows how a small group of trackers could conduct a tracking dive after other skydivers have gotten out of the plane and have allowed enough horizontal seperation (time) betwen the the last skydiver and their group.

Followed it today and made it back to the LZ with enough time to follow a predictable landing pattern no problem, thanks! jump 100 yay!

[jakee 1,530]

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The second attachment shows how a small group of trackers could conduct a tracking dive after other skydivers have gotten out of the plane and have allowed enough horizontal seperation (time) betwen the the last skydiver and their group.

Followed it today and made it back to the LZ with enough time to follow a predictable landing pattern no problem, thanks! jump 100 yay!

Congrats!

The second hundred should go much easier than the first hundred - and then its wingsuit time!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?