boyd38off 0 #1 January 28, 2008 Here's the deal... There are about 4-5 of us who regularly flock together. For the most part, we're pretty good at keeping the flocks pretty tight when we exit out of our regular jump ship - an Otter. The nice big door, higher tail, and slower speed make for super-tight exits where everyone ends up in flight with not a lot of space between us. We usually pick someone as base, usually the fastest faller, and put him out anywhere in the exit order. This has worked well, but.... This past weekend we were jumping out of the King Air and everything went to hell! We tried different people as base, putting the base out first, putting the base out last, but no matter what we did, we were all so widely spaced that we spent the first 20+ seconds just getting everyone back together. I know we will never get exits as clean and tight out of the K.A. as the Otter, but there's got to be a better way of organizing this to get the flock together quicker! So... for those who know, what's the best way to get the flock together the quickest out of a King Air? Base out first? Last? Should the last guys out be trying to get to the first guys out or vice versa? Throw out some pointers that work and give us the easy way to do this!Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out and shouting, ".... holy crap....what a ride!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RJmoney 0 #2 January 28, 2008 make tdog go last, you know he's gonna funnel anyway. so hopefully he'll funnel down to where everybody else is.word to your mother, RJ$$ BASE 1117 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpnaked69 0 #3 January 28, 2008 While RJ-Bankruptcy has a point...maybe the better way to deal with this is to not fly as hard out of the door. Maybe consider getting the flock to exit in more of a lean lawn-dart body position, wings totally collapsed with a slight arch until well clear of the prop blast. First person out begins flying all-out, second person cuts back a little, third person cuts back a little more, and so on until the last person gets out and should be met by the rest of the flock and then they start flying, too. This means you dont start actually flying hard until that last person is out and totally clear of the prop blast and off the hill but it should cut back on your wait time. This is what we used to do before the big bad otter. Can't wait for it to be fixed. Not sure how we lasted so long without it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #4 January 28, 2008 The KA that I usually jump only has pegs, no floater bar. We can only get two people outside. Using the exit described above will help. Unfortunately, the high ground speed and small door of the KA make it less than friendly as a WS AC. 50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #5 January 28, 2008 Quote Unfortunately, the high ground speed and small door of the KA make it less than friendly as a WS AC. KA's scare the shit out of me. High exit speed, low rear stabilizer... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #6 January 28, 2008 Doing a 2 way isn't that bad (one rear float and the other in the door frame). Both exit at the same time. Keep everything collapsed until you see the horizontal stabilizer pass overhead. That only takes a second or two then pop the wings. Even from rear float, have never come close to the HS. But if the flock starts getting bigger with people rushing to get out the door, then I get a bit nervous of someone forgetting to keep the wings collapsed. 50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #7 January 29, 2008 Since faster airspeeds and exiting out the small door seems to be an issue on a KA, have everyone that isn't able to face the line of flight do back flips out the door. Have the base flier fly 90 off the line of flight almost right out the door with the other 2 that are able to exit facing the relative wind. The rest will get there faster when not having to worry about getting ther wings square to the line of flight as they exit, and will not have to even worry about the HS at all. You'll exit faster when not having to do a 180 when exiting, but instead just a side step to the right. Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #8 January 29, 2008 A back flip in the same manner you'd do a gainer from a Skyvan (more or less?) Most of my jumps are from a KA. I think I'd be more, rather than less worried doing a backflip in a WS (haven't been able to jump the KA since getting my new WS) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #9 January 29, 2008 QuoteA back flip in the same manner you'd do a gainer from a Skyvan (more or less?) Yes. Holding your wings straight out in front of you as you exit. Tip your head back and as you see the ground, bring them out and fly down the hill and to your right at the formation. Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RJmoney 0 #10 January 29, 2008 that is the sweetest solution i've heard to the lotsa people KA problem ever.word to your mother, RJ$$ BASE 1117 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buffdiver 0 #11 January 29, 2008 To build on Boyd's original question. I don't think the quickness of us getting out (as far as time between flyers) is as much as a problem as far as order of exit. The stability issues out the door any of us had did not really have and effect on the separation. So here is the question. All of you that have experience flying big way flocks, What is the exit order or, when does the Base go out and according to that, what is the best way for the rest in the group to fly in order to get together as quickly as possible? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #12 January 29, 2008 Quote So here is the question. All of you that have experience flying big way flocks, What is the exit order or, when does the Base go out and according to that, what is the best way for the rest in the group to fly in order to get together as quickly as possible? Base can exit from 1st to 6th out of the plane. Many think flying base is easy and you most always have to be out 1st. Flying base takes having awareness of getting down to an area where the first few flockers in the formation can build on you, then setting a constant glide and fall rate without changing. I've seen many people try and pull off a good base without success. It can be like your doing a solo out there, so many dont offer to take on the task. www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #13 January 29, 2008 Quote Quote So here is the question. All of you that have experience flying big way flocks, What is the exit order or, when does the Base go out and according to that, what is the best way for the rest in the group to fly in order to get together as quickly as possible? Base can exit from 1st to 6th out of the plane. Many think flying base is easy and you most always have to be out 1st. Flying base takes having awareness of getting down to an area where the first few flockers in the formation can build on you, then setting a constant glide and fall rate without changing. I've seen many people try and pull off a good base without success. It can be like your doing a solo out there, so many dont offer to take on the task. Base out first doesn't seem an optimum solution to me, any more than it would be on 10-way speed. I'd be inclined to put the base out about 1/3 the way through the exit order. As far as timing is concerned, every 1/5 of a second delay between exits will add about 1 second to the time in the air needed to get to the formation (rule of thumb based on observation). So if you string your exits out over 5 seconds it will take about 25 seconds to get together assuming everyone knows what they are doing.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #14 January 29, 2008 Base can exit from 1st to 6th out of the plane. Many think flying base is easy and you most always have to be out 1st. Flying base takes having awareness of getting down to an area where the first few flockers in the formation can build on you, then setting a constant glide and fall rate without changing. I've seen many people try and pull off a good base without success. It can be like your doing a solo out there, so many dont offer to take on the task. Quote Base out first doesn't seem an optimum solution to me, any more than it would be on 10-way speed. I'd be inclined to put the base out about 1/3 the way through the exit order. Read my comment again, John. We are talking KA in this case, so I wouldnt put base out any more then 3rd. And if its a larger person, it will take them even more time to get through the small door and exit cleanly. Either way the King Air door absolutely sucks for doing multiple ws exits fast and clean. Quote As far as timing is concerned, every 1/5 of a second delay between exits will add about 1 second to the time in the air needed to get to the formation (rule of thumb based on observation). So if you string your exits out over 5 seconds it will take about 25 seconds to get together assuming everyone knows what they are doing. My observation says this is a rare occasion......www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #15 January 29, 2008 Quote QuoteA back flip in the same manner you'd do a gainer from a Skyvan (more or less?) Yes. Holding your wings straight out in front of you as you exit. Tip your head back and as you see the ground, bring them out and fly down the hill and to your right at the formation. Ed One more time for the slow people just so I'm clear; Face straight out from door/90 to jump run, straight out gainer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #16 January 29, 2008 I always prefer putting the Base out last. Having everyone fly 'up' to the base ensures people are coming into their slot in the correct order, without people crossing eachother in opposing directions. The people who exit first will have some catching up to do, but if the rest of the flyers do their work, they'll have built a complete formation to just easy into by that time.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #17 January 29, 2008 Quote One more time for the slow people just so I'm clear; Face straight out from door/90 to jump run, straight out gainer? No, that will probably get you into a side spin.... Side stepping out the door with your back to the prop blast.www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #18 January 29, 2008 QuoteI always prefer putting the Base out last. Having everyone fly 'up' to the base ensures people are coming into their slot in the correct order, without people crossing eachother in opposing directions. The people who exit first will have some catching up to do, but if the rest of the flyers do their work, they'll have built a complete formation to just easy into by that time. You guys jump King Air's over there?www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #19 January 29, 2008 Quote Quote One more time for the slow people just so I'm clear; Face straight out from door/90 to jump run, straight out gainer? No, that will probably get you into a side spin.... Side stepping out the door with your back to the prop blast. That's kinda what I thought, which is why I was asking. Thank you for clarifying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #20 January 29, 2008 Quote Quote As far as timing is concerned, every 1/5 of a second delay between exits will add about 1 second to the time in the air needed to get to the formation (rule of thumb based on observation). So if you string your exits out over 5 seconds it will take about 25 seconds to get together assuming everyone knows what they are doing. My observation says this is a rare occasion...... Ooooohhhh!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
