Need Info On Vigil

[helldog 0]

I'm looking a purchasing a new AAD and i'm looking for some pro and cons on the vigil vs. the new cypress
Blue Skies
Jim

[ypelchat 0]

It looks like the Vigil is not available right now, for some strange reasons. My dealer has order 5 or 6 Vigils, a long time ago, and non have been delivered yet. I guess we just have to wait.



Yves.

[gulaz 1]

I heard a rumour that they are running into legal issues, because a vigil looks, for the most part, like a cypres with a different cover on it. I think it was an issue with the fact that the cutters are exactly the same, and made by the same company as the cypres ones.
Dont know how much of this is true, just a rumour... but it would explain the delay.

[ypelchat 0]

Yeah, I heard the same thing. Lets hope they cand resolve this issue quickly.



Yves.

[velo90 0]

Last thing I heard was that it had been grounded because of a premature fire.
Link to article in German and french :-
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Vigil+group:de.rec.sport.fallschirm&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&group=de.rec.sport.fallschirm&safe=off&selm=behqee%24e07%2404%241%40news.t-online.com&rnum=1

[riggerrob 643]

If Airtec is trying to delay Vigil on the issue of patent infringement, that is a joke!
There is far too much "prior art."
I remember examining a prototype FXC Astra and listening to Francis Xavier Chevrier explain that FXC Corporation held so many patents on reefing line cutters ...

[Harksaw 0]

I do not guarantee any of the below info.

In this other thread http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/Gear_and_Rigging_F6/VIGIL_P590372-2

someone said that the ban was lifted, because the Vigil that fired was an experimental version.

__________________________________________________
I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait.

[AndyMan 7]

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If Airtec is trying to delay Vigil on the issue of patent infringement, that is a joke!

I believe the issue is contractual, not patents.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

contact Kim Griffin at kim@vigil.aero

[webracer 0]

I think we all would like some info on the Vigil, but that company has not been very forthcoming with any information. I can understand not discussing legal issues, but they seem to be shrouding this device in vagueness. I have not heard anything specific, nor heard of the company responding efficiently with the public. A bad start in my book.

Troy

I am now free to exercise my downward mobility.

[ypelchat 0]

Quote

I think we all would like some info on the Vigil, but that company has not been very forthcoming with any information. I can understand not discussing legal issues, but they seem to be shrouding this device in vagueness. I have not heard anything specific, nor heard of the company responding efficiently with the public. A bad start in my book.

Agreed! I'm looking for a new AAD now. I just dunno what to think about the Vigil. Anybody knows if it will ever be sold?

One thing is sure, if it's not available in march/april of 2004, I'll buy myself a new Cypres 2.



Yves.

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

I think we all would like some info on the Vigil, but that company has not been very forthcoming with any information. I can understand not discussing legal issues, but they seem to be shrouding this device in vagueness. I have not heard anything specific, nor heard of the company responding efficiently with the public. A bad start in my book.

Lets try to remember that the product is not available for sale, it's not even on the market.

While I'll fault a company for failing to disclose information about a product available for sale, I will not fault one for doing the same when the product is still in design or testing phases of development.

In the High Tech industry, secrecy about a product until its launch date is the norm. These products are so expensive to design, companies frequently keep everything they can about it secret until the launch date.

I'm surprised we even know about its existance... Lets not be too quick to judge.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[kimgriffin 0]

Hi! I work for Vigil USA so I'll be happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability. I've been on the job for about a month so I'm somewhat knowledgeable but hardly an AAD expert. There's also ton of info on the website, if you have not been there.

Vigil was started in Belgium. That's where you will find the production and testing facilities of Advanced Aerospace Designs (that is the name of the Belgian company that makes the Vigil AAD). Due to the amount of jumpers in the US, the owners quickly realized that it would make their life a lot easier to have a distributor to handle US sales. So, Vigil USA in DeLand, Florida, was born. This is who I work for - Vigil USA - and I'm the main point of contact. Vigil USA covers sales and customer service in the US, S. America and Canada. All sales will go only through approved Vigil USA dealers.

Airtec vs Advanced Aerospace Designs...To put rumors to rest, yes, Cypres tried to claim that there was a patent infringement on the Vigil cutter. This did throw a monkey wrench in to production plans and caused a delay in getting the Vigil out on the market. Airtec, however, could not go far with the suit because it was proven that there is no patent infringment. The Vgil cutter is unique and was designed by a company in Wisconsin that has been making cutters for over 30 years - way before Airtec was on the scene.

To the person who claimed that Vigil is just like a Cypres with a different box... that is not correct info and has not been an issue for the company. Of course, it IS a similar product - meant to cut your reserve loop at a pre-determined altitude/speed (if you don't or can't save your own life). But, it is designed differently, has different materials, programming, etc. Just as a Vector and a Javelin are constructed a bit differently and look a little different from one another, but they are made to serve the same purpose.

What the h@#! has been taking so long??? Yeah, I'm with you on this - a valid question! Vigil beta (test) units were out in the field this summer but only a few found their way to the US. Delays were caused by a few things: marketing before production was at full capacity/speed to be able to handle demand, the cutter issue with Airtec, Advanced Aerospace Designs deciding mid-summer to create a US distributorship - it took time to find the people, place, legalize corp documents, etc. Vigil USA was active only in mid-Oct. Nothing has really happened with dealers and Vigil orders until recently. We're trying our best now to get the ball rolling. Like I said, our capacity to meet demand has been out of balance. This problem should be remedied very soon as production Vigil units are coming off the line (not fast enough for some people, I'm sure) and are now finally getting in to the hands of jumpers.

Does your (US) dealer have units in stock? No, not yet. Limited dealers should have some by the end of Dec. More and more will come as time goes by.

Even the biggest skydiving mfg are still small compared to the non-skydiving business world. And, Vigil is a currently a small skydiving mfg, so things don't always go as fast as some people would like. (Including me! I have dealers to answer to so I'm probably the biggest pain in production's ass at the moment. )

The misfire someone asked about... yes, it was on a test unit - not a production unit.

Okay, I hope that covered the questions in this thread.

My opinion as a skydiver (of 11 years) is that no matter which AAD you choose, the fact that a new AAD mfg is on the scene is going to be good for for our sport. The AAD companies will have to continually improve technology and keep their prices down to compete with one another. So, it's all good.

~Kim Griffin
Vigil USA Sales Liaison
(if anyone can think of a cooler title, then bring it on)

-Kimberly Griffin

[Harksaw 0]

Thanks for the info. One more question I was wondering:

Would you agree with the statement I have concluded from your website, that the rigger's functionality kit is only available because these checks are legally required in some countries, and there is no other reason for it?

__________________________________________________
I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait.

[ypelchat 0]

Thanks for the info Kim.



Yves.

[rjf98 0]

Holy S****
An actuall voice from the company. Trying to get them to answer e-mail from the web site was ridiculous. I'll PM you on a couple of questions
I had.

[Jimbo 0]

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Okay, I hope that covered the questions in this thread.

As long as you're answering questions, at one time there was a rumor that AAD would offer a Vigil without all of the ProTrack-like features for a reduced price. Is this rumor true? If so, when should we expect such a unit?

Thanks,
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Hooknswoop 19]

In the U.S., FAR Part 105 states "(c) If installed, the automatic activation device must be maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions for that automatic activation device."

From the Vigil’s FAQ’s:

Is annual rigger check necessary?
I thought the functionality do not have to be checked by riggers? So why should the riggers buy this module and software? The rigger can buy an IR bi-directional communications module and associated software. This costs 521 EUR. It is made for riggers to check the functionalities. This depends local legislation if it is necessary. We advise to do an annual check I read that a rigger should check the Vigil yearly. Is this mandatory or is it OK to continue to jump when the unit shows no signs of problems? Riggers can do an annual check in a pressure chamber and results can be downloaded through the IR port and a report can be printed. No need to return the unit to a factory. Most countries have an annual inspection program for parachutes. It can be done together with these tests.

My question is, does the annual check utilizing the “module and software” part of the “manufacturer instructions” for the Vigil AAD?

Airtec is very specific in regards to Cypres battery replacement and unit maintenance requirements, which makes them mandatory in the U.S. per the FAR’s. I personally would recommend against anyone buying a Vigil until after this issue is sorted out and they know if either their rigger would have to buy the module and software, or if the rigger doesn’t want to purchase the equipment, force the owner to send the unit back to Vigil annually.

Derek

[sundevil777 102]

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I personally would recommend against anyone buying a Vigil until after this issue is sorted out and they know if either their rigger would have to buy the module and software, or if the rigger doesn’t want to purchase the equipment, force the owner to send the unit back to Vigil annually.

It does seem that the Vigil has intentionally ambiguous wording regarding this.

Too bad they don't have their act together. It would be so nice to see real competition.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[kimgriffin 0]

Yes, I understand that there are a ton of people (in the US especially) who have not heard back from Vigil. I'm so sorry you did not hear back from someone!

While the Belgian owners (who are not fluent in writing English) were deciding what to do with the US/Canada/South America sales and then setting up Vigil USA, some emails sat unanswered. They have forwarded a bunch of those emails to me (ohhh, it's a lot) and I'm getting to them one at a time. I'm pretty much it as far at the Vigil USA office goes - and because I go to school at nights, I only work part time.

You will get quicker responses by emailing me (see post above). I'm not on this site every day.

Thanks for your patience. Sorry we have not been quicker in the past!

-Kimberly Griffin

[kimgriffin 0]

No, I have not even heard that rumor. Right now, the only Vigil for sale is the standard production model, which does include the data recorder.

-Kimberly Griffin

[kimgriffin 0]

Thanks for that. Yes, the problem was/is that info on the Vigil got out to the skydivers at large early this summer (due in part to some early-marketing) and there were some beta test units getting out in the field. So, skydivers assumed everything was in place for the company to start mass producing. But, so there are so many little and big things it takes to start up a mfg company - 2 companies actually (A.A.D. and Vigil USA) - and so many things that come up that you don't plan on.

I wish I could say Vigil USA had 500 units in stock to distribute to its dealers but that would be a lie. It would be great if we did because we could sell most of them. But, we're just not at that point yet. It's still too early. Production units (meaning not test units) are finally coming off the production line - but the amount that can be produced at this point is not staggering. It will take us until Jan or Feb to really have a decent # of units to supply dealers (who will supply the end customer).

If you call around next month you will find some dealers either have units in stock or they will be getting them by the beginning of the year.

I really do wish I could have better news and tell you that 1000s of units were coming in and you could have instant gratification by calling any dealer. But, I'm one of you and refuse to BS anyone.

I do think the Vigil is a very cool piece of technology and if you can wait, then wait. If not, then I'm sorry if we couldn't help.

It shouldn't be toooo much longer now.

-Kimberly Griffin

[kimgriffin 0]

I have emailed Vigil's owner/creator on this question. I will reply when I hear the official word.

I ask for some mercy on the website's wording!

-Kimberly Griffin

[kimgriffin 0]

Hi! In regards to the riggers kit question, here is the answer directly from one of the Vigil owners' mouth (well, fingers actually):

"NO, the annual riggers check is not necessary, since the Vigil does a complete self check.
We created the download possibility because some organizations (military) or countries (Russia) demand that a unit will be checked each year. That's
why. (The riggers check is) not mandatory by us."

I thought this would be the case because the Vigil will tell you throught the LCD display if there is anything wrong with it (or give you jump info) - you don't need a rigger to check that for you.

-Kimberly Griffin

[Hooknswoop 19]

Thank you for clearing that up.

Derek