TheCaptain 2 #1 April 10, 2010 In another thread I was being a smart a$$ about what would be a good beginners suit, so I thought I would ask the general populous of experienced wingsuit pilots. What would you recommend for a person that has 200 Jumps and wants to buy a wingsuit and take instruction from a wingsuit instructor? mulitple answers are accepted I took out the high end suits like the Vampire series,the Stealth/ Stealth 2 the S-bird, Super mach one, X-bird, and the XS. I personally think that these would be reserved for wingsuit pilots with around 100 or so wingsuit jumps, but please correct me if I am wrong.Kirk He's dead Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #2 April 10, 2010 I'd try to rent or borrow a suit like classic, gti, intro, prodigy etc first, do say 10 jumps on it, when and if comfy then proceed to buy a suit like a phantom or firebird. If however said person is a BASE jumper and want to BASE the suit later I'd buy a prodigy stright out. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teigen 0 #3 April 10, 2010 Well.. I would say it differs from person to person! I for one are getting the Phantom 2z. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheCaptain 2 #4 April 10, 2010 I usually offer the same advise about the first 10 jumps. I may not be the most current wingsuit pilot as I have about 250 wingsuit jumps spread over 7 years, but it is my understanding that what make a good beginners suit is having easy access to the BOC without having to grab around the wing.Kirk He's dead Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
repcool 2 #5 April 10, 2010 QuoteWell.. I would say it differs from person to person! I for one are getting the Phantom 2z. Does the new P2Z allow you to grab the toggles without unzipping or is it still just the 3 rings like the P1 and P2? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Titanium_Gecko 0 #6 April 10, 2010 I've seen newbies get on instantly with the Phantom2 and Firebird, although skydiving ability/experience had something to do with that as well. Renting or borrowing from instructors or schools is definitely the way forward to start plus taking the time to practice pull on the ground and in the air. Having started on the S-Fly Access for 40 odd jumps due to being a slow learner, uncurrent and trying to get out of bad habits I would suggest newbies go for the S-Fly Indy instead! I held off jumping the Indy to get cleared for the Expert instead and haven't looked back. Geckowww.gathhelmets.co.uk www.flyyourbody.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #7 April 10, 2010 I started with a Tony Intro and did over 100 jumps with it before moving up to a Raptor. By that time, I could backfly and do acrobatics with confidence. I could have upsized sooner for sure, but I didn't get bored with it, and feel that the time was well spent. I'm not saying this is the only way to go, by any means, but it worked for me. I'm flying a SM1 now.But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
repcool 2 #8 April 11, 2010 I voted for the Intro but I think the Prodigy needs to be in the list as well. I did my first few jumps on a Prodigy and I think it set me up for success when I moved up to a P2. Simon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #9 April 11, 2010 Missing in the List: Two dedicated first flight suits: S-Fly ACCESS and PhoenixFly Prodigy/Prodigy2. I would also split the Phantom and the Phantom2. While the first version of the Phantom could be used for first flights in my eyes, I would not use a Phantom2 on the first jump. The Acro is a wonderfull suit for the first jumps after 2 to 5 jumps in one of the three dedicated beginner suits but I would not use it on the first jump. BTW: Just had a look at the bird-man website and it seems like they are no longer producing a suit for first flights. Blade2 and the Firebird-R only. For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #10 April 11, 2010 I'd like to know who voted for a Birdman Skyflier 1. Most unstable suit I ever flew.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #11 April 11, 2010 I don't care who, but I'd like to know why. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #12 April 11, 2010 That too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #13 April 11, 2010 QuoteBTW: Just had a look at the bird-man website and it seems like they are no longer producing a suit for first flights. Blade2 and the Firebird-R only Click on the "store" flight gear button to see the entire line of suits."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #14 April 11, 2010 Quote Quote BTW: Just had a look at the bird-man website and it seems like they are no longer producing a suit for first flights. Blade2 and the Firebird-R only Click on the "store" flight gear button to see the entire line of suits. Well, you can see the names, but the links to details all appear to be broken. Makes sense though - has anyone, anywhere, actually bought or even seen a Tengu or S8?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redfox 0 #15 April 11, 2010 My short comment: Ask yourself: what should a Beginner learn? The answer would be: fly safely a Wingsuit and have fun! I am teaching mostly with Prodigy's, but I am heavily influenced from Loic and Zun. What they teach is that the human hand has a lot of nerves, so humans are very much to "hold" something. So a good beginner suit will be a suit without grippers, so that the flyer can concentrate oh his body position mainly. After he learns to fly his body (you guess the name of the company this wording is coming from... ) let him choose the suit he likes most! So my advice: choose a suit without grippers for beginner... I guess every one of the main manufacturers has such a suit! Cordially, Herwig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littlestranger 0 #16 April 11, 2010 I would also split the Phantom and the Phantom2. While the first version of the Phantom could be used for first flights in my eyes, I would not use a Phantom2 on the first jump. Quote what's the difference between the two that is so major that you wouldn't recommend the phantom 2? So a good beginner suit will be a suit without grippers, so that the flyer can concentrate oh his body position mainly. *** is there any reason you couldn't just let go of the grippers? thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hjumper33 0 #17 April 12, 2010 QuoteDoes the new P2Z allow you to grab the toggles without unzipping or is it still just the 3 rings like the P1 and P2? How often do people really grab the toggles without unzipping? The situations I can see this being useful in are when flying with a large group and opening close to someone and needing to avoid them, and base jumping object avoidance, neither of which someone first flying a wingsuit should be doing. Also, I agree with the S1 not being the best first suit. That narrow leg wing is pretty twitchy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #18 April 12, 2010 Quote Quote Quote BTW: Just had a look at the bird-man website and it seems like they are no longer producing a suit for first flights. Blade2 and the Firebird-R only Click on the "store" flight gear button to see the entire line of suits. Well, you can see the names, but the links to details all appear to be broken. Makes sense though - has anyone, anywhere, actually bought or even seen a Tengu or S8? Here is a link, since you are having problems clicking the suit links for some reason. List of wingsuits HERE. I've been flying a Tengu since it came out. Several people have them as well as the S8. Both were at the F&D 5 and being flown."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
repcool 2 #19 April 12, 2010 QuoteQuoteDoes the new P2Z allow you to grab the toggles without unzipping or is it still just the 3 rings like the P1 and P2? How often do people really grab the toggles without unzipping? If it is your first or second wingsuit jump and you need to get on them then it becomes an issue. When there are suits around that allow you to use toggles without unzipping then why introduce more change than needed? If your 201st skydive is a wingsuit jump and you have been used to grabbing yours risers up high on opening then you get a real nice surprise on your FFC and need a new technique to even grab your 3 rings.... We know 100 people will get away with 1000 first jumps without it being an issue...but then just ONE time... I have only needed to REALLY get on my toggles once when I had a break fire. That was on a Spectre, what IF that was a FFC and the canopy was not so wingsuit friendly? It is all just good food for thought... Simon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base851 0 #20 April 12, 2010 Quote Here is a link, since you are having problems clicking the suit links for some reason. List of wingsuits HERE. Without adding anything in the way of commentary, since that seems to always get me in trouble, I'll add the linky to Phoenix-Fly's wingsuit recommendations here.. For the record, I have a Phantom 2 on order and am well within their recommended jump margin. Thing can't get here soon enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeemax 0 #21 April 12, 2010 QuoteWhen there are suits around that allow you to use toggles without unzipping then why introduce more change than needed? Two reasons: 1) This system apparently has flaws. From what I understand, it doesn't work well if you have the wrong type of clothing on underneath the sleeves. 2) The majority of suits out there use a zip based release system. Why not teach students how to use them right from the start. Muscle memory is a good thing in high stress situations. QuoteIf your 201st skydive is a wingsuit jump and you have been used to grabbing yours risers up high on opening then you get a real nice surprise on your FFC and need a new technique to even grab your 3 rings.... It shouldn't be a surprise. Surely the ws coach would have gone over deployment techniques with the student until they were confident it wouldn't be a surprise? QuoteI have only needed to REALLY get on my toggles once when I had a break fire. That was on a Spectre, what IF that was a FFC and the canopy was not so wingsuit friendly? Cutaway then deploy the reserve. Again, surely something that would be covered in a decent FFC?Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperGirl 0 #22 April 12, 2010 Quote I have only needed to REALLY get on my toggles once when I had a break fire. That was on a Spectre, what IF that was a FFC and the canopy was not so wingsuit friendly? one thing I gotta point out here is why would the FFC student be on a not so wingsuit friendly canopy to begin with? that's a bad choice! have a break fire on a cross-braced swoopy machine on your FFC, and you might have to chop it before you even get to think about reaching those toggles... and regardless of how we each feel about different suits, they all let you reach the emergency handles juuuust fine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #23 April 12, 2010 QuoteWhile the first version of the Phantom could be used for first flights in my eyes, I would not use a Phantom2 on the first jump. Quotewhat's the difference between the two that is so major that you wouldn't recommend the phantom 2? The arm- and legwings are fairly bigger.For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #24 April 12, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote BTW: Just had a look at the bird-man website and it seems like they are no longer producing a suit for first flights. Blade2 and the Firebird-R only Click on the "store" flight gear button to see the entire line of suits. Well, you can see the names, but the links to details all appear to be broken. Makes sense though - has anyone, anywhere, actually bought or even seen a Tengu or S8? Here is a link, since you are having problems clicking the suit links for some reason. List of wingsuits HERE. Back to my question: BM does not do a first flight suit any more, do they? The Impact is a tracking suit and the Firebird would not be my first choice...For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #25 April 12, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote BTW: Just had a look at the bird-man website and it seems like they are no longer producing a suit for first flights. Blade2 and the Firebird-R only Click on the "store" flight gear button to see the entire line of suits. Well, you can see the names, but the links to details all appear to be broken. Makes sense though - has anyone, anywhere, actually bought or even seen a Tengu or S8? Here is a link, since you are having problems clicking the suit links for some reason. List of wingsuits HERE. Back to my question: BM does not do a first flight suit any more, do they? The Impact is a tracking suit and the Firebird would not be my first choice... Birdman does not offer the Classic II anymore as it is a FF type suit used mainly by instructors. Birdman is currently working on a new version of a FF suit but the Classic IIs are available to instructors. The Firebird can be used as a FF suit much like the Phantom or other intermediate suits in certain cases. It was not completely unheard of to do a FF in a GTI back in the day but if you have a suit that sets your student up for success, it makes sense to use the smallest wing possible until they grasp the dynamics of wingsuit flying."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
