Tandem Flybys:

[VectorBoy 0]

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The story, relayed to me by a TI who alleged that a wingsuiter either struck his canopy, or was close enough to have burbled him hard. I have no reason to doubt him.

The TI should have addressed this at the time with the people involved. The story relayed or re-relayed or convoluted into something it isn't should never be presented without hard facts of time and place and personnel in question in front of the BOD or FAA, that serves no body.

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I said "The recommendations are bullshit and a fucking joke, people laugh at them all over the world."

You are wrong the bulk of all wingsuiters we know today have successfully been trained with methods that fall within these recommendations. It is fair that most of us are within the guidlines of the recommendations. They are not a joke to me. They are a reliable reference. Not everybody follows them and we even have some dire examples of not following them.

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A WSI rating or merely a USPA-adopted syllabus isnt going to prevent anyone from dying during a tandem flyby, striking an aircraft on downwind/base/final, or wingsuiters striking each other (or someone else) in a cloud. All the rating or syllabus will accomplish is making people aware that these things can be/are dangerous and should be carefully considered .

I must be obtuse. How is a special syllabus or rating going to make people more "aware" that these practices are dangerous than the current method does not?

[VectorBoy 0]

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{editd to add} the only "fear-mongering" that is occurring here is the FUD being spread by those opposed to a wingsuit instructor rating, most of whom admit they don't teach.

There is a fear that statements made in order to prove recklessness in the wingsuit community are not always based on fact. The statement that the recommendations are bullshit and a joke is in itself false. Follow them they work, will continue to work just fine. I will admit I haven't done a first flight course in four years but have done plenty and my students saw me. But you have a very self defeating view of instruction with a myoptic focus on the first flight. The first flight is just a taste. Instruction is ever ongoing. We are all teachers and we should all be learning continously. Not just the heros of the first flight instructor program.

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A US-standardized program (that is supported by most of the wingsuit manufacturers and many instructors) is far better than no standard at all, which is currently what we have for instruction.

Will the Norwegians approve of the US standardized program? And I'd like to remind you we do have a standard now. A standard set recommendations have proved themselves for a decade.

***Back to tandem flybys....The FAA came to US saying they're watching. They're watching. On YouTube, Vimeo, etc. If you think that needs to be blamed on someone, fine. Blame the people that post that content so it can be seen by the FAA.

[cpoxon 0]

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Specifically, I was told that the moment there is a tandem/wingsuit incident that involves any injury to the student, skydiving across the US will be *immediately* shut down, all tandem rigs grounded by the FAA, just like they ground aircraft that have an "unknown" or known problem that needs repair. This grounding would last for the duration of any investigation. Said grounding might be a day, month, or up to a year.
Empty threat or serious concern? I dunno.

I dunno either but it would seem disproportionate, especially in the light of two people falling out of tandem harnesses yet similar action was not taken.

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[bdrake529 0]

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If you think that needs to be blamed on someone, fine. Blame the people that post that content so it can be seen by the FAA.

I think this is a good point and should be added to the self-policing mindset of the community.

People are ostracized by the BASE community for publicly posting video of uh.... exits with legal ramifications..., or naming such sites online. Though "burning" an object can happen to even the most careful jumper, those who have been determined to be reckless or even intentional burners are at least scolded, often shunned, and in more extreme cases.... well retribution is quite nasty.

So if you're doing things that could bring the FAA hammer down, at least don't publicly post video (Vimeo and YouTube allow private video posting).

If the community feels these public videos endanger the rest of us (via FAA response), then put some substance behind your bluster. There are non-regulatory ways to "punish" and "deter" those who taunt the FAA.

Same with the bad wingsuit instructors out there. If they've done bad and you're pissed about it, start the "wall of bad instructors" thread and put some effort into exposing them to the judgment of the community.

Brian Drake

[diablopilot 2]

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Specifically, I was told that the moment there is a tandem/wingsuit incident that involves any injury to the student, skydiving across the US will be *immediately* shut down, all tandem rigs grounded by the FAA, just like they ground aircraft that have an "unknown" or known problem that needs repair. This grounding would last for the duration of any investigation. Said grounding might be a day, month, or up to a year.
Empty threat or serious concern? I dunno.

I dunno either but it would seem disproportionate, especially in the light of two people falling out of tandem harnesses yet similar action was not taken.

What do you think is getting attention on tandem skydiving in the first place. This isn't about wingsuits...

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.