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Heffro1 0
Jason, sorry to bring this up as I see this is a sore subject for you but you start your post saying we should not leave anyone out and you end it saying that people need to be cut so which is it?
The simple fact is we are not leaving anyone out, they have a whole year and plenty of skills camps to get there. It is entirely up to each person how much the let themselves improve.
This is just one of the many sub diciplines of wingsuit flying and if your not keen on it you don't have to show. Perhaps without you we will only get 70 is this what you are worried about.
I can see how flocking could be looked at as boring but not everyone shares your point of view (no offense but thank god they don't)
or this forum would be over loaded with whiney bitchy remarks
And I would love to see team Alien Nation a part of the flock.
At least come to one of the events we have planned and fly with us, against us, under us or any way you want :)
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makes sense that big way gets build up piece by piece.
building from the back is also an interesting concept, these two events could be the beginning or a revolution in big way organzing, or at least im hoping it will be.
chuck - keen to build that back fly formation with you...we doing similiar stuff at the acro comp in april.
~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~
building from the back is also an interesting concept, these two events could be the beginning or a revolution in big way organzing, or at least im hoping it will be.
chuck - keen to build that back fly formation with you...we doing similiar stuff at the acro comp in april.
~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~
QuoteDidn't want one nor would I attend even if I got one --- bigways are for egos driven crack heads -- I assume you'll be there
Nah, not my cup o' tea.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
mccordia 74
I also agree with Matt and Chuck..
Though Im 100% up for giving it all we got on both events, I too believe the current diveplans are a bit too ambituous for (what I think) is currently possible.
The freeflyers didnt just wake up one morning, and went from a 10 way to a 69 way.
And in wingsuits, aside from some nicely flown 9 ways, there haven been any true completed big formations. And the '4th row' is also something we've been discussing here. The relative movement just gets too big after that point, and people are often more busy 'riding waves' then they are flying a slot.
I have some diveplans I made, with rows of stingers on the side.
Which allows for a formation that doesnt grow beyond 4 to 5 rows. And allows for some movement, without immidiately f*cking up people flying behind you. I may post those later in a seperate thread, as the discussion 'what formation/size is too big' seems like a good one..
I would rather focus on setting some 16 to max 22 way formations with several groups, and not try for anything bigger yet.
Skillswise, its going to give a lot of people the experience they need for bigger formations we can aim for at a later point.
We should focus less on setting a 'record', and focus more on working towards building the skills needed to fly one at both events..
And trust me..Ill be flying balls to the walls at both events, trying not to f*ck up, and keep up with the rest to make the prettiest/best formations possible. But (and I hope Im proven wrong next fall!) I think slighly more realistic goals/formations wouldnt be that bad an idea. And will most likely also help a lot, in getting formation flying accepted by the FAI as a proper dicipline (if that is what everyone wants of course)
Though Im 100% up for giving it all we got on both events, I too believe the current diveplans are a bit too ambituous for (what I think) is currently possible.
The freeflyers didnt just wake up one morning, and went from a 10 way to a 69 way.
And in wingsuits, aside from some nicely flown 9 ways, there haven been any true completed big formations. And the '4th row' is also something we've been discussing here. The relative movement just gets too big after that point, and people are often more busy 'riding waves' then they are flying a slot.
I have some diveplans I made, with rows of stingers on the side.
Which allows for a formation that doesnt grow beyond 4 to 5 rows. And allows for some movement, without immidiately f*cking up people flying behind you. I may post those later in a seperate thread, as the discussion 'what formation/size is too big' seems like a good one..
I would rather focus on setting some 16 to max 22 way formations with several groups, and not try for anything bigger yet.
Skillswise, its going to give a lot of people the experience they need for bigger formations we can aim for at a later point.
We should focus less on setting a 'record', and focus more on working towards building the skills needed to fly one at both events..
And trust me..Ill be flying balls to the walls at both events, trying not to f*ck up, and keep up with the rest to make the prettiest/best formations possible. But (and I hope Im proven wrong next fall!) I think slighly more realistic goals/formations wouldnt be that bad an idea. And will most likely also help a lot, in getting formation flying accepted by the FAI as a proper dicipline (if that is what everyone wants of course)
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
MarkM 0
There's two personalities in skydiving. The guys that do it just for shits, sort of a fun playtime where they don't have to deal with the stress of normal life, and then there's the goal driven self performance achievers.
Things like record attempts really draws in the achievers. It gives them a specific goal to shoot for and keeps them interested in that part of the sport. I think well organized, disciplined, and yes even exclusionary events like this are what draws those people in and keeps them interested in the sport. It's hardly a bad thing and kudos for Scott, Jeff and everyone else involved in putting stuff like this together for those people. I know it's a lot of work.
But whether or not wingsuiting becomes entirely that is very much up to everyone who's in it. It's a young enough discipline that anyone can really shape a part of it. Just put whatever it is together, give it a name, and work your ass off promoting it.
Things like record attempts really draws in the achievers. It gives them a specific goal to shoot for and keeps them interested in that part of the sport. I think well organized, disciplined, and yes even exclusionary events like this are what draws those people in and keeps them interested in the sport. It's hardly a bad thing and kudos for Scott, Jeff and everyone else involved in putting stuff like this together for those people. I know it's a lot of work.
But whether or not wingsuiting becomes entirely that is very much up to everyone who's in it. It's a young enough discipline that anyone can really shape a part of it. Just put whatever it is together, give it a name, and work your ass off promoting it.
kallend 2,026
Quote*** A 71-way in any discipline is really freaking serious bidness. You guys will learn from the bigway RW crowd, either the easy way or the hard way.
Dave
What he said!
Deploying around and being in the air with 100, 200, or more other canopies, is a BIG deal. Approaching a formation from multiple aircraft in heavy traffic with closing speeds high enough that a collision will kill you is a BIG deal.
The issues in a big way generally do not revolve around being the hottest prima donna flyer, they revolve around safety, awareness, patience, reliability and willingness to be a contributing member of a team.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,026
QuoteI also agree with Matt and Chuck..
Though Im 100% up for giving it all we got on both events, I too believe the current diveplans are a bit too ambituous for (what I think) is currently possible.
The freeflyers didnt just wake up one morning, and went from a 10 way to a 69 way.
And in wingsuits, aside from some nicely flown 9 ways, there haven been any true completed big formations. And the '4th row' is also something we've been discussing here. The relative movement just gets too big after that point, and people are often more busy 'riding waves' then they are flying a slot.
Well, there's something to be learned from the RW bigway crowd here. If you reference the person next to you, and he/she references the person next to them, etc... all the way back to the base you have a sure recipe for waves, since all errors and corrections accumulate. If everyone directly references the base then errors don't accumulate. However, once you get a few rows away it becomes very difficult to see the base and ignore any movements going on next to you. It's easy to fly relative to someone 6ft away from you, and very hard to fly with precision relative to a base that's 50' away from you.
So to get back to your point, the "4th Row" phenomenon likely has as much to do with big formation dynamics as it does with the skill of the participants. The RW (and vRW) folks have found that some formation designs are more prone to instabilities than others. This is undoubtedly true of WS formations too, but at this point we simply don't have the empirical knowledge to know the details.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
If you reference the person next to you, and he/she references the person next to them, etc... all the way back to the base you have a sure recipe for waves, since all errors and corrections accumulate. If everyone directly references the base then errors don't accumulate
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exactly, I 've been thinking that, you just have to have a bit of a gap to let the person "in front" of you "wave" but if you in the 3rd or 4th row were not moving relative to the base there would be much less disrupteve movement
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exactly, I 've been thinking that, you just have to have a bit of a gap to let the person "in front" of you "wave" but if you in the 3rd or 4th row were not moving relative to the base there would be much less disrupteve movement
Life is a series of wonderful opportunities,
brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.
tonysuits.com
brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.
tonysuits.com
Quotethank god they don't, or this forum would be over loaded with whiney bitchy remarks
You must be reading a different forum than me...
Ted
Like a giddy school girl.
I agree with you, although I think wingsuiting as a discipline - and the skills of the flyers - is still evolving rapidly.
The truth is, flying "fourth row" is really quite hard; flocks "breathe" and that oscillation gets quite significant the further back you go. Not only do you need excellent flyers in the base that really don't move, but you need excellent flyers at the back too. What often happens is that the less experienced flyers get the back slots because, if they don't make it in, it has less impact on the formation as a whole. This isn't ego-driven, just practical whilst we (as a group) are still working it out.
When we've got 70+ good precision flyers (which is v different from great wingsuit BASE pilots, slow-fallers etc) then we'll make it. We all know the wedge is the most likely formation to work as it has the most points of reference to keep people still, yet has a single base.
That said, this is still a rapidly evolving discipline - and there's no harm in trying stuff out... providing it's done safely and the organisers involved are allowed by all to take the lead, with some discipline in the "ranks".
The truth is, flying "fourth row" is really quite hard; flocks "breathe" and that oscillation gets quite significant the further back you go. Not only do you need excellent flyers in the base that really don't move, but you need excellent flyers at the back too. What often happens is that the less experienced flyers get the back slots because, if they don't make it in, it has less impact on the formation as a whole. This isn't ego-driven, just practical whilst we (as a group) are still working it out.
When we've got 70+ good precision flyers (which is v different from great wingsuit BASE pilots, slow-fallers etc) then we'll make it. We all know the wedge is the most likely formation to work as it has the most points of reference to keep people still, yet has a single base.
That said, this is still a rapidly evolving discipline - and there's no harm in trying stuff out... providing it's done safely and the organisers involved are allowed by all to take the lead, with some discipline in the "ranks".
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BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13
No shit??? I was at all 3 of those events and I didn't see anything that scared me at any of them. At those big ways at 3.0 I was really surprised at how smoothly everything went. There were a lot of lower experience flyers at those events that did just fine.
I think the "elitist" mentality sucks, but I guess it will be necessary if you want to see a tight, diciplined,slot specific etc... big way. It doesn't make me feel alienated at all though. Even if I was qualified to be on these record attempts, I probably wouldn't put myself in a position where I might "fuck up the jump" for 70 other people anyways. I'll probably show up at some of the skills camps just for fun and if there ever is a "World Record Zoo flock" I'll definitely be there for that. I really wish everyone that participates next November the best of luck though.
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