L_M 0 #26 March 6, 2008 Quote Quote So I went FUCK and without hesitation I hooked a low right turn, 4) Saw a straight tree line in front of me and hooked an even lower left turn I was happy the way I handeld it Glad you lived, but I really don't think all of the above should appear in the same post Low turns kill m'kay. That's true, BUT 1) I don't know what you would do but when I see a powerline very close underneath me I don't think the quick decision of clearing that shit is a bad idea. In a situation like that there is no time to slowely move yourself to the right, it's a quick reaction or get zapped. As I said there were a lot of obstacles, the small garden was surounded by high trees. 2) An impact with a tree after toggeling a quick 90° turn can kill aswell. I'd rather absorb the shock on my side than flat in the face and on the chest. After the left turn just before impact I pulled my right toggle down to the same height as my left one trying to slow down just a bit so my body wouldn't have that downwards slam effect. It all comes down to the situation, how you handle it and LUCK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arai 0 #27 March 6, 2008 it sounds like it wasn't really luck that got you out of that spot as much as it was poor planning on your part that put you into it. its good that you now see the importance of proper flight planning. Take care to plan the things that are within your control so that hopefully you only have to use your luck when unavoidable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
L_M 0 #28 March 6, 2008 that's the conclusion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #29 March 6, 2008 It all comes down to the situation, how you handle it and LUCK I agree with DSE: The better prepared you are, the luckier you are. Your story is awesome. From one lucky guy to another, all I can say is, 'Nice landing!' If you didn't get hurt, you did it right. Not to say that you did everything right getting there... Thanks for your story, and everybody that has offered advice on this subject. Mark, I thought I should never fly over jump run, even though there is a lot of vertical separation. Isn't that a rule or something? There were 2 tandems on that load but I only saw one after I opened. It was far away. But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #30 March 6, 2008 Quote It all comes down to the situation, how you handle it and LUCK If you handle a given situation well, you'll usually find that luck has far less effect on the outcome than it will if you handle it badly. Funny thatDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
L_M 0 #31 March 7, 2008 hehe that's true, but it's a relevant factor regardless I don't want to be the guy that goes "luck had nothing to do with it, I handled it well, nothing could have gotten me" If you're oblivious to the luck factor you think you're invincible, and that would be the biggest mistake anybody could make. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisgray 0 #32 March 7, 2008 Quote Quote I feel it is best to not overwhelm the student with these things on their first WS jump. Introduce those on the following jumps once they demonstrate the 3 basics I listed. I'm going to completely agree with Zeemax here. If it overwhelms the student with the responsibility to tell the pilot there are wingsuits on board, or if they should exit or not when there is bad visibility, your student is clearly NOT ready to fly a wingsuit. IMHO..... Ed & Macca, I can certainly see your view point and I can't really argue with you. Although, you guys and I both know that you can take an accomplished skydiver with thousands of jumps who is heads-up and aware in all his/her normal discipline jumps and put that person in a WS and suddenly they become uncoordinated, clumsy, forgetful, and overwhelmed by the situation. Part of what I have to do on a FFC is to babysit the student to make sure that they don't forget the simple stuff like: put your helmet on, where are your googles, esc. Anyone who has taught a lot of FFC students knows it can be overwhelming to the student. Why overload them to the point they can't perform well on their first WS flight and then they walk away discouraged. We don't want that. So, even though I have covered every aspect of WS safety in the class room briefing, (such as talking to manifest, the pilot, and other jumpers on the load) I want them to focus on the basics of the WS flight on the first jump. Again these are: 1) Clean Exit, 2) Fly the flight plan, 3) Clean Deployment. I certain expect them to perform other tasks but if they don't do those 3 things then I don't pass them to the next progression jump...period! During the debrief you can review all the basic training, access their skill, and decide whether they are safe to fly alone or not. If repeated coach jumps are needed then take them up again. If they need to digress back to tracking suit jumps then do that. I want student progression that keeps them safe, happy, and most importantly wanting to fly WS a lot more. Ed and Macca, don't take this as arguing. I am just elaborating on my opinion from earlier. We all have our own teaching style. Mine is KISS or Keep It Simple Stupid. To get back squarely on the topic of this thread, YES flight planning and execution is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT on any WS jump even your first one. If you can't navigate yourself then stop flying WS until you get coaching on it.WSI-6 / PFI-55 The Brothers Gray Wingsuit Academy http://www.myspace.com/cgwingsuitpilot http://www.myspace.com/thebrothersgray Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeemax 0 #33 March 7, 2008 Quote Quote Quote So I went FUCK and without hesitation I hooked a low right turn, 4) Saw a straight tree line in front of me and hooked an even lower left turn I was happy the way I handeld it Glad you lived, but I really don't think all of the above should appear in the same post Low turns kill m'kay. That's true, BUT 1) I don't know what you would do but when I see a powerline very close underneath me I don't think the quick decision of clearing that shit is a bad idea. In a situation like that there is no time to slowely move yourself to the right, it's a quick reaction or get zapped. As I said there were a lot of obstacles, the small garden was surounded by high trees. 2) An impact with a tree after toggeling a quick 90° turn can kill aswell. I'd rather absorb the shock on my side than flat in the face and on the chest. After the left turn just before impact I pulled my right toggle down to the same height as my left one trying to slow down just a bit so my body wouldn't have that downwards slam effect. It all comes down to the situation, how you handle it and LUCK Learn flat turns and practice PLF's - both could have helped in your situation, and for the future. Search some of Bilvons posts, he has some great advice for tight landings with things happening at the last moment. While I agree luck does play a small role in survival, you should never overlook skill. Often things you do under pressure happen sub-conciously from your skill base without you realising, and could be considered as 'luck'. Without the skill base, the luck runs out...Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
