TONYSUIT X-Bird

[sdctlc 0]

I agree with what every body has been talking about with the experience level of you and the correct suit to jump so I wont add...

That said, what I will add is that I love the exits from the SkyVan. Fav was the Guy in the Black and Grey T-Bird (looks like) at 52 sec! He jumps up after turning around and completely opens up, hovering in the door, filling it up and waiting for the fun to begin. As soon as he hits the lower wind stream with the tail, BAAMMMMM, he is doing head down relative to the wind. Gave me my chuckle for the Morning!

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[skyjumpsteve 0]

Quote

***Does anyone have anything to offer on actually flying the X? Is it a good choice for flocking? I had some other questions but nobody answered them

Fasted3 - I think very very few people have flown one much less own one so there are not a lot of people that can give you constructive criticism yet. By the end of the summer a lot more people will have had an opportunity to fly one so you can probably get a lot more answers to your questions. The 2 that I have seen flock perfectly fine but the people flying them are very experienced.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

Its WIDE legwings that are more prone to flatspins.
Akin to a big propelor-blade, spinning the legs around the body.

LOL. If you let it develop so far. I'd go for a delta with loose arm wings and big arch instead..... Than move back to relaxed flight.

Quote

Though bragworthy you (like 90% of wingsuit flyers) havent experienced a flatspin before. To me it just says you're an pussy who isnt trying hard enoughTongueWink

Nice, and in case of pink suit you'd call me g1.....

[mccordia 74]

Quote

LOL. If you let it develop so far. I'd go for a delta with loose arm wings and big arch instead..... Than move back to relaxed flight.

Those are controlled spins..lets hope it remains a mystery for most people...

But Ill show it in a week or 3...I have a nice one from Scotty Burns on tape, captured during Zflock (video is 30% done)
Its instantanious, and I think he does about 1080 degrees of spin, in less than a second out of the door. He balls up, and goes back into full flight, textbook.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[fasted3 0]

I agree and wait for more reports about flying these new suits. The people I asked have already had some time in them and and were the ones I was hoping to hear from.
I assume they would have some input about deploying in the new wing.
Maybe they would have some comments about flying with small-wing suits.
Just askin'.

But what do I know?

[peggs82 0]

Ed - and everyone else who is interested....

I guess I will attempt to answer your questions about the suit a bit.

As I've said all ready, I love love love this suit. I have a great deal of fun with it. It really is the closest to FLYING I've ever felt.

-WARNING - The following statements are for QUALIFIED pilots to make informed decisions. If you have 4 wingsuit jumps, still read this and be informed, but don't assume that this is a suit for say... a beginner.

Overall, compared to flying the XS, it is a much much much easier suit to fly. For those of you who have flown the XS, you will find your transition into this suit painless and wonderful. My biggest surprise was the disappearance of the "washy-ness" at slow speeds. It seems to fly a lot straighter (in slow flight), and I attribute that to cutting the un-necessary drag from the arm wings.

Tony offered, and I accepted a more "swept back" arm wing, and it has made all the difference for my stamina during the long flights. (As a side note, my arms on my XS were almost 90 degrees...very tiring)

Both float and forward speed are great. once I settle in, get a slight pitch to my body, I just feel the forward speed while watching everyone else fall way below and behind me. Its great. I feel that the suit is easier to fly on those long flights. I don't fight it as much when I am going for time. I'll admit I am a little sore today, but that is probably because I am a bit out of Wingsuit shape!!

Concerning your direct questions ed about using it in flocks:

It is a personal decision. Compared to flying an XS in a flock, I lovvvveee the X-Bird. I feel much less washy in the slow forward speeds...so that is good. The suit has great range. Will it be my choice for small weekend fun dives? Yes...Absolutely! Its great fun! I've jumped it more in 1 weekend than I ever did my XS. Its that fun and versatile!

I cannot say right now (based on my limited experience with it) that I would take it on the upcoming bigways. As I have said MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY times on this forum, I rarely ever recommend a large suit for serious flocking. It is simply un-necessary for the average sized person to have the biggest suit out there. I prefer a suit that puts me in the middle of my range. Would I try to fly a 747 in a flock of Cessna 182's? No! Pick the right tool! I will continue to fly my Raptor (or maybe an R-Bird soon) for serious slot specific flying. Dress for success!

Ed on Deployment -
Well, I don't really know what to tell you here, Ed. The X-Bird is really not that huge of a step up (deployment wise) from a SM1. Deploying in a X-Bird, is really just a continuation of skills you should have mastered on your previous suit before deciding to "upsize". On all suits that "concern" me, I release my grippers, and quickly "flick" my wrists behind my wing....then proceed to pull. Practice deployments...and pulling higher are all good ideas on your first jump in the X-Bird.

Good luck everyone! Its an amazing suit! Hope I didn't gloss over any questions...I just tried to respond rather quickly.

[fasted3 0]

Phil, This is very useful for what I was asking about, and I do agree with you that it is not a subject for new wingsuit pilots, although it it of interest to all I bet. The 'washyness' of the SM1 has been a problem from the time I got it. That, combined with the loose fit has made this suit a chore from the get-go. I'm ready for something else and think I could probably fly any suit after a while. One main concern I had was the difference in material out at the end of the wing. I had no trouble with that before, but the configuration of this wing is different and I thought I'd ask.
Thanks for the great answers to that and more. Hey Tony, what do you want for one of these bad boys?

But what do I know?

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

But Ill show it in a week or 3...I have a nice one from Scotty Burns on tape, captured during Zflock (video is 30% done)
Its instantanious, and I think he does about 1080 degrees of spin, in less than a second out of the door. He balls up, and goes back into full flight, textbook.

So far, I got some spin from the door, pulled out from flight by docking, pushed out and had 4 rodeos with some spining, rolling after exit. I don't consider myself an exceptional pilot, so I suspect that suit design has something to do with the tendency of going to flat spin.

I got 200+ flights on a Phantom and 20+ on Stealth.

[mccordia 74]

I have about 750 wingsuit flights, and one spin doing a weird, and way to fast diving transition to backfly, started spinning so fast I couldnt believe it. Like someone grabbed my feet and swung me around. Didnt stop with arching/lazy delta track. Went to a ball, rolled over and went back into flying.

Also have several friends pushing 500 to 800 wingsuit jumps who never experienced it. I do suspect (as lurch sayd in the other thread) it gets harder and harder to get into such spins as your skills increase. But ask Pierre about his recent flatspin adventures.

I dare call him one of the most experienced flyers around, and he spent 7000ft on his back, spinning in one of the more recent 'big suits'.

Nobody is trying to convert you to the church of flatspin. If you're a happy man flying, and there is not such thing as a flatspin to you. Then why worry about it. Treat it like a religion, and let everyone be happy in what he or she believes.

But everyone must agree that bigger wingsuits pose a lot of extra risks and challenges (esp. when things go south) to the lesser skills. And 4 jumps is by far not the recommended experience level required to fly something like this.

The bigger the suit, the less feeling of what you're actually doing.
Flying a smaller suit, and having to work to fly, instead of always doing the lazy hammock chilling in wings 3 times bigger than the jump you're making requires you to do. It just makes you a better flyer if you're FLYING instead of always only using 50% or less of a suits performance.

And esp. concidering aerobatics, smaller suits are just easier to learn. And WILL make you a better flyer when you go back to your big one..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

But everyone must agree that bigger wingsuits pose a lot of extra risks and challenges (esp. when things go south) to the lesser skills. And 4 jumps is by far not the recommended experience level required to fly something like this.

I have seen someone having a PC in the tow after a bit lazy throw. It was her 2nd WS jump.

Quote

And esp. concidering aerobatics, smaller suits are just easier to learn. And WILL make you a better flyer when you go back to your big one..

Agree. I had difficulties to collapse my air-locked leg wing for deployment.

Quote

The bigger the suit, the less feeling of what you're actually doing.
Flying a smaller suit, and having to work to fly, instead of always doing the lazy hammock chilling in wings 3 times bigger than the jump you're making requires you to do. It just makes you a better flyer if you're FLYING instead of always only using 50% or less of a suits performance.

Everyone starts flying Blade over here even as a first suit. I'm on the heavy side, so I can not keep up level with them with a Phantom.

[Deniq 0]

Quote

I was able to have an avg 33 mph skydive, with 3:20 length on the first jump. First jump!!

Hi Justin,
how is your progress with X-Bird? Is 33 mph (or better) reproducible outcome?
When can see skydive-community your evidences (GPS, screenshots from Neptune etc.) to this data?

[PhoenixRising 0]

My personal results....yes. I am getting 30mph lows on almost every jump. now over 100 jumps on the suit. I have been slowly getting it down, the slowest so far is 24 mph.

I am on the road now, without my altitrack (i forgot it) convienent huh?

But scotty will send it to me and I can upload pics from the readout if you would like.

Justin

Wingsuit organizing, first flight courses and coaching
Flock University
Tonysuits

[The111 1]

Quote

My personal results....yes. I am getting 30mph lows on almost every jump. now over 100 jumps on the suit. I have been slowly getting it down, the slowest so far is 24 mph.

Damn, 100 wingsuit jumps in 3 weeks?

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[michalm21 2]

Quote

Quote

My personal results....yes. I am getting 30mph lows on almost every jump. now over 100 jumps on the suit. I have been slowly getting it down, the slowest so far is 24 mph.

Damn, 100 wingsuit jumps in 3 weeks?

that is hardcore - he doesn't fuck around

[bdrake529 0]

First the T-Bird, then the X-Bird which is a T-Bird with an XS tailwing, correct?

I've also heard of the R-Bird and Jade's crowing about his new S-Bird (which he claims is much faster than his X-Bird).

Are those T-Birds with Raptor and SuperMach leg-wings (respectively)? What's the breakdown on these new suits?

Brian Drake

[chrisgray 0]

I haven't had the pleasure of flying the X-Bird yet but I am very much looking forward to it. After hearing what Justin & Phil have said about the suit it sounds simply amazing.

In comparing their reviews of the X-Bird to my own SM1 (very early production SM1 as in 1 of the first 5 or so sold) that I have flown for a long time now and love it very much, it seems the fallrate is better but not by much. Although the X-Bird armwing actually seems smaller than a XS and maybe even my SM1 (my armwings are cut slightly bigger than normal for my height). The huge improvement seems to be in reduction of drag which makes the suit insanely faster forward. Compare that to my SM1 which I have had as slow as 28 mph and is no problem getting into the low 30s but at that fallrate the forward speed is not that impressive. It also sounds like the overall flight dynamics and crispness of handling is a far improvement. By contrast my SM1 is such a large tarp that when I fly another suit like a Raptor (which is a great suit) it feels as if I don't have anything on at all.

I would love to hear any comment from Justin, Jeff or Phil in response to my conclusions above.

As Brian requested, a product break-down on the new X line of suits would be great.

Thanks guys for the reports on the new suits!!

WSI-6 / PFI-55
The Brothers Gray Wingsuit Academy
http://www.myspace.com/cgwingsuitpilot
http://www.myspace.com/thebrothersgray

[PhoenixRising 0]

I have had the suit since june 1, I jump everyday.
J

Wingsuit organizing, first flight courses and coaching
Flock University
Tonysuits

[PhoenixRising 0]

Suit Breakdown:

T-Bird: The arm wing is the SM1 arm with the T-Bird cut. Trailing edge on ALL the suits are perpendicular to the line of flight. The tail wing is shorter than the raptor, but slightly wider.

R-Bird: Same arm wing as the T-Bird. Leg wing is the same as the raptor. which is longer than the T-Bird leg.

S-Bird: Same arm wing as the T-Bird, but now with a two inch longer gripper. Leg wing is the same as the SM1 leg. Approx 4 inches past feet.

X-Bird: XS with T-Bird cut arm wing. Trailing edge is perpendicular to the line of flight. Leg wing is 4 inches longer than the SM1 leg.

All the suits have the new foam booties. and mini ribs on the trailing edge to reduce drag. The leading edges are cleaned up, and the inlets are moved.

Overall these suits perform very well. I have flown them all. Personally I say the S-Bird is the best all around weapon. The T-bird is by far the best choice for flocking. Easy to use, HUGE range and great for backflying etc.

I found the X-Bird difficult to flock in faster fall rates mostly because the suit DOES NOT WANT TO STOP. I don't recommend this suit for flocking, especially in the wrong hands. It took me a few jumps to dial it in and quiet it down. But i am still approaching flocks with caution, as the suit gererates scary forward speed.

Seeing Matt Gold fly his S-bird in flocks this weekend, I noticed the same thing happening to him. Once SDC told him to let go of his grippers, he flew in a flock much better. The suit is almost too responsive and becomes twitchy while flocking because of over correcting.

Justin

Wingsuit organizing, first flight courses and coaching
Flock University
Tonysuits

[mccordia 74]

Quote

The suit is almost too responsive and becomes twitchy while flocking because of over correcting

This is a problem on any wingsuit that has a low wingroot.
The armwing influences the legs, and leg-motions influence the armwings.
And both actions have opposing results in movement.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[PhoenixRising 0]

I understand your point, but I have been flying long wingroot arm wings for thousands of jumps now. When I flocked my XS it was easier to stay quiet. It has the same root. The X-Bird is much more responsive, less mushy(per say) so when you make a movement it does it quicker.

Justin

Wingsuit organizing, first flight courses and coaching
Flock University
Tonysuits

[VectorBoy 0]

All the suits have the new foam booties. and mini ribs on the trailing edge to reduce drag. The leading edges are cleaned up, and the inlets are moved.

Justin

[KrisFlyZ 0]

Quote

All the suits have the new foam booties. and mini ribs on the trailing edge to reduce drag. The leading edges are cleaned up, and the inlets are moved.

Justin

Justin,

Do you have a picture of the new arm wing inlet details that you can post?

Ok, he beat me to it.

Thanks,
Kris

[Sangi 0]

So Phoenix, what's the point of a WS in skydiving if it sucks at flocking (as far as I see wingsuit skydiving is all about flocking, correct me if I'm wrong), why make such a suit?

...oh and when the hell will I see the pictures of all these s,t,r etc birds?!

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[Butters 0]

Quote

So Phoenix, what's the point of a WS in skydiving if it sucks at flocking (as far as I see wingsuit skydiving is all about flocking, correct me if I'm wrong), why make such a suit?

As usual, you're wrong ... why don't you do us (and yourself) a favor and stop posting and start reading.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[SuperGirl 0]

Quote

So Phoenix, what's the point of a WS in skydiving if it sucks at flocking (as far as I see wingsuit skydiving is all about flocking, correct me if I'm wrong), why make such a suit?

dude you really crack me up.
too funny.
are you trying really hard to be a better than ever troll or what?
I'd assume that by now you've been postwhoring on here enough to have at least read some of Yuri's L/D - D/L threads to answer your own question. Wingsuiting is all about flocking just like skydiving is all about RW (or VRW, or CRW).

Quote

...oh and when the hell will I see the pictures of all these s,t,r etc birds?!

when you start jumping your ass off
what difference does it make? it's not like you're gonna buy one tomorrow. You got a very comprehensive explanation above. Take the various suits featured on Tony's website, and apply the Bird mods and voila! You get the respective
If you're really that interested, go find Tony. He's travelling around Europe these days if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure he'd be happy to show you all his suits, as long as you promise to be good and not fly them until you have the proper experience required.