keithbar 1 #1 July 18, 2009 doing some two ways the other weekend. opened up with 1 and a half twists. I'm flying backwards looking up at the tail. muscle memory took over i grabbed the base of the risers gave a big kick. got out of a half twist for a split second then the twists turned me back around facing the tail again. but at least that told me that my airspace was clear and i didn't have to chop to keep from crashing into someone else. the old trusty sabre was flying along just fine with me facing backwards. so I unzip the arm wings grab risers and try to kick out again. get out of the same half twist. and then get turned back around facing the tail for the 3rd time. shit! unzip the legs. cross my arms spread the risers and start riding the bicycle and ever so slowly the damn things untwist. took at least 30 seconds or more to get out of. everyone I've showed the footage to got a good chuckle out of it. if i wasn't so damn worthless on the computer I'd post it to u tube and put a link on here. got to love the old school sabre though. it handled it finei have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #2 July 18, 2009 If your canopy is flying straight and level, instead of doing risers/kicking, keep every thing zipped up. Close the leg wing and extend the arm wing on the side you want to spin. The force of the air from the canopy flying forward and hitting the extended arm wing will cause you to spin under the canopy. As soon as you start to spin, pull in the arm wing. In effect, you will barrel roll your way out of line twists. Works like a charm. I was surprised how fast I unspun from 5 line twists. Just be ready to change plans if your canopy gets angry for some reason and stops behaving.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #3 July 18, 2009 Quotei grabbed the base of the risers Why not grab the riser normaly? That should be possible on all TonySuits with the sleeve system?JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keithbar 1 #4 July 18, 2009 i bought the suit used. it's one of the older style raptors with the thumb loops. I can get about 1 third of the way up the riser with everything still zipped and closed. not enough to get to the toggles. but enough to make a bit of a riser turn if i need to. haven't had to make a quick turn to avoid anyone and hope i don't. but it's just something I've found i can do.i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jasdcarter 0 #5 July 19, 2009 Even with the new sleve system it's still faster and quite easier to use your arm wing to get out of line twists. The sleve system is great for peace of mind! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keithbar 1 #6 July 19, 2009 QuoteIf your canopy is flying straight and level, instead of doing risers/kicking, keep every thing zipped up. Close the leg wing and extend the arm wing on the side you want to spin. thanks thats a good tip. I'll try that next time.i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timve 0 #7 July 19, 2009 once U get spun up, one side of the risers lower than the other, try to lower your hips at the side where you want the risers to go down, this enables the canopy to level out in stead of spinning, at this point using the wing to barrelrol out of the rest can be used. than again, if it sucks, get rid of it ! use the reserve it's there for some reason. I jump a stilleto 150 loaded at 1.6 for WS. been there done that ...the beauty in attachment was sort of "handled" that way. oxygen wingsuitteam check out our newest movie Trainingweek Seville Spain 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwtzc1RDzDQ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #8 July 19, 2009 Quote once U get spun up, one side of the risers lower than the other, try to lower your hips at the side where you want the risers to go down, this enables the canopy to level out in stead of spinning, at this point using the wing to barrelrol out of the rest can be used. than again, if it sucks, get rid of it ! use the reserve it's there for some reason. I jump a stilleto 150 loaded at 1.6 for WS. been there done that ...the beauty in attachment was sort of "handled" that way. After my second spinner/cutaway with my Stiletto in a WS, I decided to get a Spectre 135 for wingsuiting. No problems since.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BlindBrick 0 #9 July 24, 2009 Thanks for the tip man! Wish I had known that about three chops ago. . -Blind "If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matto765 0 #10 July 24, 2009 There is also another method that I have found to be almost 100% effective to getting out of line twist. Jonathan Tagle tought me it. Its kind of a 2 step method. (#1) When you get into line twist, instead of grabbing your risers and spreading them, push them together. This brings the twist down towards the risers which makes it easier to get out of them. (#2) While squeezing the risers together, twist them in the same direction as the linetwist. This sounds counterproductive, but it will spin you out of the twist. I'm not really sure why it happens that way, but my guess would be that it involves Newton's 3rd Law of Motion (for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction). By trying to twist the risers into the line twist (the action), your body will spin in the opposite direction (the equal and opposite reaction). This method works like a charm and has saved my ass many times from what would have been an immediate chop if I used any other way to remedy linetwist. I have a video of me using this technique that I will upload to youtube later if anyone wants to see it in action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matto765 0 #11 July 24, 2009 Here the link to the video I mentioned in my previous post. There are two points in the video where I have line twist on opening and use the technique that I mentioned (one at 1:47, and the other at 3:03). I didn't have to kick at all during either of those two openings to get out of the twists. Squeezing the risers together and twisting them did it all for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg4Niwm3AYI Edit: Forgot to make it a clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fasted3 0 #12 July 24, 2009 Very useful video. It works faster than I pictured it from the description, and it's also faster than the way I do it. Thanks!But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stoney3434 0 #13 July 25, 2009 You know ,..each and all these techniques are really interesting and I have tried a couple since my two chops,.... This is one of (if not the most) common deployment initial problem for new and experienced wing suit flyers. It isn't "always" easily predictable by body position. I just had an idea: ( it happens once or twice a year) How about Flock U in the USA (and someone else overseas) putting together a hanging harness trainer device like what is used with Safety Day re-current training harnesses for malfunctions and cutaways....BUT with enough risor and line length that we can induce twists for the wearer...(easy simple ones and ones with sliders twisted into really wickedly tight bunches!) ... We can then try out all these different techniques ( maybe with a hangar fan blowing to simulate the expected wind flow from the twist) It could be both shipped around and brought around to our major flock events and used for early training as well as by experienced flockers to reduce the "oh shit" effect and time loss,..increase awareness of various twists and through trial and error repititon, develop mind and muscle memories that could save some of us some valuable seconds when the evil twists actually do come .( as they seem to occassionally do) Maybe it will save some chops, reserve rides, out landing injury risks, repacks or even a life? I'll donate a couple hundred bucks to help develop such a device.... and I will definitely "use it" to practice the ideas I have read on this thread. With the use of a raised table or the ground to just lie on,...we could even simulate a line snagged on a helmet, camera or foot.... I'd be curious to try some coordinated reaches ,moves and simulated line line cuts on snags like that,... that I have only visualized in my head so far....( and learn what works from some others who have had such snags) What'cha think? StoneyLife is what happens while we are making other plans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnDeere 0 #14 August 25, 2009 Holy shit! I read this when you posted it and figured i would give it a shot since your video looked very good for getting out of line twist. This weekend i had a couple of line twist and did this move and was out of the twist in no time! Thanks for the info! Im going to start a thread in general so more people can see it. Since some may not come in here often. Thanks again. Its alot quiker than anything i have ever done to get out of line twist.Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robblack31 0 #15 August 25, 2009 Thanks for posting this video. I am almost looking forward to some line twist so that I can try it out. It looked like only 1 or 2 twists in the vid, does it work equally well for the nasty spin ups? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matto765 0 #16 August 25, 2009 Yeah, it works well for many twists. I once had 5 or 6 twists and it worked fine on them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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timve 0 #7 July 19, 2009 once U get spun up, one side of the risers lower than the other, try to lower your hips at the side where you want the risers to go down, this enables the canopy to level out in stead of spinning, at this point using the wing to barrelrol out of the rest can be used. than again, if it sucks, get rid of it ! use the reserve it's there for some reason. I jump a stilleto 150 loaded at 1.6 for WS. been there done that ...the beauty in attachment was sort of "handled" that way. oxygen wingsuitteam check out our newest movie Trainingweek Seville Spain 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwtzc1RDzDQ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #8 July 19, 2009 Quote once U get spun up, one side of the risers lower than the other, try to lower your hips at the side where you want the risers to go down, this enables the canopy to level out in stead of spinning, at this point using the wing to barrelrol out of the rest can be used. than again, if it sucks, get rid of it ! use the reserve it's there for some reason. I jump a stilleto 150 loaded at 1.6 for WS. been there done that ...the beauty in attachment was sort of "handled" that way. After my second spinner/cutaway with my Stiletto in a WS, I decided to get a Spectre 135 for wingsuiting. No problems since.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #9 July 24, 2009 Thanks for the tip man! Wish I had known that about three chops ago. . -Blind "If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matto765 0 #10 July 24, 2009 There is also another method that I have found to be almost 100% effective to getting out of line twist. Jonathan Tagle tought me it. Its kind of a 2 step method. (#1) When you get into line twist, instead of grabbing your risers and spreading them, push them together. This brings the twist down towards the risers which makes it easier to get out of them. (#2) While squeezing the risers together, twist them in the same direction as the linetwist. This sounds counterproductive, but it will spin you out of the twist. I'm not really sure why it happens that way, but my guess would be that it involves Newton's 3rd Law of Motion (for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction). By trying to twist the risers into the line twist (the action), your body will spin in the opposite direction (the equal and opposite reaction). This method works like a charm and has saved my ass many times from what would have been an immediate chop if I used any other way to remedy linetwist. I have a video of me using this technique that I will upload to youtube later if anyone wants to see it in action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matto765 0 #11 July 24, 2009 Here the link to the video I mentioned in my previous post. There are two points in the video where I have line twist on opening and use the technique that I mentioned (one at 1:47, and the other at 3:03). I didn't have to kick at all during either of those two openings to get out of the twists. Squeezing the risers together and twisting them did it all for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg4Niwm3AYI Edit: Forgot to make it a clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #12 July 24, 2009 Very useful video. It works faster than I pictured it from the description, and it's also faster than the way I do it. Thanks!But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoney3434 0 #13 July 25, 2009 You know ,..each and all these techniques are really interesting and I have tried a couple since my two chops,.... This is one of (if not the most) common deployment initial problem for new and experienced wing suit flyers. It isn't "always" easily predictable by body position. I just had an idea: ( it happens once or twice a year) How about Flock U in the USA (and someone else overseas) putting together a hanging harness trainer device like what is used with Safety Day re-current training harnesses for malfunctions and cutaways....BUT with enough risor and line length that we can induce twists for the wearer...(easy simple ones and ones with sliders twisted into really wickedly tight bunches!) ... We can then try out all these different techniques ( maybe with a hangar fan blowing to simulate the expected wind flow from the twist) It could be both shipped around and brought around to our major flock events and used for early training as well as by experienced flockers to reduce the "oh shit" effect and time loss,..increase awareness of various twists and through trial and error repititon, develop mind and muscle memories that could save some of us some valuable seconds when the evil twists actually do come .( as they seem to occassionally do) Maybe it will save some chops, reserve rides, out landing injury risks, repacks or even a life? I'll donate a couple hundred bucks to help develop such a device.... and I will definitely "use it" to practice the ideas I have read on this thread. With the use of a raised table or the ground to just lie on,...we could even simulate a line snagged on a helmet, camera or foot.... I'd be curious to try some coordinated reaches ,moves and simulated line line cuts on snags like that,... that I have only visualized in my head so far....( and learn what works from some others who have had such snags) What'cha think? StoneyLife is what happens while we are making other plans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #14 August 25, 2009 Holy shit! I read this when you posted it and figured i would give it a shot since your video looked very good for getting out of line twist. This weekend i had a couple of line twist and did this move and was out of the twist in no time! Thanks for the info! Im going to start a thread in general so more people can see it. Since some may not come in here often. Thanks again. Its alot quiker than anything i have ever done to get out of line twist.Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robblack31 0 #15 August 25, 2009 Thanks for posting this video. I am almost looking forward to some line twist so that I can try it out. It looked like only 1 or 2 twists in the vid, does it work equally well for the nasty spin ups? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matto765 0 #16 August 25, 2009 Yeah, it works well for many twists. I once had 5 or 6 twists and it worked fine on them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
