Wingsuit Instructor Rating and USPA

[base200 0]

There is a point at which someone has skills that qualify them to instruct. Where that point is (I believe) cannot be qualified.***

But isn't that what a rating tries to do: qualify? It says, look, NOW this person is "qualified" to teach. So it seems you agree that a ws rating fails in what it attempts to do?

[DSE 5]

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There is a point at which someone has skills that qualify them to instruct. Where that point is (I believe) cannot be qualified.***

But isn't that what a rating tries to do: qualify? It says, look, NOW this person is "qualified" to teach. So it seems you agree that a ws rating fails in what it attempts to do?

I believe it currently fails, yes. For me personally, if I want wingsuit instruction, I know who I'm going to, and I don't know if that person has a rating or not. I just know that they're very good. But for seeking an FFC, keeping in mind that there aren't a lot of wingsuiters in our area, I'm first looking for a person that has a rating, regardless of how he/she may achieve/obtain that rating.

Sometimes I think many people forget that not everyone has access to Zhlls, Elsinore, or other large DZs filled with wingsuit instructors. To my knowledge, we only have a couple rated instructors in Utah for example, and only one at my local DZ. And he is the instructor I went to for my FFC. As have most WS folks in our area. I don't know if he received his BMI over a beer or over a training course, and I don't really care, he does a good job regardless of rating. But, he's also an AFFI, TI, etc. so he was qualified to teach before he rec'd his WS ratings.

Until Birdman, Tony, and PF really get together on this concept however, it'll probably never receive the respect the rating deserves.

[VectorBoy 0]

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You are wrong, Glen. I was at CK for a POPS meet the ddayy Adam Rosen made his 500th jumpp. He had been on the monkeyclaw “team” roster for two yyears. The only person in that organization who had real skills was Heath Richardson. They all sucked in competition when they went to nationals.


On your other topic, there are two of us at Z hills with over 2000 wingsuit flights.

Simply amazing! I don't know Adam but Heath has what, 10,000 FF jumps? Most of the well known FF guys like Omar,Curtis from Eloy, Alchemy, the guys from what was the flyboyz all had in that neighborhood of jumps.

I doubt you could be a middle of the week load organizer at some of the bigger DZs that offer it with just 500 jumps. So the claw sucked at nationals, But you are proving my point for me, why should anyone expect to pay for a 500 jump wonder?

Oh and BTW I would have figured there were more of you at Zhills with coach worthy jump numbers experience than just 2 as you are the guys that do it all the time.

[kallend 2,026]

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Oh the horror! You might have to take the same course as everyone else if you want a rating! How awful! USPA SUX!

The teaching skills part of the coach course is repetitive to anyone that's read the coach section of the IRM too... I think I had to come to the course with the written test completed. Then we spent an entire day learning the material on the test that we'd already passed. That was... fun.
Dave

So you think the FAA is wrong?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[diablopilot 2]

I think the FAA doesn't teach anyone how to skydive.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[kallend 2,026]

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I think the FAA doesn't teach anyone how to skydive.

The FAA doesn't teach anyone how to fly either, and USPA doesn't teach skydiving. However, FAA's rules for both activities have the force of law behind them.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[base200 0]

I got this by private email. Read it and see if this sounds like a good course. Is this person qualified? He's charging $80 a jump.

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If you are interested in Wingsuit Instruction –a Phoenix-Fly Instructor, will be at our DZ …. This is a basic instructional First Flight Course(FFC) for anyone qualified to make their introductory wingsuit jump. If demand is high, we will offer classes and additional coaching as well. Suits will be available for additional flights if not being used for FFCs.

Cost for the course is $40.00. This includes your course instruction, suit rental for the first flight and a video debrief by the instructor. The student will cover the cost of slot for themselves and the instructor. After your first flight, suit rental is $10/jump. The course and rental charges will be paid directly to the instructor and you can do this thru the dropzone. You can call us at . . . or email us to make a reservation for the course. Do not hesitate to contact us with any questions or concerns.


The instructor also stated that he would be happy to provide a general safety briefing about WS to whoever wants it. Knowledge is a wonderful tool so if you are interested in this class, let us know!!!!



Requirements to make a Wingsuit First Flight and suggested gear type to be used or avoided.

Experience
200 jumps within the last 18 months. If student is just coming back after the winter break, they should make at least one regular jump to shake the cobwebs off prior to putting on a Wingsuit.

Most important requirement, - listens and wants to have fun.

Gear:
Required-
Wrist mount altimeter and audible

Suggested-
More of a docile verses HP canopy. A canopy that flies straight even with line twists is best. Canopies that have to be flown through deployment(Stilettos, Katanas, Velos, etc) are not advised.
Throw out PC. Pull out PC not advised. If you have a bungy PC, bungy line must be removed/untied.
AADs and RSLs suggested.
Harness leg strap bungy removed.
The Prodigy2 WS connects to the laces of the shoe. Tevas not suggested.

We will have a medium, large, and XL Prodigy2 suit for the course. They are adjustable. We should be able to accommodate students ranging from 5'4", 120lb up to 6'4", 230lb.

And those making their "FIRST" flight, bring a case of something frosty to pay off your Beerable offense.

Here is some background on the instructor:

Started AFF Nov 2004
Received coach rating Nov 2005 with 190 jumps
Took First Flight Course in 2005 with 210 jumps.
D license holder with just over 700 jumps, 200 as WS jumps.

[The111 1]

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I got this by private email. Read it and see if this sounds like a good course. Is this person qualified? He's charging $80 a jump.

Here is some background on the instructor:

Started AFF Nov 2004
Received coach rating Nov 2005 with 190 jumps
Took First Flight Course in 2005 with 210 jumps.
D license holder with just over 700 jumps, 200 as WS jumps.

"Qualified" and "$80 per jump" have nothing to do with each other.

And as to the guy, he could be qualified, he could not. When I had 400 skydives (200 WS) I took up a couple dozen students at WFFC as a BMI. Most of them are still jumping wingsuits now. I think they'd tell you I did ok. Does this mean that # is ok? Not necessarily. It's not my call to make. But if the USPA wanted to make a call on how many jumps/flights you needed to have to take wingsuit students, you can bet I would obey that number. But right now that doesn't exist as far as I know, so both students and instructors have to use their best judgment (which they should always be using anyway, even when numerical limits are in place!).

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[monkycndo 0]

Matt, I was one of your students at Eloy in '05. I think you did just fine.

And regarding the question in base200's post. I am the instructor providing the FFC in question. Those that know how I fly and coach (including several WS I/Es) can provide you with their opinion as to whether I am qualified. I guess you will have to take the course to see if it is worth it.

Hope to see you there.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[base200 0]

Hi monkycndo,

Thanks for letting me know. So are you going to charge close to $90 for one jump?

[voodew1 0]

I don't make that much off an AFF jump -- with instruction and video debrief ---- so I would have to say it is to high of a price

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[bodypilot1 0]

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I don't make that much off an AFF jump -- with instruction and video debrief ---- so I would have to say it is to high of a price

Thats because the drop zone makes money off of you working for them.
What is the price your drop zone charges an AFF student?

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[yeyo 1]

They way I understand, you are charging $40 and yout slot. That includes the instruction, the suit and the video debrief. I think that's reasonable.
I paid $20 and the instructor slot, without video and with my suit.

HISPA #93
DS #419.5

[voodew1 0]

185.00 two instructor jump
145.00 one instructor

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[monkycndo 0]

Cost is $40 for instruction, suit rental and video debrief. I paid about this much 2 years ago at Eloy. I feel I got my monies worth. The cost of the slot is determined by and paid to the DZ. I'm not sure what they are charging. Between wear and tear on two suits that I paid for, my rig, camera, plus pack job, this is not a huge money maker. I could make more flipping burgers. I got my rating because I like to coach and enjoy the idea of bringing new birds into the flock. I'm not sponsored by any manufacturer. Hopefully, the cost of the course will eventually pay for the 3 demo suits I bought and maybe leave a little money for post beer light activities. Kudos to those that can offer free FFCs.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[bodypilot1 0]

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185.00 two instructor jump
145.00 one instructor

2 slots= $44
student gear rental=$25
Instructor pay= $35

So the DZ is making $41 off of you for each AFF jump, with you working for them, right?

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[voodew1 0]

That would be correct but it seems the DZ is not making anything off the wingsuit jump or instruction other than slots

Figured that way instruction plus suit rental $40
2 slots $44

Cost to the EXPERIENCED jumper $84.00

sounds a little high to me ---- How much do you charge total with slots Ed?

And for the record I don't charge because I can --- Skydiving is my hobby not my job ----- and teaching people to skydive is different than teaching experienced jumpers to fly a wingsuit as most of the students I teach will not be around in 2 months for whatever reason

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[VectorBoy 0]

Kudos to those that can offer free FFCs.

[monkycndo 0]

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Question: on top of all that, why do you charge beer if you don't drink beer?

The part not included from the email was that I prefer Mike's Hard Lime or Lemonade.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[bodypilot1 0]

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That would be correct but it seems the DZ is not making anything off the wingsuit jump or instruction other than slots

Figured that way instruction plus suit rental $40
2 slots $44

Cost to the EXPERIENCED jumper $84.00

sounds a little high to me ---- How much do you charge total with slots Ed?

And for the record I don't charge because I can --- Skydiving is my hobby not my job ----- and teaching people to skydive is different than teaching experienced jumpers to fly a wingsuit as most of the students I teach will not be around in 2 months for whatever reason

My course is alittle more extensive then just a briefing. I train body positioning with a mock ws jump before even putting on a suit. After video debriefing the mock jump, we jump with the ws on and video debrief that as well. I charge $25+slot for coach jumps with video, whether its with an AFF student just off student status or a ws coached jump. I'm available 7 days a week.

edit to add:

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most of the students I teach will not be around in 2 months for whatever reason

Why do you think that is?

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[voodew1 0]

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most of the students I teach will not be around in 2 months for whatever reason

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Why do you think that is?

Money and fear seem to be the most common ---- out of around 400 AFF students --- I would say 25% made it thru AFF and 5% still jump
10 of my students are still jumping most weekends with over 200 jumps

That just seems to be the way it is in this part of the world

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[VectorBoy 0]

The part not included from the email was that I prefer Mike's Hard Lime or Lemonade.

If a student brought me a girly bev like that I would charge them $800 dollars for the flirst flight course and suit rental.

Still free for any real beer though.

[monkycndo 0]

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The part not included from the email was that I prefer Mike's Hard Lime or Lemonade.

If a student brought me a girly bev like that I would charge them $800 dollars for the flirst flight course and suit rental.


We would make a good team. You would get the $800 and I would get the free girly bev.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[bodypilot1 0]

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monkycndo wrote:
We would make a good team. You would get the $800 and I would get the free girly bev.

After that cozy night both of you guys had in my guest house, I think he's still hot for you....

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[VectorBoy 0]

I think he's still hot for you....

Everybody is hot for me! You should have seen them all staring at my backside during the flockage. I like the attention but I'm promissed to Kriss.