Hagen 0 #1 April 5, 2009 I tried on a Phantom 2 this weekend - belonging to a guy but small enough for me to try it in the sky later on. The suit looks nice but the width of the leg wing surprised me a bit. I mean, I've tried not so many wingsuits by now but their leg wings were always significantly narrower. Then I noticed that it looks like not only PF but also other ws manufacturers introduce the suits with wider leg wings quite actively these days. But can someone explain stupid me what's the reason of this feature!? I mean, I can't catch how the wider wings improve aerodynamic characteristic of the suits - they can make them bigger and more mattress-like... but how else do they improve the flying? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #2 April 5, 2009 QuoteI tried on a Phantom 2 this weekend - belonging to a guy but small enough for me to try it in the sky later on. The suit looks nice but the width of the leg wing surprised me a bit. I mean, I've tried not so many wingsuits by now but their leg wings were always significantly narrower. Then I noticed that it looks like not only PF but also other ws manufacturers introduce the suits with wider leg wings quite actively these days. But can someone explain stupid me what's the reason of this feature!? I mean, I can't catch how the wider wings improve aerodynamic characteristic of the suits - they can make them bigger and more mattress-like... but how else do they improve the flying? Wide legs improve stability over narrow legs. Improved stability improves flying. PS: Let's face it, we're not flying, we're gliding at best, falling at worst."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #3 April 5, 2009 u should try an XS7 then! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hagen 0 #4 April 5, 2009 but on the other hand the wider leg wing kind of 'brakes' the speed - I mean, its horizontal speed, isn't it? I can understand how it can help at landing in base jumping... but still feel not sure about the cross like body position a pilot should get while flying a ws with wide leg wing on it's full range. but I must be just wrong, and I'd like to hear some other counterarguments to make sure that I really am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #5 April 5, 2009 Quotebut on the other hand the wider leg wing kind of 'brakes' the speed Why would it? It's loads of extra surface area behind the CofG, seems perfect for more thrust to me.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #6 April 6, 2009 Quote but on the other hand the wider leg wing kind of 'brakes' the speed - I mean, its horizontal speed, isn't it? How does it 'brake' the speed? If properly used, it is more fabric deflecting more air ... Quote I can understand how it can help at landing in base jumping... but still feel not sure about the cross like body position a pilot should get while flying a ws with wide leg wing on it's full range. Do you think the Phantom has a wide leg wing? Do you think the skydivers in this picture (in the Phantoms) have the cross like body position? Quote but I must be just wrong, and I'd like to hear some other counterarguments to make sure that I really am We don't fly, we barely glide ... the person with the biggest wingsuit and the best skills dominates, all the other combinations just fall in line."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommyh 0 #7 April 6, 2009 Try and think of it like this: Higher performance suits tend to have larger wings (arms and legs). The size of the legwing should be big enough to tip you forward (head slightly below the horizon). This can be done by making it either longer or wider. If the suit designer has brought the edge of the wing down to the tips of the tows and doesn't want to extend it past the toes then the legwing must be made wider. Remember that as the armwing size increases, the legwing size must also increase to keep you at the correct angle. The other reason for making a legwing wider instead of longer was mentioned above. It will improve stability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #8 April 6, 2009 QuoteIt's loads of extra surface area behind the CofG, seems perfect for more thrust to me. There is no thrust in gliding...www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #9 April 6, 2009 A wide legwing is part of what sets the pitch angle of a wingsuit. This is what determines the forward drive (speed/glide), allong with previously mentioned improved stability.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hagen 0 #10 April 6, 2009 thanks for the explanation. poor beginners having to fly the unstable suits with narrow leg wings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #11 April 6, 2009 Beginners also fly suits with quite a nice/wide legstance. The wider ones do give additional stability, and its a feature you find in almost all newer introduction/starting level wingsuits. The Skyflyer1 is roughly the only wingsuit out there with a legstance so small it could be called 'unstable'. But even on that one, its only noticable when pushing for maximum flight. And as to your thread title...no single question is stupid...the only stupid question is the one that isnt asked while wanting to know.. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #12 April 6, 2009 QuotePS: Let's face it, we're not flying, we're gliding at best, falling at worst.How is gliding not flying?Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pierre3636 0 #13 April 6, 2009 what jarno said ... ~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #14 April 6, 2009 Quotewhat jarno said ... The stuff about the pony, or the wingsuit comments?JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #15 April 6, 2009 QuoteQuoteIt's loads of extra surface area behind the CofG, seems perfect for more thrust to me. There is no thrust in gliding... Ok then, more forward component of 'lift'.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #16 April 6, 2009 Quote thanks for the explanation. poor beginners having to fly the unstable suits with narrow leg wings And then there's the Skyflyer 1... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #17 April 7, 2009 QuoteHow is gliding not flying? It's not even gliding, it's falling. While gliding you can gain altitude using thermals (glider, paraglider, hang-glider). With a wingsuit you're just falling really slower than a guy without one, but you have a huge forward speed. I always thought that flying is when you gain or not lose altitude..."Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #18 April 8, 2009 Well, we disagree. My definition of flying involves one or more wings, and lift. Thrust does not enter into it. A plane that shuts down its engine does not (necessarily) suddenly stop flying. Nor does a rocket fly because it gains altitude. Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bdrake529 0 #19 April 8, 2009 While I agree that flying is a generous term, falling is also not accurate. Giiding seems to be a fair compromise. Drop a rock of a cliff and watch it fall straight down. Then watch an experienced wingsuit BASE jumper launch off the same cliff. Does he/she really just fall? When they open their chute more than a mile away horizontally, after precisely guiding their body mere feet away from the terrain, isn't that something more than just....falling. It's my own arbitrary classification, but I propose that (disregarding horizontal winds): Something without a glide ratio is falling Something with a glide ratio (regardless of how "pathetic" in comparison to other things) is gliding. Something that can willfully sustain/gain altitude is flyingBrian Drake Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #20 April 8, 2009 Quote Something with a glide ratio (regardless of how "pathetic" in comparison to other things) is gliding. Something that can willfully sustain/gain altitude is flying You nailed it here pretty well "Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Costyn 1 #21 April 8, 2009 Quote It's my own arbitrary classification, but I propose that (disregarding horizontal winds): Something without a glide ratio is falling Something with a glide ratio (regardless of how "pathetic" in comparison to other things) is gliding. Something that can willfully sustain/gain altitude is flying Pretty good definition, but where would you place gliders and paragliders that can gain altitude by using thermals? I guess it would be ok to say they are flying? They can't keep their altitude indefinitely, but neither can an airplane with engines, which will run out of fuel eventually. Cheers, Costyn.Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LederHose 0 #22 April 8, 2009 How about this one? If it is in control - it is flying If it is out of control - it is falling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #23 April 8, 2009 Where would you class a paper glider without any form of remote control? Or OTH DeLand Fire, or Mandarin? (or Fly Like Brick .. no, not going there ) (Sorry 'bout the thread drift Hagen Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #24 April 8, 2009 Depending on which language you speak, most dictionaries define flying as 'having control over ones direction' and would thereby even class normal freefall as flying.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hagen 0 #25 April 8, 2009 the definitions imply not simply having control but also using this or that method of movement. wikipedia says: "Flight is the process by which an object moves either through the air, or movement beyond earth's atmosphere (as in the case of spaceflight), by aerodynamically generating lift, propulsive thrust or aerostatically using buoyancy, or by simple ballistic movement." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites