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Ryan>What ? I think Matt an mccordia just finished saying they have ther Ratings because it means something to them so how are they feeling sorry for them selves
Quote
Jarno wrote this:
"At the moment, there isnt a boogie you can go to, without 75% of all attendees having some form of a wingsuit rating. Yet when you see most people fly, they cant even get a normal 2 way to fly together."
"But there's also a large bunch of people out there who didnt really earn that rating. And Im not even talking about an exam. Im just talking about having the skills as an instructor, which the rating they 'flash' indicates they have..."
Honestly he probably only let this little bit of negativity slip as a result of coming down off of a high from attending some really great wingsuit boogies this summer. kind of like a post pardom effect.
Ryan>How did you start your skydiving carreer ??? Did you pay for coach jumps to get you a b c and so on. Isnt this the same thing...Quote
No Ryan its not the same thing as AFF or AFFI or Tandem rating. I only paid for AFF and a coach for my a not my C,D
Ryan> Wingsuit Instructers are in the ealry stage and eventually it will be a uspa and Cspa regualtion. Every part of this sport started and ended up this way no ?????QuoteNo not needed it would have happend already if it was needed. It won't happen in the future if it continues to not be needed.
The111 1
QuoteI think Matt an mccordia just finished saying they have ther Ratings because it means something to them
I did not use the word "rating" (nor the concept) anywhere in my post.
www.WingsuitPhotos.com
mccordia 74
I blame it all on a bad childhood
Wanna see my kermit tatoo?
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
voodew1 0
Glen --- your just mad 'cuz your old and you saw my sack
I am a wingsuit instructor and I am proud of it - when I go to a boogie with all of my demo suits the chicks dig me and can hardly keep their pants on - thats why I got the rating. Well that and to piss off some big name BMCIs -- and that worked to.
I really don't know if I have ever charged for a FFC or my slot on the jump - and would do the same for anyone if they come to me --- I would like to think I can fly next to anyone but once I went to Moab and flew with Vectorboy and there was no way I could suck that bad and even thought about putting on a freefly suit to fly with him.
I will have to say that I feel getting some sort of instruction from some one who knows will make you jump much safer.
Glenn --- when you start bitchin it brings a tear to my eye.................Oh the good old days!!!!!!!!!
For all of you that don't know Glenn can fly a wingsuit pretty good (he is old and he is not an instructor so he can't be better than me) and I am just busting his balls
But do get one on one instruction from someone even if it means going to a different DZ for a day -- I am not saying you have to pay for it, there are a lot of flyers out there that will teach you for free - it will help and it will make it safer.
VD
The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid
I am a wingsuit instructor and I am proud of it - when I go to a boogie with all of my demo suits the chicks dig me and can hardly keep their pants on - thats why I got the rating. Well that and to piss off some big name BMCIs -- and that worked to.
I really don't know if I have ever charged for a FFC or my slot on the jump - and would do the same for anyone if they come to me --- I would like to think I can fly next to anyone but once I went to Moab and flew with Vectorboy and there was no way I could suck that bad and even thought about putting on a freefly suit to fly with him.
I will have to say that I feel getting some sort of instruction from some one who knows will make you jump much safer.
Glenn --- when you start bitchin it brings a tear to my eye.................Oh the good old days!!!!!!!!!
For all of you that don't know Glenn can fly a wingsuit pretty good (he is old and he is not an instructor so he can't be better than me) and I am just busting his balls
But do get one on one instruction from someone even if it means going to a different DZ for a day -- I am not saying you have to pay for it, there are a lot of flyers out there that will teach you for free - it will help and it will make it safer.
VD
The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid
Glenn --- when you start bitchin it brings a tear to my eye.................Oh the good old days!!!!!!!!!
I'm not bitching I'm amused that now that these guys have plenty of rated instructors to go around for everybody, which is what they wanted, they are unhappy with the quality of them. Its just comedy. They won't be happy until the have a rating for wingsuits administered by the european space agency.
sorry the newb will just shut up and let the big boys play haha must of misread everyones posts
JohanW 0
Not really. It'd be PhotoShopped anyway.QuoteI blame it all on a bad childhood
Wanna see my kermit tatoo?
Johan.
I am. I think.
I am. I think.
NSEMN8R 0
QuoteThe reality is that the governing body will not step in and most of us don't want them to.
I agree with everything you said except that.
The reality is, if the USPA thinks they can pull a bunch of money out of the skydiver's pockets for a new rating, they'll be all over it. With all of the "big names" that are pushing for it, it's only a matter of time.
With all of the "big names" that are pushing for it, it's only a matter of time.
There are big names in Wingsuiting? Fuck me!
I know there are fantastic flyers pushing the boundaries of human flight and designers advancing the state wingsuit design. But aren't they too busy with all of that on their plate?
And I thought all of the "ones" pushing for it don't really accomplish anything or make anything? They're not big names they are just little mouths that roar.
Buried 0
QuoteQuoteThe reality is that the governing body will not step in and most of us don't want them to.
I agree with everything you said except that.
The reality is, if the USPA thinks they can pull a bunch of money out of the skydiver's pockets for a new rating, they'll be all over it. With all of the "big names" that are pushing for it, it's only a matter of time.
If that happens, i then want to see ratings for FF, RW, CReW, skyboarding, etc instructors. makes sense. no reason why WS needs to be the only dicipline with a rating... not like it is harder or more dangerous than Crew or skyboarding.
Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?
... not like it is harder or more dangerous than Crew or skyboarding.
Zach the fine body of rated instructors would disagree with you at this point. Instructing in wingsuits is as hard as instructing a would be tandem master.......oh and managing a successful two way between to rated wingsuit instructors..... man thats a bitch of a challenge, apparently.
A USPA level wingsuit instructor rating will happen because Wingsuits are now banned in Italy or something like that and so many new people are getting hurt in wingsuits nowadays. But first our governing body will have to create the HP canopy instructor rating chief instructor and the air traffic landing pattern controller rating. First those tasks that need to be accomplished and then onto our burden since we wingsuiters are 40% of the total of the injurys/deaths in skydiving world wide, despite the fact we make up less than 5% of the total skydivers.
** Disclaimer**
"a lot of the unofficial 'reading material' available online is not always the best advice possible... "
This entire post is a direct testament to the statement above taken from the 14th post in this tread.
Adhering to the information available in the product manual will help the user achieve much better product satisfaction and safer flights.
Buried 0
QuoteInstructing in wingsuits is as hard as instructing a would be tandem master......
tandem ratings are do not come into play with what i said and they serve a purpose since they are held to be more responsible for a non-skydiver's life.
there are other 'teaching' ratings out there, just use those. For further reading on this subject, search for last yrs post I started about this
.Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?
QuoteSo if you are interested in WS would you take the course or read, read, read (as I have) and just go make a first flight yourself?
Positively not. In the beginning of this "modern" wingsuit era, you could not make a wingsuit jump built by BirdMan unless you had 500 jumps....period. It was not until Rantoul 2003 that we lowered that number to 350 for the WFFC and then, the next year, lowered it to 200 jumps (within 18 months) if you were trained by a BMI and flew with them on your first flight. Yes, in the beginning you could send a guy with 1000 jumps a demo suit, the flight manual, and expect him to do OK. No, there was never a time when BirdMan would sell a suit to a guy with 100 jumps and tell them it was OK to go for it. The people on here that would tell you differently are mistaken and just repeating rumors. The great majority of those people also didn't begin flying wingsuits until long after the BMI course was established.
In the beginning there simply were no suits "laying around" and for sale on the general market. The only way to demo one was to show up at an event where Jari and Robi were travelling showing off their creation. If you liked it, they would measure you and then get you a suit built.
Again, for you people who simply don't know any better, structure is always safer than a lack of it. The BMI program was established, however haphazard at first (prior to 2002), to prevent incidents like the fatality in Kansas where a young college student bought a second-hand suit online, lent it to a friend who got zero training, and that kid subsequently went in in a tangle of lines and canopy. Oh yeah, the kid also had just over 100 jumps.
I am simply over Glen's anti-establishment rants. I am not "the establishment". What I am is a life-long instructor with every rating available who just wants to keep people safe by offering them a proven, established way to get into the sport (including wingsuiting). I don't train 20 female Norwegian BASE jumpers with 30 jumps who offer me a blowjob and I don't train people to wingsuit with under 200 jumps.....ever. You fuckers do what you like, but get over your problem with "instructors" and people who actually do enough for the sport to acquire sponsors. You all sound like whiny bitches....seriously.
Chuck Blue
D-12501
AFF/SL/TM-I, PRO, S&TA, BMCI-4
Z-hills
Well-said Chuck.
It is our responsibility to uphold the highest level of safety while introducing our dicipline to people who have never tried it before. A lot of people still have the misconceived view that flying wingsuits is dangerous. By properly training new pilots and educating both wingsuiters & non-wingsuiters we can help lessen this ill view that so many people have about the sport that we enjoy so much.
-Chris-
It is our responsibility to uphold the highest level of safety while introducing our dicipline to people who have never tried it before. A lot of people still have the misconceived view that flying wingsuits is dangerous. By properly training new pilots and educating both wingsuiters & non-wingsuiters we can help lessen this ill view that so many people have about the sport that we enjoy so much.
-Chris-
WSI-6 / PFI-55
The Brothers Gray Wingsuit Academy
http://www.myspace.com/cgwingsuitpilot
http://www.myspace.com/thebrothersgray
The Brothers Gray Wingsuit Academy
http://www.myspace.com/cgwingsuitpilot
http://www.myspace.com/thebrothersgray
I am simply over Glen's anti-establishment rants. I am not "the establishment".
You fuckers do what you like, but get over your problem with "instructors" and people who actually do enough for the sport to acquire sponsors. You all sound like whiny bitches....seriously.
Chuck Blue
D-12501
AFF/SL/TM-I, PRO, S&TA, BMCI-4
Z-hills
You fuckers do what you like, but get over your problem with "instructors" and people who actually do enough for the sport to acquire sponsors. You all sound like whiny bitches....seriously.
Chuck Blue
D-12501
AFF/SL/TM-I, PRO, S&TA, BMCI-4
Z-hills
Actually I'm not making myself clear enough. I have posted before and I'll state again I'm actually more tolerant of the new Rated instructors, say than Jarno in this thread for example, than some other rated instructors that want more from the system that they are a part of. Are you aware that Jarno was the first one to post, in this thread, that things are not as right as they should be in the instructor ranks..... not me? So lets be clear I don't have a problem with instructors, I don't have a use for them but thats not a problem.
I for one am not delusional about there being some magical way to increase the instructors skills out there other than, in time, skills getting increased via experience. I will be the last guy to bash the new guys that try to become instructors and have been supportive of some who have. The whole governing body superseding the manufacturer rating theory will absolutely not make better flyers out of the current crop of instructors in the present time. Time will if they are still around.
I agree with your whiny bitch comment. In no other discipline/ forum do you hear " we need more governance" or "we need the government to step in" like we hear in this forum. Thats gay! I'm ashamed of you guys.
And in no other forum do we hear " I am the foundation of safety in this discipline, I am the cornerstone of performance, I bring the bling to the wing" , Like we do in this forum. Think about that one and get over yourselves!
Quote
QuoteInstructing in wingsuits is as hard as instructing a would be tandem master......
tandem ratings are do not come into play with what i said and they serve a purpose since they are held to be more responsible for a non-skydiver's life.
there are other 'teaching' ratings out there, just use those. For further reading on this subject, search for last yrs post I started about this.
You do know this entire reply to your post was sarcasm, right?
Positively not. In the beginning of this "modern" wingsuit era, you could not make a wingsuit jump built by BirdMan unless you had 500 jumps....period. It was not until Rantoul 2003 that we lowered that number to 350 for the WFFC and then, the next year, lowered it to 200 jumps (within 18 months) if you were trained by a BMI and flew with them on your first flight.
Chuck Blue
Chuck Blue
Bird man's Jari and Kim came out west in the summers of 01 and 02 to promote the product. They held first flight courses, they sold suits. I would venture to say that a goodly sum of the attendees had less than 500 jumps........ more than 200 yes .........but gauranteably less than 500. Manifest was overseeing events in both cases and would not allow jumpers with less than the required jumps attend. So its safe to say 200 was OK with bird-man ( with instruction ) at that time, at least out west.
By 03 you could get an S3 from BM with a little over 200 jumps.
BY 04 Robert left and that was a rebirth of an era.
And knowing you a bit better, I believe you are definately part those trying to further the dicipline the right way. critisizing (tongue in cheek or not) everyone who does not share you vision of how it should be...
and I guess thats mostly what puts you off of the whole 'official' instructors thing...or did some instructor do bad things to you in the basement or touch you in the private place...its ok to be scared
Don't be fooled I'm not doing anything to promote the discipline now and not pretending to. There are guys that do way more work in that regard. My hat is off to them.
We did in the past do FFC and loan spare suits all for free. Then we realized that such a life was for suckers and now we just fly. In the past we got bashed by the factory hags that didn't think we should be doing it without a rating. The ones that didn't pay for their own suits. We payed for ours and all of our demo suits too. The consumer paid for the hags free suit. We got shit on by the factory reps for mentoring without paying for a rating while supporting the manufacturer with the purchase of more suits. The reps didn't pay for anything, few of the reps lifted a finger for the sport. I don't support that manufacturer anymore. Now we don't care who is an instructor or not.
My predictions, or visions as you say, of how it will be are personal, not for sale, and I don't give a fuck who aggrees or doesn't, I could be very wrong with my predictions BTW. As it goes no intervention is currently needed. More accidents and injuries and you have it your way. Will you have a celebration if the governing bodies come breathing down your leg wing? Sounds like that is what you want.
I don't care about the instructor effect. In the past we were put off by some of the dialogs that went on because we were not rated and the way we were treated. It was funny then and now every once in a while. But nobody is picking on the unrated mentors anymore. You guys are now picking on yourselves. You say the factory level system is flawed and needs revamping, I was told it was perfectly safe and that we were not over and over and over again. It better be safe now there are rated instructors enough for everybody.
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