Jump#'s/Tunnel time/Wingsuiting

[k2xblade 0]

Whats up everyone. I know that people say to have a min 150-200 jumps etc before you try a wingsuit. But heres my dilemma

I work at a windtunnel, i've got a few hours flying in there, i'm a pretty good freeflyer, i've got about 35 jumps, i'm able to freefly in the sky pretty good. I know 35 jumps isnt a lot of "air" time, but bodyflight wise i've got lots of time.

I recently bought a Birdman Blade suit, i know its a more advanced suit, but its the one i really like and eventually wanted, plus i found it for super super cheap, and it fits me perfectly, so i had to jump on the deal.

So now i have this wingsuit, and i really dont want to wait until i have 200 jumps to fly it, but i'm not trying to say "oh i'm a good flyer forget what everyone else says ill jump it now"

Anyway, just looking for some advice, I definitely am going to look for someone to help coach me at the dz, just thought i'd get some opinions here from some experienced wingsuiters. Thanks guys.

[mccordia 74]

Though in terms of skills, you may outclass a lot of flyers with 200 (or more) jumps, the flying you do in a wingsuit (with forward momentum added) is more akin to canopy flying than normal freefall.

The closing speeds in a wingsuit jump can be double (to more) of that on normal jumps, where-as in a windtunnel, you are not really used to anything more than a few meters apart. And than there is a large part of awareness in terms of navigation and body position during opening which you also only develop over time.

And performance wise, jumping at that low an experience level will most likely result in something resembling a bad tracking. Nice for the ego, as you jumped a wingsuit. But a useless added danger to you and everyone else on the load.

That aside, with most countries enforcing 200 (or more) jumps as a minimum (be it just an advice or manditory rule), you own risk aside, the person coaching you also opens him/herself up to a world of pain in case of even the simplest mishap.

Though its most likely not what you want to hear, I could name a dozen or more reasons for you to wait untill AT LEAST the recommended MINIMUM experience. And only one stupid reason for doing it as soon as possible...impatience...

That aside, suits with bigger wings (such as the one you aquired) alse are far (FAR) from ideal for a first wingsuit jump. And getting your first 20 to 30 wingsuit jumps on a lent/rented smaller wing is 100% advisable, once you're at a suitable experience level for trying what you want to do.


The last 4 or 5 wingsuit accidents in skydiving are all people with (your) low experience level, and often some experience in another sport or dicipline (be it linked to skydiving/base or not), which they deemed worthy/suitable for doing what they wanted to try.
In all cases, its the family and loved ones left with the concequences of that decission...

My advice..wait and jump your ass off..
You'll be glad you did when you look back a few hundred jumps later..

http://www.flylikebrick.com/wingsuit-faq.php for some tips and suggestions on what to do and practice in the jumps that lay ahead..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[dragon2 2]

You know, it's either "Wow." or "Troll.". THAT is how dumb this post of yours is coming across.

Quote

So now i have this wingsuit, and i really dont want to wait until i have 200 jumps to fly it, but i'm not trying to say "oh i'm a good flyer forget what everyone else says ill jump it now"

Yeah sure. So you'd buy a Velocity too right now, if it's in your colors and you really really really like it and it was such a sweet deal

Quote

So now i have this wingsuit, and I really dont want to wait until i have 200 jumps to fly it

200 jumps done in a short time (= 1.5 years) is the absolute minimum, better is to have a few hundred jumps more. Then the blade is an advanced suit so a 100 jumps in a beginner/intermediate wingsuit would help you learn to fly instead of the suit flying you.


Tunnel time means nothing for wingsuiting, you do not learn to exit, awareness of others, closing speed do's and don'ts, flying a circuit, not hindering/endagering anyone else while doing so, opening stable and on heading, dealing with (and preventing) linetwists in a wingsuit, and so on.

200 jumps is NOTHING, you'll see later on when you have more jumps, and 200 jumps can be done in a short time, which they should if you want to wingsuit. So, my advice to you is to shut up and jump.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[mccordia 74]

Quote

You know, it's either "Wow." or "Troll.". THAT is how dumb this post of yours is coming across.

He's asking advice, nothing dumb about that.
Granted, this question gets asked about once every week on here, and about double that over email. But as long as there is a well formulated answer, which gives the poster a valid reason for following rules and recommendations...than its all good in my book..

I know its the Nth the question is answered here, but for him its the first time he asked. So the "F*k you're stupid" tone in your post is a bit overdone (or maybe Im just to kind)

But to anyone wanting to get into this, and thinking about having his/her impatience be a valid reason for doing so...You'll be on this planet for a long time, and so will airplanes, wingsuits and rocks to jump from (if thats part of your future plans)...just dont rush it and you'll be able to enjoy it much longer and with less risk to you and the people around you!

side subject:
The fact that this same question can be found on this forum about 200 times, and people wanting to get into this, never taking the time to properly search (here and other resources) and learn just shows how the MTV/GoFast lifestyle is getting to people, and anything less than instant gratification is not interesting or worth the effort...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[pilotdave 0]

Just my opinion... you can't learn very much that will help you fly a wingsuit in the tunnel. Maybe with your body awareness you'd be able to fly the suit really well... but that's not the point. The 200 jumps are for getting awareness of everything else around you. They're for dealing with linetwists and having altitude awareness. The wingsuit adds complexity to the jump in a lot of ways. Equipment complexity, emergency procedures, flight planning, RW skills, etc.

So again, just my opinion, but work on RW skills and things you can't do in the wind tunnel and get 200 canopy deployments and landings before you consider putting on the wingsuit.

Dav

[Butters 0]

The problem is that the important things for wingsuiting can't be learned (or practiced) in a tunnel. Exiting, navigation, deploying, etc...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

K2x~
I have never flown a wingsuit in my life, although I bought a brand new one when I was uncurrent several years back. Sadly, I sold it before I returned to the sky because I was uncurrent for over a couple of years. I didn't feel that I would be ready to fly it right away, so I sold it & used the funds to buy a used rig.

I was worried that my lack of experience wearing a wingsuit might impair me during emergency procedures, which could happen at any time. I didn't want that lack of confidence to add to the stress of enjoying a new discipline.

Since returning to the sky last fall, I've begun to fly in RW bigways. Casual sitflying in a tunnel, which is the only tunnel flying that I'd done last year, did not prepare me in any way to do bigways. (My last RW coached tunnel sessions were in 2005.) It wasn't until I was actually skydiving in the P3 bigway camps, that I was learning the discipline of bigway RW skydiving. I will continue to grow in this discipline for years and years, like all of the other jumpers. This is because learning in skydiving will always be a slower progression, than learning in a wind tunnel.

Likewise, wingsuit flying is something that will require more time (& jumps) in the sport. Freeflying in a wind tunnel will not necessarily help with wingsuit flying. There are so many more dangers involved in the sky, that one doesn't deal with in a wind tunnel. One must be much more aware of so many factors.

I hope that you get good advice, and find a papa bird mentor in the area. I'm sure that someone from here could guide you in the right direction, if you ask for help. Good luck, and I'll see you soon, I'm sure. (Yep, I know who this is.)

[unclecharlie95 3]

You want to jump a wingsuit, you don't satisfy the requirements BUT you have mad skillz.

There are those who occupy space in that small crack to the far right of the normal distribution, they are incredible natural athletes and can take to new things with little or no effort.

But odds are you are not from this place.

Maybe we should modify the FAQ to cover all possible variations of "I want to jump a wingsuit, don't have 200 jumps BUT ......."

200 jumps in modern skydiving is nothing, 1 year doing 4 jumps a weekend!

BASEstore.it

[Skyjester 0]

Your tunnel-time will help a bit . . .but only if you absolute not count on it!

A Blade is up to now my favorite Suit but one of the last suit for beginner.
I am one of the black sheeps when it comes to 200 jump-rules and so on, but listen it is to early for you . . rent a tracksuit-use it for every jump from now. . .jump with wingsuiters if the let you join them.
Look what they do
With tunnel-time is it like the ace in the sleeve-you easy go "all inn" and the point to lose everything is even closer
it is a shame if you cause damage to the Blade

don´t pester the jester . . or better: WHY SO SERIOUS ? ?

www.pralle-zeiten.de

[pierre3636 0]

hi dude - i have more than 1000 freefly jumps and also a ton of freefly tunnel time. i also have about 1000 wing suit jumps and i am a wing suit instructor.

i know exactly what you mean in your question - ignore everyone that are being harsh and critical - people are people.

the thing with wing suiting isn’t so much flying the wing suit (when you do the first flight course) - thats the easy bit! esp if you have good body awareness and airtime. Its a lot more about the gear and the deployment. deployment is esp important in wing suiting since you have your arms movement limited (except in the new tony suits) until you unzip them and secondly because you have a giant big burble behind you also waiting for that one lazy pull to swallow your pilot chute. these issues are both deployment related and by far in my experience as a coach and wing suit flyer way more important than the actual flying (for beginners). you only learn about deployment and deployment body positioning by actually doing it! is 200 deployments enough to learn what you need to know about body position and general awareness during deployment ? perhaps ... one thing to also think about is that the highest probability mal function you will experience in a wing suit (esp in you first 200 flights) will be a spinning line twist. being sharp and on top of your deployments will help you deal with the situation when it arrives, good luck !

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[pilotdave 0]

Quote

rent a tracksuit-use it for every jump from now. . .

It's funny how different opinions can be. I'd give the exact opposite advice. Forget wingsuiting for now and focus on RW. I think it's a lot more useful and will help keep him from turning into a one-trick-wonder like so many wingsuiters. No offense.
Dave

[dragon2 2]

Quote

Quote

You know, it's either "Wow." or "Troll.". THAT is how dumb this post of yours is coming across.

He's asking advice, nothing dumb about that.

He SAYS he's asking for advice but also says he's gonna jump it anyway, basically, then asks for opinions of wingsuiters, well he's got mine. I'm not reading this as an honest question or asking for advice, had I done so my reply would've been different. However all I'm seeing is the "I've got mad skillz" that's been so popular lately, and he tops all I've seen so far with having just 35 jumps and having bought a Blade already (who sold him the suit anyway). Seriously, am I the only one who thinks "troll" here Also since he's not seen replying to any of this although granted that may have other reasons.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Pendragon 1]

It's simple. You still need the jump #s. You may have got good body-flying skills and the ability to recover from instability, but you won't have the in-air awareness (tracking relative to others, general navigational skills etc) that comes from practising in the sky.

That said, given your tunnel time, going straight to a bigger suit may be less of an issue than for others... although you should still probably use a smaller suit for your first flight.

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[k2xblade 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

You know, it's either "Wow." or "Troll.". THAT is how dumb this post of yours is coming across.

He's asking advice, nothing dumb about that.

He SAYS he's asking for advice but also says he's gonna jump it anyway, basically, then asks for opinions of wingsuiters, well he's got mine. I'm not reading this as an honest question or asking for advice, had I done so my reply would've been different. However all I'm seeing is the "I've got mad skillz" that's been so popular lately, and he tops all I've seen so far with having just 35 jumps and having bought a Blade already (who sold him the suit anyway). Seriously, am I the only one who thinks "troll" here Also since he's not seen replying to any of this although granted that may have other reasons.

i never said i'm GOING to jump it anyway, i'm def not jumping it at jump 36, i'm going to wait until i have more, i was simply seeking advice an there was no topic on this with the search feature, oh an the reason i havent replied is because i was unconscious....aka sleeping, so get off ur fuckin high horse, i dont want/care about your advice/opinion anyway


To everyone else, thanks for your help. I should've stated that i'm definitely not jumping it now, the only reason i bought it was because i would have never found a deal like that on the suit i wanted that fit me perfectly.

That being said i know i dont have the "air" time, i said that already, but 200 jumps just seems so far away to me right now, i try to jump every weekend, an just wearing the suit around my apt is killing me anybody think that 100-150 jumps is unreasonable?

[mccordia 74]

Quote

anybody think that 100-150 jumps is unreasonable?

What kind of feeling did you get when most people mentioned the words ABSOLUTE MINIMUM allong with 200?

And even thats few/little experience...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[JohanW 0]

If you work at a windtunnel, hey, just deploy (OK, with stability) 200 times. Problem solved. I'd let you jump the wingsuit then.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[MarkM 0]

Went up with tunnel rat up once on his first jump. He had the 200 jumps, but wasn't very current in the sky.

Body position was amazing. Stable. Very good form. Deployment body position was also great.

But he couldn't navigate for crap. Had to fly in front of him like 3 times to point him back towards the DZ.

Wingsuiting is more than your body control. It's deployment, navigation, flying around in tandem and student airspace, more complicated gear, etc etc. You need those 200 jumps for all of that. Those jumps give you a solid all around knowledge wingsuiting will test you against.

[dragon2 2]

Yeah, calling names comes off very mature and now I think completely different about your attitude.



Listen, about 10.000 jumps here in this thread alone say you need 200 jumps MINIMUM, including a wingsuit manufacturer, various wingsuit instructors and factoryteamjumpers, and STILL you have to ask, but if you can find one jumper who says "yeah sure, 100 jumps is fine" then go ahead, you got your validation right.

We're all just trying to keep you, the plane and other jumpers in one piece, pussyfooting around ain't gonna do that with an attitude like yours, but we've had plenty of lowtimer wingsuit accidents lately and if we can prevent you becoming a statistic I don't care what you call me (what's a female douchbag anyway? LOL).

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[unclecharlie95 3]

As you slide left of the mean the letters TROLL get larger and larger.

BASEstore.it

[mccordia 74]

Quote

in one piece, pussyfooting

a bit OT. but I have some exelent videos on this subject on my harddrive if anyone is interested...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[dragon2 2]

Quote

Quote

in one piece, pussyfooting

a bit OT. but I have some exelent videos on this subject on my harddrive if anyone is interested...

No thanx

Hey this is actually a thread that HAS been OT for quite a long time, and that in the wingsuit forum, must be a

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Stuuu 0]

I know your pain! It will drive a guy crazy owning a wingsuit and not being able to jump it. But, the time you spend researching and chatting with others about everything surrounding wingsuiting will give you a great foundation when the time comes to do your first flight course. There is a time to learn from reading and LISTENING and a time to learn from experience. Now is the time to LISTEN. Everyone posting here are VERY experienced wingsuit pilots- the advice given is to keep you safe as well as the other jumpers in the air with you. The time will come soon- just be patient. The reward is beyond words!! Rushing it could end with a short wingsuit career. Good luck. and long flights!! See you in the future.

[k2xblade 0]

Quote

I know your pain! It will drive a guy crazy owning a wingsuit and not being able to jump it. But, the time you spend researching and chatting with others about everything surrounding wingsuiting will give you a great foundation when the time comes to do your first flight course. There is a time to learn from reading and LISTENING and a time to learn from experience. Now is the time to LISTEN. Everyone posting here are VERY experienced wingsuit pilots- the advice given is to keep you safe as well as the other jumpers in the air with you. The time will come soon- just be patient. The reward is beyond words!! Rushing it could end with a short wingsuit career. Good luck. and long flights!! See you in the future.

ok thank you, this is what i was looking for.....

again, i never said i was going to jump it at 50, 75, or even 100 jumps, i was just looking for advice

i also never said i was against getting another beginner wingsuit and flying that first. You shouldnt assume things, an i also never said i had "mad skillz" blah blah blah, just that i have some body flight experience...blah blah blah, and everyone is different

an with this "use the search function" i realize you guys are tired of hearing the same thing over an over, but if people only searched, then whats a forum for? Theres not that many new posts, so why not get some people talking. Judging from the number of responses in the short amount of time this thread was up you guys were dying to say somethin.

Anyway, thanks for this post...im not trying to be a danger to anyone, my question just had different variables so i thought i'd ask.......wont be making that mistake again...


[edit] and Dragon2 sorry you misunderstood my first post, but im not sure i understand "with an attitude like yours", i asked trying to get advice, never saying forget what everyone else says im jumping, and you came back and attacked for no reason, i wasnt trying to start anything.....no more questions outta me, dont worry

[mccordia 74]

The answer was also in the 'Read this first' thread on the top..so the search function, though handy, wouldnt have been needed anyways..

But I think many people here respond passive/agressive due to a few too many people asking this same question, and after 100 replies all saying the same thing (NO! 200 at leeeast!) see them listening to the one person who tells them 'its okay' and doing things prematurly anyways..

And though there may be a new baby jesus in there somewhere who flies and walks on water without any previous experience, the examples I know all did less than perfect, and gave themselves a frustrated (and sometimes scary) first flight experience...instead of a relaxed and fun one..and thats outside of general safety issues for themselves and others...


Good one you for making the commitment on wanting to fly a wingsuit this early, and already buying a suit you would want to fly in a few hundred jumps.

But also remember, that though the suit may have been available at a good price now, as new models come allong, the prices drop on the older ones...its sadly not like cars, where the older ones increase in vallue (though some people selling 2nd hand suits do seem to think so at times, when you look at the prices)

If/when you are ready for a first flight, I have no doubt in my mind 90% of the people here would be willing to assist you in your first flight and further coaching on your wingsuit career...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Skyjester 0]

Many people dont like RW (me includet) and rather be one-trick wonder (me includet)

don´t pester the jester . . or better: WHY SO SERIOUS ? ?

www.pralle-zeiten.de