Birdman no longer flying

[unclecharlie95 3]

nah, it didn't have the "S.U.I.T" embroidery, they're the same thing though

BASEstore.it

[mccordia 74]

Yea..I know...same model...just a different name...
And neither robi or jari ever had a real answer to what S.U.I.T. stood for...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[VectorBoy 0]

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Despite working for "the competition" I was still sad to hear the news.

Yeah its sad. Back in the day I bought 4 suits from BM and some spare parts, the shipping time and service was excellent! Jari would follow up with emails personally and I wrote him letters about the girls in the front office ( Kim #1 & later Kim#2) awesomeness. Jari was living the dream.

But the company as of the last five years was completely different. I hope Jari gets to live the next stage of his dreams.

[DSE 5]

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Back in the day I bought 4 suits from BM and some spare parts, the shipping time and service was excellent! Jari would follow up with emails personally and I wrote him letters about the girls in the front office ( Kim #1 & later Kim#2) awesomeness. Jari was living the dream.

But the company as of the last five years was completely different.

I wish I'd seen the Birdman company others mention.
Jari and Robi truly gave us all a gift.
I'd expect (based on the wordingin the BM posting) that Jari will rise from the ashes to create a new wingsuit company of some sort.

[lurch 0]

This is kind of sad... end of an era.
My first suit was a GTI. Excellent suit. Delivered quickly. I flew it for years.

By the time I wore it out the S-6 was out. Jari made me a dealer... I sold only one suit... to myself. Delivered 6 freakin' months late only after repeated emails to Jari. I ordered it around the beginning of the season. By the time I got it it was too late for all the boogies that year I'd hoped to fly it at. When it arrived the mylar in the shoulders crunched, broke and went to pieces the first time I flew it. Mylar wing liners soon followed. The bright beautiful decals began to peel right off almost at once. Easily the most incompetently designed consumer product I've ever owned.

Jari told me to send it back and they'd redo it but by then I was so pissed off and frustrated I declined and kept it. I figured if I sent it back I wouldn't have a suit till halfway through the next season given how long it took the first time around. Jari told me they'd solved the peeling decals problem but this was not true... I saw others made later than mine that also peeled immediately. Total disgrace.

I ripped the broken mylar out of the shoulders, ignored the shattered crap inside the wings and Chuck snuck up and peeled the rest of the decals off at the next Flock n Dock.

The underlying suit design was awesome, I flew the thing for years and loved it anyway despite its glaring flaws but that experience put me off buying Birdman's stuff again, and cost Jari any hope of capturing the northeast wingsuit market. Everyone around here knew I was expecting it to arrive any day now... any week now... any month now... and the crap I received when I finally got it. After that I couldn't have given the damn things away and I could not in good conscience try to sell crap like that to anyone. Thus ended my relationship with Birdman Inc.

Then I get an S-Bird. Tony's suits were a good deal cruder than Birdman's for most of the time I watched them grow and spread but by the time I got mine they were far more refined and the suit I received was flawless in every way... perfect.

Even though mine was won in a raffle and thus I could reasonably expect it to be at the bottom of the priority stack below all the paying customers he still delivered it within weeks of Justin sending in my measurements and color choice. Now THATS customer service. As a freebie one might expect it to be thrown together in haste, shabbier than the average suit. Instead I get perfection.

I've put a season on mine now and its still perfect. Not so much as a frayed stitch. Slightly rough zipper action on lower right leg but I think thats my fault for zipping it harshly at a bad angle once. And its the most state of the art suit I could ask for. It'll be years before I break the personal records I've set with it, if ever. The level of perfection still surprises me... I'm a picky critter and I would have thought by now I'd find SOMETHING I didn't like about it. But after maybe 200 jumps I'm still 100% satisfied and happy with it and to reward that outstanding effort I have directed as much sales Tony's way as I can. He's earned it with interest. I'd hoped to do this for Jari, but after what I got from Birdman, forget it.

If Jari is ever going to rise from the ashes he has a lot of catching up to do. A pity. I was such a fan of his suits for so long... I was not a fan of Tony's designs for quite awhile, but when he finally whipped one out that satisfied me, he did it so overwhelmingly that it'll be very hard to sell me another suit made by anyone else. Brand wars don't interest me at all... but quality, well, quality wins me over every time. If I ever encounter a suit design that beats his, I'll fly that... but I don't expect that to happen for quite some time.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[VectorBoy 0]

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This is kind of sad... end of an era.
My first suit was a GTI. Excellent suit. Delivered quickly. I flew it for years.

By the time I wore it out the S-6 was out. Jari made me a dealer... I sold only one suit... to myself. Delivered 6 freakin' months late

Your problem is you have a bad attitude. If you would just spend more time jumping with noobs and doing your part to advance the sport the three remaining manufacturers would have a much bigger market to sell to and wouldn't be on the verge of going under. Do your part! At this rate you will never be one of the "chosen few".

[lurch 0]

Play the clown much VB?
Your shit is weak.
I'll play straight man so you can work on it.
I spend half my time training newbs.
Define "Chosen few". Load of crap. You want a prominent part in the wingsuit arts you choose yourself, like I did. I'm largely responsible for turning the northeast into a wingsuit Mecca. What have -you- done?

Couldn't give a fuck less about sponsorships elite teams status or any of that crap. "Chosen few" my ass. Somehow I get invited to more events than I can attend anyway. Go figure. It comes from the heart or its not worth doing.

Don't need sponsorships... I used to build half my own gear custom anyway. I lose my job and can't afford to fly and I don't even need to advertise... the students seek me out, JSho, Rick, my students and all my brothers keep me in the air and take care of me, and I, them.
If that ain't "chosen few" I don't know what is.
Not that it matters, I fly for the camraderie and the joy of it.
Why do YOU fly?
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[VectorBoy 0]

>Your shit is weak.
Its the same medicine you guys gave me last week. Smell it, now take it.

> You want a prominent part in the wingsuit arts you choose yourself, like I did. I'm largely responsible for turning the northeast into a wingsuit Mecca. What have -you- done?

I've got everything I want from wingsuiting, even at 50% . I've always wanted to meet the one responsible for "Bringing it" (wingsuiting) to the northeast.

>Why do YOU fly?

Because I can.

[lurch 0]

Your first line, you're starting to sound like Yuri, man. Not a good role model. You come off negative, you think those of us who love this aren't going to at least point out that we disagree?

If you've got everything you wanted, good. So have I. If you're ever in the Boston area, come fly with me. I fly with ALL crowds... west coast, east coast, z-flock, the Euro guys... all suits, anyone who loves to fly.

But you're gonna have to work on your trash talking skills and up your game a little if you wanna keep up with the likes of US. Chuck Blue showed me how it was done back in the day right before he ruined my suit, but you know, it looked a little less shabby without the decals anyway. Chuck's got wisdom like that, sort of like Master Yoda on a bender. I've been drunk-dialing him on occasion ever since.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[VectorBoy 0]

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Your first line, you're starting to sound like Yuri, man. Not a good role model.

If you've got everything you wanted, good. So have I. If you're ever in the Boston area, come fly with me. I fly with ALL crowds

Yuri light... less math more sense for the non engineers.

I might have liked to fly with ya's but with the tripple digit growth WS is experiencing I can stay here and avoid all the dangerous crowds. Chance of weather hold zilch. The friendly skies are all mine.

[mccordia 74]

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I might have liked to fly with ya's but with the tripple digit growth WS is experiencing I can stay here and avoid all the dangerous crowds.

Some of the newer flyers with only 50 to 60 wingsuit jumps fly a lot better (due to 3000 or so previous FS/FF jumps) than some of the rusty old-timers I hear talking on and on about the golden age, and how the sport went to shit when someone else besides them was doing it...

VectorBoy should find a balcony, and do the nagging old folks comments on the muppetshow (only sadly without being funny or even just any good at it)

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[VectorBoy 0]

According to DSE we are experiencing a large volume of incidents accidents and fatalities in WS he is urging the governing bodies to take action. So which is it they are better now or they're not?

I'm better than I ever was, still doin it too.

[Skybear 0]

Why the f..k are you turning this thread into a brand war? Why must it always sound like: My wingsuit brand is the best ever and all the others are stupid idiots with no service and crappy suits?

Thanks to Jari and Robert for engineering and selling a wingsuit that is suitable for the average skydiver. Birdman made history in skydiving. As much as I appreciate Roberts and Tonys business I hope that Jari will be back after relaxing for a while.

[mccordia 74]

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According to DSE we are experiencing a large volume of incidents accidents and fatalities in WS he is urging the governing bodies to take action. So which is it they are better now or they're not?.

With a larger volume of people being trained, you will also see more accidents. Though they might stay the same statisticly.
Though the recent advancements in wingsuitflying have also lead to a situation where you see people taking the material to lighthearted.

And skipping important parts of the skydive and related safety checks and aspects can suddenly turn into lethal mistakes.

Good training is important, and slowly working to create a more uniform and structured approach to that one is key safety aspect we need to work on.

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I'm better than I ever was, still doin it too.

You may believe you are the most awesome instructor in the world, though you may or may not use the training method developed over many years and worked on by a lot of experienced and knowledgeable people in the sport. But Ive also met some of the worst, shittiest flyers in the world, and they also had that same view about their own horrid instructional and flying skills. Everyone is always the best he or she can be in his/her own mind.

But unless we have a standard everyone adheres to, you will never know if all your students survive on skill and knowledge or sheer luck.

And the list of minor and major incidents and accidents is long enough to show a more structured approach is needed. There is a lot of stuff that happens on big and small dropzones that never makes it to the little nerdfest some people hear see as the all-knowing center of the universe..

If a friend of yours picks someone to teach him/her to fly a wingsuit, wouldnt you want to know (similar to AFF, tandem etc) that the person who lists himself as an instructor/coach has the skills and knowledge to teach your beloved friend everything in a safe way?

You are (again) the old man who doesnt like change. But as the dicipline (hidden from your eyes of course) keeps growing...we also need to work on overcoming the growing pains. And shaping up, and trying to work on a bit more structure and dicipline in the way its taught is an important step in that process.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[mr_prick 0]

i don't see a brand war, i see egos on fire.

[mccordia 74]

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i don't see a brand war, i see egos on fire.

I dont think its egos...just safety in general..
To me its always funny many people brag about instruction, but when it comes to creating a universal standard, where every coach/instructor should showcase the didactic and flying skills needed for proper training, many people go into a big spaz.

And some just seem to love to disagree for the sake of disagreeing..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[virgin-burner 1]

and what i see is princesses in fancy dresses that act like fucking pussies, this subforum has become the incarnation of dork- or dramazone, whichever you may prefer. silly.

every thread lately has either turned to brandwars or "my kung-fu is better than yours".

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[GeordieSkydiver 0]

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And some just seem to love to disagree for the sake of disagreeing..

No we don't.

Lee _______________________________

In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy?
http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk

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[notsane 0]

My experience was somewhat similar, Lurch. I "trained" in 1999 from Jari and Robert at WFFC Quincy. I later purchased a GTi and an S3. I jumped that S3 until it was a rag ... I still have it.

Later, Chris Ware and I ordered two Phi's for ourselves. It took nearly a year for the suits to arrive ... and they were cursed with the dreaded mylar.

That experience put me off BM permanently.

Best of luck to Jari, though. You were there at the start and helped make this a sport rather than a stunt.

[VectorBoy 0]

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Why the f..k are you turning this thread into a brand war? Why must it always sound like: My wingsuit brand is the best ever and all the others are stupid idiots with no service and crappy suits?

Actually I don't have a favorite brand and have owned every suit that was on the market at one time. In this thread I bring up the fact that quality from every manufacturer should come way up. Someone else ran with a comment I made and spun it into another thread about how small this market is.

Its that simple just a few facts, Then out of the wood work come all of the critics, like zits on a fat chicks ass, to attack my two simple notions:

1 Quality needs to come universally across all makes

2 It is a small market, screw a potential wingsuit customer and they quit. they will do other kinds of jumps with cooler kids or just buy a bunch of motorcycles and have menage a trois on ski vacations = business lost.

They polluted the tread with aspects that have nothing to do with bird man closing or the other two points above. Just stuff like "I'm blah chosen few blah". " I 'm responsible for teaching all of the wingsuits in the north east hemisphere of the globe" Blah. We are all sponsored and get huge discounts on suits while others pay full price for a very good reason blah....... oh and I have a bad attitude.

I just don't see brand war in anything I've said but you might just be slow and not right in the head.

[VectorBoy 0]

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I'm better than I ever was, still doin it too.

You may believe you are the most awesome instructor in the world, though you may or may not use the training method developed over many years and worked on by a lot of experienced and knowledgeable people in the sport.

[bodypilot1 0]

Glen, spit the hook out, Buddy.....

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[badenhop 0]

true that
once upon a time a box showed up
in it was a wingsuit
no instructions
no instructors

==================================

I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[Helmut 0]

I think the biggest issue and question is where is our moderator going to end up? PF,TS etc???????