Zeemax 0 #1 March 20, 2009 Just seen a couple of links in the UK press for wingsuit flying http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2331202.ece?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5021868/Human-Red-Arrows-perform-displays-at-13000ft.html Newesh story, but the footage / pictures are a couple of years old... Still, it means i'm still in it. Fame at last.. ha ha Good to see more positive coverage in the media for our sport. Well done to the TG boys. Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #2 March 20, 2009 And another one HERE"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #3 March 20, 2009 Nice, although it irks me when a media company's web department can't figure out how to render JPG's for the web. www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #4 March 20, 2009 Quote Nice, although it irks me when a media company's web department can't figure out how to render JPG's for the web. Or also give the other cameraflyer a hint of credit for shooting half, and actually editing the video on which the article is based (and never agreed/signed/or even knew about the use of this video as part of a commercial interview/picture sale)....JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #5 March 21, 2009 And nice to see Jari/Birdman hand out/sell my edit to more websites and even a news-agency who sells/redistributes the video. Its not a video-edit Birdman owns and/or has rights to sell/distribute (on top of that, without proper credit for who edited it OR who shot a large part of the freefall footage, in any of the interviews) But I guess its much like the soon to be released wingsuit 'designed' by the same company. Who cares who did the actual work......JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flusspirat 0 #6 March 21, 2009 well, did they pay for your jump tickets? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #7 March 21, 2009 Wha? Where did that idea come from? Birdman payd my jumps hahaha... I never had one single jump payd or anything at all by the company, and every single wingsuit from that brand Ive owned has been one I payd for myself with hard work and euros I worked my ass off for... Aside from the company owing me money for R&D work, there isnt a single euro I ever recieved from that direction.. So yea..this stuff (them selling/distributing my video editing work without prior asking like its their property) leaves me with a bit of a bad taste...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #8 March 21, 2009 Great flying(bet Yuri wouldn't go near it for his D/L Hall of fame) and fantastic video. As far as companies taking advantage, don't blame them. It's not personal, it's just business. Don't turn in your videos/edits to someone without specifying your expectation on the credit you expect to get. In fact, get some kind of a written agreement even if it is just an email on your working arrangements. Kris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hagen 0 #9 March 21, 2009 I don't know how it happens in UK - hope Mark will tell us - but here we, the press (I've been working in different publications for all my life) normally try to get and get stuff like this for free. I mean, for example now I'm preparing an article about extreme travels. or unusual travels. like those with the aim to jump a tandem in Himalaya. or to climb a mountain. and I'm getting photo materials illustrating the text from the travels' organizers FOR FREE. you may remember the case when you was paid by the magazine I fork for for one picture of TopGun guys flying their wingsuits. but believe me - that was a personal favor from my side. I mean, I persuaded my chief that we wouldn't be able to get a better pic and so we need to pay - even though we could (and maybe should) get not worse pics for free. anyway, there is a very simple rule: if you want to be paid - make a contract and get the payment. if you don't do it - do not complain afterward. I think that the guys just forgot that you're not a team anymore - though personally I don't blame my ex teams for this or that, I'm always proud of the fact that I was a member of this or that team, and of course, I don't tell bs about my exs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hagen 0 #10 March 21, 2009 oh! I actually wanted to write how good it is when wingsuits appear in the press great job! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gadget 0 #11 March 21, 2009 To put in my two cents. I don't see Jarno bitching anywhere about money but he is bitching about the fact that there is no where a hint of his name or a credit for his work (camerawise or editing wise). The one starting about money is you.So please let us get back to the real isue of crediting people for the work they have done. It is always nice to see your name with a piece of work welldone.If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren't people from Holland called Holes??? My logbook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #12 March 21, 2009 Its not even solely the credit, but most of all just someone ASKING beforehand. Im not out for money. I just want to know where and when stuff I edit is being used. And also having Birdman pay for the rights for the music used (instead of dumping THAT on me) Lena> like pictures for magazines, or the footage we gave to the Ukrainian TV last year. That was all done with the photographers/editors approval. How would the people from the 71 way feel, if I was to start giving their footage/photos to local TV stations and magazines here, because I felt it was good press. But doing that without asking ANY of the people owning the footage. Or (which is what happened here) on top of that handing it to a press agency who is now selling/offering that video. Its not at all about money...it about permission of the owner of a work. If they had handed in a seperate edit with just Marks footage that would have been great. But in this case, half of the footage was mine, as was the edit. And I like having a say (or at least KNOW) where its used.. A nice article...for sure..but how would mark feel if that interview had been about me and I used his pictures/video without his knowledge/permission beforehand?JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #13 March 21, 2009 Quote Its not at all about money...it about permission of the owner of a work. If they had handed in a seperate edit with just Marks footage that would have been great. But in this case, half of the footage was mine, as was the edit. And I like having a say (or at least KNOW) where its used.. A nice article...for sure..but how would mark feel if that interview had been about me and I used his pictures/video without his knowledge/permission beforehand? This is a simple question, one that would be ever so easily handled in the USA (And Holland, the UK, and Finland are all signatories of the Berne Convention,", as copyright (literally the "right" to "copy" is easily managed in this sort of instance. Deciding to enact and enforce your rights to copy isn't an easy thing to do in a small community. Cutting someone else' edit into yours turns theirs into a derivative work, which is equally illegal in all three countries. Using copyrighted music falls into the same category. [edit] Lena, one doesn't sue a newspaper for infringement as a first action. One notifies the newspaper of the infringement. The newspaper or other publishing body believes in good faith that what they're given to publish is free of encumbrance. They would have no reason to suspect otherwise. Once published, the damage to a photograph or video (loss of value) has occurred and the value may never be regained. Suing over something as small as this becomes a *very* expensive game of principle vs prudence. Working for a magazine, I'm a little surprised you wouldn't know this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hagen 0 #14 March 21, 2009 no, I wasn't the one who started to dream up about commercial nature of the purely journalistic/unbiassed articles and Birdman making money on someone's hard workmccordia, if you just wanted to clear the situation, you would have first discussed it with the one who posted the photos/vids. or sued the newspapers for violating your rights. now it looks like just your complains again. start doing something instead of just blaming people for offending poor you. the articles are still nice , and I like people commenting them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yuri_base 1 #15 March 21, 2009 Quote Great flying(bet Yuri wouldn't go near it for his D/L Hall of fame) Agree. That's what flocking should be in the first place! (f20cking vs. f10cking) Only slightly bent limbs - virtually unnoticeable, tight flock with no oscillations, narrow smoke trails. Pleasure to watch. Kudos. Perhaps, organizers of gazillion-ways, photogs with hyperinflated egos, and brainless f10cking meat from the other side of the pond should come to you euro boys to learn the basics. But I doubt this will happen. As Voodew1 said, "nobody really thinks about this shit it is just the way it is".Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps: L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP iOS only: L/D Magic Windows only: WS Studio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #16 March 22, 2009 Lena, you're always pretty quick judging against me on situations where you have little to no background information. The people and parties involved have been notified from the start, and choosen ignoring and silence as an answer. Distributing other peoples work witout prior notification and /or permission is just bad form... Ive never ben known to ask money, be a bad sport about giving video to media etc. All I ask is knowing what happens with my work...and when people dont do so and treat my work as their poperty (esp. after a lot of other events that have occured) I am just disappointed and angry at the way they do business... tonysuit, pf and all other people Ive worked with are much more human and correct at this...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #17 March 23, 2009 Quote As far as companies taking advantage, don't blame them. It's not personal, it's just business. That's bullshit, man. Being a company doesn't mean you get a free pass on breaking the rules/ screwing someone overDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #18 March 23, 2009 Quote start doing something instead of just blaming people for offending poor you. Do you seriously mean to imply that Jarno doesn't "do things" for the WS community? How about... like edit the very video we're discussing now? Thanks for my laugh of the week. www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hagen 0 #19 March 23, 2009 I mean doing smth instead of complaining about people hurting him (by not paying him, by stealing his vids and so onbut it's boring to go on - when I do my own videos, I will either sell them or give them without complaining about their posting. catch me if I'll break the promise Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeemax 0 #20 March 23, 2009 The difference being of course that Jarno makes a living out of video editing Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jari 0 #21 March 24, 2009 QuoteAnd nice to see Jari/Birdman hand out/sell my edit to more websites and even a news-agency who sells/redistributes the video. Its not a video-edit Birdman owns and/or has rights to sell/distribute (on top of that, without proper credit for who edited it OR who shot a large part of the freefall footage, in any of the interviews) The video of the team you are talking about was made by you for the team to share with everybody. It's been uploaded to many different sites over the net and is available for everybody. Birdman or I have not sold, redistributed or handed out ANY video in ANY format that you are talking about. We have given an interview for the magazine and made a deal about pictures, NOT about this or any other video or video footage, not yours or Marks or anybody's. Your claim that we sold / handed out / redistributed your footage is completely false. Just a thought. Imagine, there was a time when all skydivers were happy to get such a good publicity for the sport. Now we got an individual who is trying to dismiss and deny it from his ex-team and fellow skydivers, only because he edited the video for the team. So, my question is, even if our team video that you edited was shown and distributed by us (which it wasn't), what's the problem? I am personally sorry for the tone of this conversation here. I really hoped this could be a happy thing. I am not going to continue this discussion here in the forum. Blue ones, Jari http://www.bird-man.com/frontpage/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #22 March 24, 2009 The video was at a commercial agency, that specificly mentioned getting approval for use from Birdman/Jari. Regardless if you misunderstood what was asked, or it was a whole other matter. the video was available at a press agency. And no contracts where signed for that, especialy in terms of accountability and copyright. Had this been mentioned to be beforehand, we could have sorted something and also sorted music rights. And I would have gladly done so for free, as all the work ive done in the past for birdman with regards to logo, adverts, videos etc. The publicity for Mark is awesome and well deserved. But making sure all materials used in promotion are completely legal and all sorted with regards to permissions and use of (copyrighted) music is also part of that. And just (without sorting that out with involved parties first) doing so, is just bad form. The email conversation you and I are having at the moment says enough, and is not one that needs to go public beyond whats been said here. Friendship and promotion of the sport are two things I strongly stand for. As was my strong stance for Birdman in the past. But things changed in that equation. And when somebody mixed business into that one, it showed an ugly side of some people I dont really like. I hope Mark and TopGun get many more articles and mentions in the media due to this. And hope that we may see lots of orginal and new material coming from the team and birdman as a company soon.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hagen 0 #23 March 24, 2009 ыщгтds like you think that without your vid no one would read the articles you're a king indeedI don't remember and don't want to rewatch the illegal video... but isn't there your credits in it? I think that after such a publicity you'll have much more clients as you have now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #24 March 24, 2009 Lena...I actually asked if they could remove the video, so it would be just the photos and article. But glad to hear Im the king...nice to share a thrown with DSE who is the king of D/L..JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #25 March 24, 2009 Quote Lena...I actually asked if they could remove the video, so it would be just the photos and article. But glad to hear Im the king...nice to share a thrown with DSE who is the king of D/L.. I'm flattered, Jarno, but I refuse to share my throne with ANYONE. Even you. Yuri made me a king, and by god, I wear my crown proudly. Any honor bestowed by Juri is worth far more than the spittle I expended when I received the honor. Find your own throne. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
