lurch 0 #26 October 14, 2008 Whats your wingspan? And whats HIS? This is why I mentioned body type, you could be 6'1" 200 with relatively short, muscular arms and max out at 52mph or the same weight and height but built all long-armed and ropey like a basketball player and max out at 45, sometimes 42 to 40. I think you're being a bit optimistic. If low-40's was what "most" 200 pounders could get in a 6, I'd be seeing a lot more big guys pulling well over 3 minute flights from normal altitude (13.5-14.5) flying 6's. I've never seen it done, not in the 200 lb weight class. Most 200 lb 6's I've seen flown averaged 60's and 70's and got low-50's high 40's as examples of extraordinary performance, not necessarily repeatable at will. I'm not saying there aren't a few who're that good, but expecting low-40's to be "normal" for that weight class in that suit is a bit of a stretch. I'd call it "normal" for the big-guy crowd around here flying mostly various Mach suits, with the slightly lighter ones (175-185+ lbs) occasionally breaking into the 30's, more often the lighter they are and the more they fly. I'm not trash talking the 6, I love my own, mods or no mods, but if I were selling them I wouldn't sell it to guys that size, with fallrates that low as a "you'll do it easily, most guys do" selling point. Just bein' honest. -BLive and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #27 October 14, 2008 I meant 200 out the door just like the OP. I guess that clears it up. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #28 October 14, 2008 why does one have to be an experienced BASE jumper to figure things out? Solos are the best method to figure things out in skydiving, don't you agree? It takes a little bit of repeated exposure before new BASE jumpers relax a bit, no? If you live near a tremendous object and can hit it any time weather permits and have many exits from that location and have become familiar then test away in as many jumps at the same object. BTW tremendous objects mean long hikes or some driving or helicopters if you are lucky. Skydive solos are not so good for fine tuning, there is nothing to benchmark off of. Which leads you to rely on electronics with at best snap-shot info with huge latency for feedback. They are fun but anybody that primarily does solos typically has huge skill gaps ( at least initially) when it comes time to join a flock that is actually flying efficiently. This has been our experience. You need a known and familiar base to fly off of. Hopefully one you've flown with for hundreds of jumps. You can test for 2 minutes plus in as many times per day as you can turn the load. And of course sluggish flocks that are flown at the bottom of the envelope to allow lower skilled or smaller suited flyers to join in are not good for upper envelope practice but they do offer feedback on staying stable when flying sloppy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #29 October 14, 2008 I meant, as in, a BASE jump(at a nice safe location) in the current state of the jumper will still let the jumper know their performance regardless of experience. Obviously, if someone has to learn flocking, either slow or fast, it has to be done by repeating that kind of jump. When I said QuoteSolos are the best method to figure things out in skydiving, don't you agree? I assumed that we were speaking in the context of the OPs question of how does he get to 50mph or under? I don't think I am qualified to give advise on how to flock. I can reach a flock exiting anywhere in the order but that is the extent of my skills. Kris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #30 October 15, 2008 I assumed that we were speaking in the context of the OPs question of how does he get to 50mph or under? Quote To the original poster 50s are not bad in a skyflyer. I struggled to get floaty and below 50 much for a few seconds. What I did do in the skyflyer 3 was travel faster forward at the descent speed of mid 50s. I'm 200 with gear and 5'9". Some guys got slower than myself but most that could weighed 20 pounds less on average. I soon stopped looking at the numbers and just flew the suit for distance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnskydiver688 0 #31 October 15, 2008 Thanks for all the info. After reading I guess flocking in the low to mid 60's isn't too bad for my experience and my suit combination. I guess when I fly with a guy who is 170-175lbs out the door in a phantom 2, I might be too hard on myself with regards to fall rate. However when it comes to forward speed the S6 kills it!Sky Canyon Wingsuiters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Butters 0 #32 October 15, 2008 Quote Thanks for all the info. After reading I guess flocking in the low to mid 60's isn't too bad for my experience and my suit combination. I guess when I fly with a guy who is 170-175lbs out the door in a phantom 2, I might be too hard on myself with regards to fall rate. However when it comes to forward speed the S6 kills it! Exactly, just keep flocking (since you can already take-off at break-off) ... "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnskydiver688 0 #33 October 15, 2008 Ok ok. You don't have to yell. Sky Canyon Wingsuiters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Butters 0 #34 October 15, 2008 Quote Ok ok. You don't have to yell. JUST KEEP FLOCKING!"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohanW 0 #35 October 15, 2008 QuoteWhats your wingspan? And whats HIS? This is why I mentioned body type, you could be 6'1" 200 with relatively short, muscular arms and max out at 52mph or the same weight and height but built all long-armed and ropey like a basketball player and max out at 45, sometimes 42 to 40. I think you're being a bit optimistic. If low-40's was what "most" 200 pounders could get in a 6, I'd be seeing a lot more big guys pulling well over 3 minute flights from normal altitude (13.5-14.5) flying 6's. I've never seen it done, not in the 200 lb weight class. Most 200 lb 6's I've seen flown averaged 60's and 70's and got low-50's high 40's as examples of extraordinary performance, not necessarily repeatable at will. I'm not saying there aren't a few who're that good, but expecting low-40's to be "normal" for that weight class in that suit is a bit of a stretch. I'd call it "normal" for the big-guy crowd around here flying mostly various Mach suits, with the slightly lighter ones (175-185+ lbs) occasionally breaking into the 30's, more often the lighter they are and the more they fly. I'm not trash talking the 6, I love my own, mods or no mods, but if I were selling them I wouldn't sell it to guys that size, with fallrates that low as a "you'll do it easily, most guys do" selling point. Just bein' honest. -B 6'1", 220 out the door, S3S. High 40s is repeatable, low 40s is definitely possible (as an average), low 30s is extraordinary (only attained while flaring). It's not the arrow, it's the Indian. I would not have the stamina to go from 14.5 to 2.5, I don't think, but I can get 2'15" from 12 to 3. I'm not all that good, I have maybe 300 wingsuit jumps and not all of them on the S3S. Doing a bunch of solos to improve drive and lift does help with flocking, in my experience. So does doing a bunch of flocking dives. As does some belly-RW, but for different reasons.Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,500 #36 October 15, 2008 Quote I'm not saying there aren't a few who're that good, but expecting low-40's to be "normal" for that weight class in that suit is a bit of a stretch. I'd call it "normal" for the big-guy crowd around here flying mostly various Mach suits, with the slightly lighter ones (175-185+ lbs) occasionally breaking into the 30's, more often the lighter they are and the more they fly. Hehe, sometimes it's nice to be small. At about 5'8" and 145lb I could average mid/high 30s for an entire dive in my relatively tiny winged phantom, and I'm sure there was more to come. Sold it to an even smaller friend and he was getting 3+mins and 40 averages after about 10 jumps. Can't imagine having to strap on the mountain of fabric that is a Mach and not even get that level of performanceDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #37 October 15, 2008 Hehe, sometimes it's nice to be small. At about 5'8" and 145lb I could average mid/high 30s for an entire dive in my relatively tiny winged phantom, and I'm sure there was more to come. Sold it to an even smaller friend and he was getting 3+mins and 40 averages after about 10 jumps. Can't imagine having to strap on the mountain of fabric that is a Mach and not even get that level of performance Your configuration might have a disadvantage in penetrating as well as somebody who weighs a little more. Float you will but you might not as easily win any speed comps and you may have trouble catching a flock that is way out in front, unless you fine tune those ninja skills to compensate....... Like everything else in life its a balance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KrisFlyZ 0 #38 October 15, 2008 Hey Jakee, Those are nice fall rates. How much ground do you cover on these jumps? Would you say you are flying(hauling ass across the ground) or floating? Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Butters 0 #39 October 15, 2008 QuoteHey Jakee, Those are nice fall rates. How much ground do you cover on these jumps? Would you say you are flying(hauling ass across the ground) or floating? Kris. I'm 5'8" and 150lbs and when I'm in the 40mph range with my Phantom II I'm floating (at least what I consider floating) but then again I'm still learning how to fly my Phantom II ... PS: Jakee, what altitude are you exiting and deploying on your 3+ minute flights (and do you have video)?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,500 #40 October 15, 2008 Quote Your configuration might have a disadvantage in penetrating as well as somebody who weighs a little more. Float you will but you might not as easily win any speed comps and you may have trouble catching a flock that is way out in front, unless you fine tune those ninja skills to compensate....... Speed comps I may not win (without a target/reference I tend to fly a little too floaty), but I have never come across I flock I couldn't get to (and in good time), even exiting last row from an AN72. I like to practice the whole range of ninja skillsDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites voodew1 0 #41 October 15, 2008 QuoteCan't imagine having to strap on the mountain of fabric that is a Mach and not even get that level of performance Thats funny shit right there!!!!!!!!! The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,500 #42 October 15, 2008 Quote I'm 5'8" and 150lbs and when I'm in the 40mph range with my Phantom II I'm floating (at least what I consider floating) but then again I'm still learning how to fly my Phantom II ... I have a natural tendency to fly too flat, but after a bunch of jumps was able to figure that out and put some decent angle on without really sacrificing fall rate (speed = lift!). My max jumps with the phantom were mostly between 13/14k deploying at 3/4k (pulling high 'cos my arms were too knackered for a strong throw). No video. Cameras is expensive! (And it would be insanely boring footage - "There's the ground. Now it's a tiny bit closer. Now it's a tiny bit closer. Now it's slightly closer than that. Hey look, wet paint!")Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 1 #43 October 16, 2008 QuoteWould you say you are flying(hauling ass across the ground) or floating? What I find most funny is that relative to anything else that flies, both our "floating" and our "flying" are both crap. A glide ratio of 1.5:1 vs 2.5:1 is not really a world of difference. Both are pretty much "falling at an angle"... no bird or pilot would describe either as "gliding." We are massive air deflectors at best. Fortunately, it's still hella fun, and when you have the right visual references, it still feels like you're flying (but so can simple tracking).www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #44 October 16, 2008 What I find most funny is that relative to anything else that flies, both our "floating" and our "flying" are both crap. A glide ratio of 1.5:1 vs 2.5:1 is not really a world of difference. Both are pretty much "falling at an angle"... no bird or pilot would describe either as "gliding." We are massive air deflectors at best. Sounds like you are having a bad day or hanging out with Yuri, which would explain. Nothing a few Atmonauti couldn't cheer you right out of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot1 0 #45 October 16, 2008 Quote Both are pretty much "falling at an angle"... no bird or pilot would describe either as "gliding." We are massive air deflectors at best. Yep www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,500 #46 October 16, 2008 QuoteA glide ratio of 1.5:1 vs 2.5:1 is not really a world of difference. It's 67% better, that sounds like a lot to me!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KrisFlyZ 0 #47 October 16, 2008 QuoteQuoteWould you say you are flying(hauling ass across the ground) or floating? What I find most funny is that relative to anything else that flies, both our "floating" and our "flying" are both crap. A glide ratio of 1.5:1 vs 2.5:1 is not really a world of difference. Both are pretty much "falling at an angle"... no bird or pilot would describe either as "gliding." We are massive air deflectors at best. Fortunately, it's still hella fun, and when you have the right visual references, it still feels like you're flying (but so can simple tracking). There is a clear difference in the way 'flying' vs 'floating' feels whichever one the person flying chooses to do more of. Kris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
mnskydiver688 0 #31 October 15, 2008 Thanks for all the info. After reading I guess flocking in the low to mid 60's isn't too bad for my experience and my suit combination. I guess when I fly with a guy who is 170-175lbs out the door in a phantom 2, I might be too hard on myself with regards to fall rate. However when it comes to forward speed the S6 kills it!Sky Canyon Wingsuiters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #32 October 15, 2008 Quote Thanks for all the info. After reading I guess flocking in the low to mid 60's isn't too bad for my experience and my suit combination. I guess when I fly with a guy who is 170-175lbs out the door in a phantom 2, I might be too hard on myself with regards to fall rate. However when it comes to forward speed the S6 kills it! Exactly, just keep flocking (since you can already take-off at break-off) ... "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnskydiver688 0 #33 October 15, 2008 Ok ok. You don't have to yell. Sky Canyon Wingsuiters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #34 October 15, 2008 Quote Ok ok. You don't have to yell. JUST KEEP FLOCKING!"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #35 October 15, 2008 QuoteWhats your wingspan? And whats HIS? This is why I mentioned body type, you could be 6'1" 200 with relatively short, muscular arms and max out at 52mph or the same weight and height but built all long-armed and ropey like a basketball player and max out at 45, sometimes 42 to 40. I think you're being a bit optimistic. If low-40's was what "most" 200 pounders could get in a 6, I'd be seeing a lot more big guys pulling well over 3 minute flights from normal altitude (13.5-14.5) flying 6's. I've never seen it done, not in the 200 lb weight class. Most 200 lb 6's I've seen flown averaged 60's and 70's and got low-50's high 40's as examples of extraordinary performance, not necessarily repeatable at will. I'm not saying there aren't a few who're that good, but expecting low-40's to be "normal" for that weight class in that suit is a bit of a stretch. I'd call it "normal" for the big-guy crowd around here flying mostly various Mach suits, with the slightly lighter ones (175-185+ lbs) occasionally breaking into the 30's, more often the lighter they are and the more they fly. I'm not trash talking the 6, I love my own, mods or no mods, but if I were selling them I wouldn't sell it to guys that size, with fallrates that low as a "you'll do it easily, most guys do" selling point. Just bein' honest. -B 6'1", 220 out the door, S3S. High 40s is repeatable, low 40s is definitely possible (as an average), low 30s is extraordinary (only attained while flaring). It's not the arrow, it's the Indian. I would not have the stamina to go from 14.5 to 2.5, I don't think, but I can get 2'15" from 12 to 3. I'm not all that good, I have maybe 300 wingsuit jumps and not all of them on the S3S. Doing a bunch of solos to improve drive and lift does help with flocking, in my experience. So does doing a bunch of flocking dives. As does some belly-RW, but for different reasons.Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #36 October 15, 2008 Quote I'm not saying there aren't a few who're that good, but expecting low-40's to be "normal" for that weight class in that suit is a bit of a stretch. I'd call it "normal" for the big-guy crowd around here flying mostly various Mach suits, with the slightly lighter ones (175-185+ lbs) occasionally breaking into the 30's, more often the lighter they are and the more they fly. Hehe, sometimes it's nice to be small. At about 5'8" and 145lb I could average mid/high 30s for an entire dive in my relatively tiny winged phantom, and I'm sure there was more to come. Sold it to an even smaller friend and he was getting 3+mins and 40 averages after about 10 jumps. Can't imagine having to strap on the mountain of fabric that is a Mach and not even get that level of performanceDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #37 October 15, 2008 Hehe, sometimes it's nice to be small. At about 5'8" and 145lb I could average mid/high 30s for an entire dive in my relatively tiny winged phantom, and I'm sure there was more to come. Sold it to an even smaller friend and he was getting 3+mins and 40 averages after about 10 jumps. Can't imagine having to strap on the mountain of fabric that is a Mach and not even get that level of performance Your configuration might have a disadvantage in penetrating as well as somebody who weighs a little more. Float you will but you might not as easily win any speed comps and you may have trouble catching a flock that is way out in front, unless you fine tune those ninja skills to compensate....... Like everything else in life its a balance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #38 October 15, 2008 Hey Jakee, Those are nice fall rates. How much ground do you cover on these jumps? Would you say you are flying(hauling ass across the ground) or floating? Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #39 October 15, 2008 QuoteHey Jakee, Those are nice fall rates. How much ground do you cover on these jumps? Would you say you are flying(hauling ass across the ground) or floating? Kris. I'm 5'8" and 150lbs and when I'm in the 40mph range with my Phantom II I'm floating (at least what I consider floating) but then again I'm still learning how to fly my Phantom II ... PS: Jakee, what altitude are you exiting and deploying on your 3+ minute flights (and do you have video)?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #40 October 15, 2008 Quote Your configuration might have a disadvantage in penetrating as well as somebody who weighs a little more. Float you will but you might not as easily win any speed comps and you may have trouble catching a flock that is way out in front, unless you fine tune those ninja skills to compensate....... Speed comps I may not win (without a target/reference I tend to fly a little too floaty), but I have never come across I flock I couldn't get to (and in good time), even exiting last row from an AN72. I like to practice the whole range of ninja skillsDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voodew1 0 #41 October 15, 2008 QuoteCan't imagine having to strap on the mountain of fabric that is a Mach and not even get that level of performance Thats funny shit right there!!!!!!!!! The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #42 October 15, 2008 Quote I'm 5'8" and 150lbs and when I'm in the 40mph range with my Phantom II I'm floating (at least what I consider floating) but then again I'm still learning how to fly my Phantom II ... I have a natural tendency to fly too flat, but after a bunch of jumps was able to figure that out and put some decent angle on without really sacrificing fall rate (speed = lift!). My max jumps with the phantom were mostly between 13/14k deploying at 3/4k (pulling high 'cos my arms were too knackered for a strong throw). No video. Cameras is expensive! (And it would be insanely boring footage - "There's the ground. Now it's a tiny bit closer. Now it's a tiny bit closer. Now it's slightly closer than that. Hey look, wet paint!")Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #43 October 16, 2008 QuoteWould you say you are flying(hauling ass across the ground) or floating? What I find most funny is that relative to anything else that flies, both our "floating" and our "flying" are both crap. A glide ratio of 1.5:1 vs 2.5:1 is not really a world of difference. Both are pretty much "falling at an angle"... no bird or pilot would describe either as "gliding." We are massive air deflectors at best. Fortunately, it's still hella fun, and when you have the right visual references, it still feels like you're flying (but so can simple tracking).www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #44 October 16, 2008 What I find most funny is that relative to anything else that flies, both our "floating" and our "flying" are both crap. A glide ratio of 1.5:1 vs 2.5:1 is not really a world of difference. Both are pretty much "falling at an angle"... no bird or pilot would describe either as "gliding." We are massive air deflectors at best. Sounds like you are having a bad day or hanging out with Yuri, which would explain. Nothing a few Atmonauti couldn't cheer you right out of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #45 October 16, 2008 Quote Both are pretty much "falling at an angle"... no bird or pilot would describe either as "gliding." We are massive air deflectors at best. Yep www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #46 October 16, 2008 QuoteA glide ratio of 1.5:1 vs 2.5:1 is not really a world of difference. It's 67% better, that sounds like a lot to me!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #47 October 16, 2008 QuoteQuoteWould you say you are flying(hauling ass across the ground) or floating? What I find most funny is that relative to anything else that flies, both our "floating" and our "flying" are both crap. A glide ratio of 1.5:1 vs 2.5:1 is not really a world of difference. Both are pretty much "falling at an angle"... no bird or pilot would describe either as "gliding." We are massive air deflectors at best. Fortunately, it's still hella fun, and when you have the right visual references, it still feels like you're flying (but so can simple tracking). There is a clear difference in the way 'flying' vs 'floating' feels whichever one the person flying chooses to do more of. Kris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
