mccordia 74 #26 March 31, 2010 There's also several windows shell options for mac available. Not meaning more work on this side for now. We dont have funds, all time spent on this is 'for the love of the game' so macs arent the first priority. But once we get to a more complete version, Tom said mac versions are also a definate possibility..JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #27 March 31, 2010 In the display menu, toggle between the various viewing options/methods. When using the line evaluation method, click a flyer to see his/her relative 'flight zones' indicating where other flyers should be..JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #28 March 31, 2010 QuoteWe dont have funds, all time spent on this is 'for the love of the game' so macs arent the first priority. I see. We are equal, but some of us are more equal. Sure, if you have only one hammer in your toolbox everything start to look like nails.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,063 #29 March 31, 2010 QuoteQuoteWe dont have funds, all time spent on this is 'for the love of the game' so macs arent the first priority. I see. We are equal, but some of us are more equal. Shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,063 #30 March 31, 2010 Quote You can choose 90 or 45 degree angles in the setting in the debrief/briefing mode. For the early version of Kallends feature, any angle/position/diveplsn works.. Very nice. I could see how the "Kallend" method is used for a formation based on a diamond geometry, but not for any other design. It wasn't covered in the video. Maybe I'm missing something, or is the possibility of an arbitrary design not implemented yet?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperGirl 0 #31 March 31, 2010 Quote Quote You can choose 90 or 45 degree angles in the setting in the debrief/briefing mode. For the early version of Kallends feature, any angle/position/diveplsn works.. Very nice. I could see how the "Kallend" method is used for a formation based on a diamond geometry, but not for any other design. It wasn't covered in the video. Maybe I'm missing something, or is the possibility of an arbitrary design not implemented yet? correct. not implemented yet. this is only the first iteration that includes stuff regarding your method. Yes, we need to allow for arbitrary positioning of those circles, otherwise it beats the whole purpose. Patience... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperGirl 0 #32 March 31, 2010 Quotespent on this is 'for the love of the game' so macs arent the first priority. But once we get to a more complete version, Tom said mac versions are also a definate possibility.. Actually the latest discussion I recall was about working towards a web-based app that runs in whatever browser you have, rather than pc vs mac vs whatever. I am very much in favor of that. Yes, eventually we will want a platform-independent thing. Trust me, guys, as a mac user myself that was one of the first things I bitched about. However, we all need to be patient here... remember there is a programmer spending lots of time and getting nothing in return, so the least we can do right now is be nice rather than throw nasty remarks about "some being more equal than others". Improvements will come. This is still beta, for fuck's sake. There is still work to do. And some of it needs to be prioritized, with some things addressed sooner than other things... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,063 #33 March 31, 2010 Quote Quote Quote You can choose 90 or 45 degree angles in the setting in the debrief/briefing mode. For the early version of Kallends feature, any angle/position/diveplsn works.. Very nice. I could see how the "Kallend" method is used for a formation based on a diamond geometry, but not for any other design. It wasn't covered in the video. Maybe I'm missing something, or is the possibility of an arbitrary design not implemented yet? correct. not implemented yet. this is only the first iteration that includes stuff regarding your method. Yes, we need to allow for arbitrary positioning of those circles, otherwise it beats the whole purpose. Patience... There's also a tool that allows some rotation and possibly scaling of the dot spacing (but not of the underlying picture), but I couldn't quite get the hang of exactly what it does or how it is supposed to work. YES, I am patient. However, it probably wouldn't take long to explain all the currently available features. I'd even write it myself if I had an outline of the details.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
repcool 2 #34 March 31, 2010 Quote Actually the latest discussion I recall was about working towards a web-based app that runs in whatever browser you have, rather than pc vs mac vs whatever.. I like that idea the most. I can see why it needs to be proved out on a PC first. I do have some options for using Windows on my Mac but I try and keep that to business needs and not the "fun" stuff. It also costs a virtual solution and windows license so it isn't an option for everyone. My question on the QA will become more important when this goes from test software to a robust and used system. By QA I didn't mean Question and Answer but Quality Assurance. This might come out later but it will be a big issue, version control, regression testing, ensuring that all the accepted standards in a tool like this always stay in place and do not deteriorate as the tool grows in others areas. It is a big issue in the software industry and something like this would need to be robust and certified I think. It might not be top of anybody's mind yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #35 March 31, 2010 Quote Quote Quote You can choose 90 or 45 degree angles in the setting in the debrief/briefing mode. For the early version of Kallends feature, any angle/position/diveplsn works.. Very nice. I could see how the "Kallend" method is used for a formation based on a diamond geometry, but not for any other design. It wasn't covered in the video. Maybe I'm missing something, or is the possibility of an arbitrary design not implemented yet? correct. not implemented yet. this is only the first iteration that includes stuff regarding your method. Yes, we need to allow for arbitrary positioning of those circles, otherwise it beats the whole purpose. Patience... Thanks, that answered one of the questions I had."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tvandijck 0 #36 March 31, 2010 Quotethe "green circle" method shows that it passes. However, the "connect the dots" method shows that it fails. the software doesn't really make that judgement. pass of fail... it just shows red/green dots, or black/red lines. In this case playing with the tolerances will probably help, but its a perfect example of why we need to test and adjust the software to make it better, because you are completely right, this is an awesome formation, and there is no reason at all for the lines method to show anything red.. More test data like this is awesome, and I can't wait to get those all together in a database.. I should probably add an 'upload' link to the website orsomething to collect them. Also, if you want to report bugs and feature requests etc... www.tomvandijck.com/mantis is the bugtracker website, you have to sign up for it though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #37 March 31, 2010 Quote By QA I didn't mean Question and Answer but Quality Assurance. This might come out later but it will be a big issue, version control, regression testing, ensuring that all the accepted standards in a tool like this always stay in place and do not deteriorate as the tool grows in others areas. It is a big issue in the software industry and something like this would need to be robust and certified I think. It might not be top of anybody's mind yet. There are several of us involved that are intimately familiar with SQA processes, have our own software companies, and have actually had a conversation (several) about how to go about it. Andreea said it best..."This is BETA-ware for fuck's sake." Play for a while. I'd propose we worry about how the software works, where it's awesome, where it's weak, what more the community would like it to be different...before we worry about "certification" (which doesn't exist for the box method either). Since you already have Bootcamp installed, this should be a no-brainer for you to play with. I'm running mine on Bootcamp, have been since August. The virtual solution is free. Apple provided it for you. Parallels not necessary. There are other free tools too, if you need to share files across the OS. Play for a while. Have fun with it. It's free, it's wingie-weinie compatible, and it hopefully will open up a dialog about what's needed and what isn't. ps...it's not a judging software. It's a prebrief and debrief system, just like the splash says. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tvandijck 0 #38 March 31, 2010 Yes, but honestly I was thinking of rewritting the software in JavaScript/HTML5, and just get it on the intertubes. That way it works in your browser (except microsofts internet exploder) and I don't have to care about what machine/platform it runs on. That however is more of a longer term goal.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tvandijck 0 #39 March 31, 2010 QuoteAs to community software/Q&A and judging methods. This is all a free, own initiative. I'd like to take the opportunity to note that there is a donate button on the bottom of the website. It explicitly says that all donation will go to a good cause of our choosing, and suggestions are obviously welcome. Just PM me for that. Anything skydiving related would be preferable, but I'm open to anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,063 #40 March 31, 2010 QuoteQuotethe "green circle" method shows that it passes. However, the "connect the dots" method shows that it fails. the software doesn't really make that judgement. pass of fail... it just shows red/green dots, or black/red lines. In this case playing with the tolerances will probably help, but its a perfect example of why we need to test and adjust the software to make it better, because you are completely right, this is an awesome formation, and there is no reason at all for the lines method to show anything red.. More test data like this is awesome, and I can't wait to get those all together in a database.. I should probably add an 'upload' link to the website orsomething to collect them. Also, if you want to report bugs and feature requests etc... www.tomvandijck.com/mantis is the bugtracker website, you have to sign up for it though. Tom, nice job! I tried to register on your bugtracker site and it said it sent a confirmation email, but the email didn't arrive (yet). I'd be happy to help in any way I can getting the "Kallend" method working fully and debugged.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #41 March 31, 2010 Would be awesome to get you in on the testing-bug tracking-fixing-updating.. This needs to be a community initiative. I do propose everyone helping out tom with some nice video-photo-formation-coaching when he´s around on the DZ...he is doing a killer job.. The only issue is finding people who can fly as well as he does.. Im sadly out of the office the next few days, but monday Ill post his FFC on the intertubes...its awesome JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,063 #42 March 31, 2010 Here are a couple of other formations to play around with - one is quite pretty, the other is "hmmmm".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tvandijck 0 #43 March 31, 2010 Quote The only issue is finding people who can fly as well as he does.. Im sadly out of the office the next few days, but monday Ill post his FFC on the intertubes...its awesome Dude, you're creating some expectation here... now I can only disappoint.... thanks for the confidence though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buried 0 #44 March 31, 2010 Quote one is quite pretty, the other is "hmmmm". the other is a record to clarify, Tom added the "kalland" method based on an interpretation of two images from my BOD presentation. I'll get that posted here soon. There should be two sets of dots in a simplified version of the method. one set should be uniform size and it requires a common placement as to where the flier should be (or it's the center of the outer circle). The outer circle is a scaled up circle around that dot/center point to define the tolerance allowed. The larger the outer circle the larger the tolerance. simon - yes, they and otheres are aware of this. I've talked with the guys about your worry to some extent. Since i'm pretty sure Taya (taz) is going to be following this thread, maybe she can post the pictures of the pepperell record and the one that was a record and not submitted for us all to play/compare against all methods. Things to think about - Does the image resolution product different results? It has already been identified that the current USPA judging method does. software include multiple methods, any work better than others (including the current downloadable grid) in general, does single point vs multi point judging method works best for formations? Don't worry about the application (read how to apply) as of now. method will help define delivery. there are always multiple ways to apply a method. Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #45 March 31, 2010 The more images we have from a variety of sources/cameras, the more comparisons we can make regarding vertical separation (camera to formation), lens distortions, resolution either from low rez camera/frame grab or zooming in/cropping to enlarge the formation fill in the frame), angular interpretation (camera being back, front, side of formation), We can have a wingsuit formation library box here on DZ.com, but we're limited to 200k images. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,063 #46 March 31, 2010 Here's the Summerfest 25-way with the smallest tolerances shown that allowed all black lines. Also the "Kallend" circles in green are nice and small.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,063 #47 March 31, 2010 Quote Quote one is quite pretty, the other is "hmmmm". the other is a record t. No need to at me - I wasn't even there! Here is the analysis.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperGirl 0 #48 March 31, 2010 QuoteI do propose everyone helping out tom with some nice video-photo-formation-coaching when he´s around on the DZ...he is doing a killer job.. next time Tom jumps with us I am offering my skills in getting extra altltude on every load we're on :) shoulda done more of that at FnD anyway :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,063 #49 April 1, 2010 Quote Quote I do propose everyone helping out tom with some nice video-photo-formation-coaching when he´s around on the DZ...he is doing a killer job.. next time Tom jumps with us I am offering my skills in getting extra altltude on every load we're on :) shoulda done more of that at FnD anyway :) I never heard them called "skills" before.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #50 April 1, 2010 Quote Quote shoulda done more of that at FnD anyway :) I never heard them called "skills" before. Not? Skills, reasons, arguments, drinks fetcher... oooops, thread is drifting For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
