Reserve sizing ?

[Phillbo 11]

I know it all depends on the container but why do some have reserves that are larger than their main and some smaller? Is this a product of downsizing ?

Is a loading of 1.3 way too high for a reserve ? Or do they have different characteristics that make this kind of loading exceptable ?

[mjosparky 4]

Some mains are so small that it is smarter to have a larger reserve and some mains are so large, like mine, that you can safely use a smaller reserve.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skybytch 273]

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Is a loading of 1.3 way too high for a reserve ?

At 14 jumps... yes, 1.3 is way too high of a wingloading for your reserve.

Size your reserve for what you know you can land in a worst case scenario, not for what you think you can land 95% of the time.

[andy2 0]

or what you think you could land 50 jumps from now, too! Your next jump might be a malfunction.

---------------------------------------------
let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[pilotdave 0]

My current reserve is a 120 loaded at about 1.1. I bought that when I had about 40 jumps. 100 jumps later I'm buying a new rig, this time with a 143 reserve loaded at more like .9. I'm pretty sure I could land my 120 with no problems most of the time, but I always felt like that was pushing it a little. An off landing on a no wind day would just suck under that 120 if I couldn't find a nice big field.

Dave

[cruzlite 0]

I think f-111 square reserves max out at 1:1.
I would not feel comfortable pushing this number more than 10 lbs.
Hybrid & zp reserves could be pushed to 1.3, but not by me & I have 310 jumps.
Reserve choice is a critical one; best to error on the side of caution.
Good luck,
D

[PhreeZone 20]

There are no all ZP reserves. There are only a few Hybrid reserves also. Probally 95% of the square reserves in use are F111.

When F111 is fresh from the factory it is very very low porsity, as it gets worn from packing or useage the poresity increases. The more porses the canopy the less flare power it has and the lighter it should be loaded for soft landings.

Reserves depend on more then just materal for proper sizing. Designs that are 20 years old can not be loaded like barnd new designs can be.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I think f-111 square reserves max out at 1:1

I'm not advocating loading a reserve very high, but don't mix up an old tired F-111 canopy with thousands of jumps on it with a reserve with less than a handful of jumps (maybe zero jumps).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[sammer 0]

I think that PD reserves are F-111 and most, if not all, have a placarded MSW of 254 lbs. I know for sure my 176 does (it's loaded at ~1.4). The canopies are definately capable of it... but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

[bsoder 0]

Looking at PD's site - max for the 106/113 is 220, 126-253 is 254, the 281 has a max of 300.

I'm looking at going with a Silhouette 260 as my main and a 281 Reserve.

[nicknitro71 0]

I would not like to have a 105 reserve on my back!

Memento Audere Semper

903

[cruzlite 0]

No all zp reserves? I stand corrected, thank you.
Re: CanuckInUSA's post;
PD shows max wing loads of 1:1 for their f-111 7 cells, yet max loads for reserves at 254 lbs. from R126 to R253. Are their reserves hybrids, or what's uup ?
Is it posible I have managed to get both feet in mouth with single post?

[Hooknswoop 19]

There are 2 maximum weights, recommended maximum and TSO'd or certified maximum.

PD's reserves are F-111 (not really, but that is the common name in use)

Derek

[sammer 0]

PD reserves are F-111. Like PhreeZone said, F-111 gets more porous when jumped/packed. A reserve that has not been jumped or packed very often can be counted on to perform more like ZP than a main which may get hundreds of jumps and packjobs.

[AndyMan 7]

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Are their reserves hybrids, or what's uup ?

The max numbers for the f-111 7 cell mains are recomendations.

The max numbers on their reserves are the limit they're tested to. Big difference.

Secondly, you can load a f111 reserve higher then a f-111 main, because they don't go through the wear and tear of having hundreds of jumps done on them.

That said, novice jumpers should choose a very conservative wingloading on their reserves. Remember that when you'll be using your reserve, you'll probably be low, you'll probably be landing off, and you'll probably be landing cross-wind or down-wind.

Get a big reserve.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[mjosparky 4]

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There are 2 maximum weights, recommended maximum and TSO'd or certified maximum.

Ref: Hooknswoop's post.
The maximum weight is what they feel, after testing, that the canopy will safely take.
The maximum recommended weight is what they feel you body will take on landing.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[darkwing 5]

Remember that reserves don't have the aerodynamics that mains do, so bigger reserve is often needed for some extra cushion on landing. Also, many people have few or none jumps on their reserve, so they need something fairly forgiving. Finally, remember that your reserve should be survivable if you land unconscious. Want to try that on a main loaded at 2.2?

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[Kolla 0]

Actually, PD has tested their reserves above and beyond the TSO requirements.

Ian Bellis explained to me that the "maximum wingloading" represents a point where the behavior of the canopy may start to deviate from what it is designed to do.
It's not the structural limit per se.
I know thats splitting hairs, but thought it might be of interest.

Blue ones!
Kolla

Blue Skies Magazine

[rmsmith 1]

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I'm looking at going with a Silhouette 260 as my main and a 281 Reserve.

Defensive lineman?

[bsoder 0]

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I'm looking at going with a Silhouette 260 as my main and a 281 Reserve.

Defensive lineman?

Nah, just big. :) I weigh about 265. I've been talking with my DZO, he has a new Silhouette 230 he thinks would be perfect for me, so I think I will work my way down to that. Gonna be a while longer tho, I have 15 jumps now, all on a Nav 260.

[arlo 0]

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[Nah, just big. :) I weigh about 265. I've been talking with my DZO, he has a new Silhouette 230 he thinks would be perfect for me, so I think I will work my way down to that. Gonna be a while longer tho, I have 15 jumps now, all on a Nav 260.

ummmmmm, did your dzo think that canopy would be "great" for you now? Glad to hear that you want to wait on hitting that 230, because you'll be loading that canopy at 1.26 to 1 and that IMO is just a tad bit steep for you...but sounds like you already know that. shame on your dzo for trying to sell you his stuff already when it is OBVIOUSLY too small. good on you for realizing it.

even with 15 jumps, you're at 1.1 to 1 on the nav 260...

take care,
arlo

edited to add: i'm sorry, but it bothers me when people that students look up to/listen to have "the perfect set up" for you right off student status. it almost makes me think people are trying to sell their own stuff for personal gain...instead of trying to keep the newer jumpers as safe as they can. i'm sure i MUST be mistaken, though.

[bsoder 0]

No, he's not suggesting that I'm ready for it now. I'm not. It's more just planning ahead - the DZ has a Nav 240 as well, I figure I will work down to that one first, mabye in another 20-30 jumps or so, then mabye to the 230 as my 100th jump or some such. I don't want to get hurt, obviously.

I don't think it's a situation where he's trying to sell me something just to get rid of it - I've watched him work with other students not just myself, and I've never seen him push anything that was too much. On the other hand, I HAVE seen him disallow things that he considers too dangerous for someone's skill level, I trust him not to get me hurt by putting me on equipment that would be unsafe for me to jump.

[arlo 0]

if you look at PDs canopy sizing chart for the navigator, you'll see that for a 240, the EXPERT wingloading has a weight of 288 lbs. your exit weight is 290-ish. the NOVICE weight is 192. that's 100 lbs less than yours would be under that canopy and that 192 is in the novice range. 290 is in the expert range. that's my concern. there really is no need to start downsizing in the next 20-30 jumps.

am i off topic? oh wait, yes, 1.3 to 1 is too high a wingloading for a reserve for your experience level. just remember, size DOES matter. :)

blues,
arlo

[Kolla 0]

I'll have to side with Arlo on this one - look at the sizing charts for the Silhouette on PD's website (http://www.performancedesigns.com/silhouette.htm - scroll to the bottom), and you'll notice that your weight would put you in the "Expert" category for that canopy.
I noticed that the Silhouette 260 is not listed on our website (and will get that taken care off), but that size might fit you better.

But - as with any canopy - fly before you buy - most manufacturers have demos available of their canopies and knowledgeable staff that can give you information about the canopies you are considering.

Blue ones!
Kolla Kolbeinsdottir,
Performance Designs, Inc.

Blue Skies Magazine

[bsoder 0]

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there really is no need to start downsizing in the next 20-30 jumps.

Mabye I'll try it for my 100th jump. ;) I don't want to be unsafe.