Avikus 0 #1 August 8, 2011 Hey there! New here! Got my Solo certification a few days ago. Did 4 jump since. I'm proud to say I got an addiction to the sport! So I've talk to some people at my drop zone and a few of them said that I would have to start thinking about changing my gear from a student (270) to something better along my experience tru out the sport. So I was thinking that before I get a smaller canopy I would have to master the one I have right now right? So if I could get a few pointers on what I should master that would be appreciated. I've heard someone saying I had to learn to land front\cross\down wind. What does that mean? Cheers! -A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TSISK 0 #2 August 8, 2011 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=47 would be a good place to start. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #3 August 8, 2011 you dont know what cross- or downwind is!? seriously!?!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voilsb 1 #4 August 8, 2011 This is not the 270 I was expecting. I'm glad. Talk to your instructors about when and how to downsize. Bill Von's checklist posted above is a good guide, as is Brian Germain's Downizing Criterion. Read all 22 pages of it.Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 August 8, 2011 Quote This is not the 270 I was expecting. I'm glad. Same here. Then I thought "Gee, I've been doing 270s for a very long time and I'm still getting more out of cleaning everything up."--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petejones45 0 #6 August 8, 2011 Quote you dont know what cross- or downwind is!? seriously!?!? with all do respect that is not a topic explained in a first jump course nor durin yer a cretificationLook out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #7 August 8, 2011 Quote Quote you dont know what cross- or downwind is!? seriously!?!? with all do respect that is not a topic explained in a first jump course nor durin yer a cretification oh, it's not!? then how would you explain a student the pattern or how the windsock is used!? no wonder people keep dying with such a sub-standard edumucation..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 569 #8 August 8, 2011 Quote Hey there! New here! Got my Solo certification a few days ago. Did 4 jump since. I'm proud to say I got an addiction to the sport! So I've talk to some people at my drop zone and a few of them said that I would have to start thinking about changing my gear from a student (270) to something better along my experience tru out the sport. So I was thinking that before I get a smaller canopy I would have to master the one I have right now right? So if I could get a few pointers on what I should master that would be appreciated. I've heard someone saying I had to learn to land front\cross\down wind. What does that mean? Cheers! -A I would listen to your instructors. There is nothing wrong with moving off of student equipment and onto other rental gear. Just keep your wingloading low (no greater than 1.0:1) and continue to soak up knowledge and skills. It would help to give put some detail in your profile. I respect that many people don't put personal details on the web, but Country or State, height and weight are really useful. It allows people familiar with your location to provide relevant advice. Be very careful of what advice you listen to. You mention front/cross/down wind. The only context I know of "front" being used is front risers and I would hope that you only take advice on that from an instructor. Crosswind and downwind are the directions relative to the wind. Normally we try and land into the wind for the slowest speed relative to the ground.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rigless 0 #9 August 8, 2011 Quote you dont know what cross- or downwind is!? seriously!?!? haha Now I understand why most of you are crying about downsizing and CP in general.. Most of the people here shouldn't be flying a canopy in the first place! "All limits are self imposed." Icarus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 53 #10 August 8, 2011 Quote So I've talk to some people at my drop zone and a few of them said that I would have to start thinking about changing my gear from a student (270) to something better along my experience tru out the sport. So I was thinking that before I get a smaller canopy ... Downsizing is not a requirement. There are many advantages to jumping a larger canopy. There's no reason you can't jump a student sized canopy the rest of your jumping life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petejones45 0 #11 August 8, 2011 Quote Quote Quote you dont know what cross- or downwind is!? seriously!?!? with all do respect that is not a topic explained in a first jump course nor durin yer a cretification oh, it's not!? then how would you explain a student the pattern or how the windsock is used!? no wonder people keep dying with such a sub-standard edumucation.. as far as landings go. students are not taught howto land cross or downwindLook out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,075 #12 August 8, 2011 >with all do respect that is not a topic explained in a first jump course It's explained in ours (although we use the term "base" instead of "crosswind" when referring to a part of the pattern.) As part of this we take them outside and have them "walk the pattern" where they walk across a field that simulates the DZ. They get told what they will see during flight downwind (faster groundspeed) and crosswind (crabbing motion) and how that will affect where they end up. They are also "land themselves" several times, calling out base and final. In the air when they are told to turn 90 degrees for base, they are told "you're on your base leg now." (Same for final.) So they get a fair amount of explanation at least in our FJC's. Nothing like what they would get in a canopy course, of course, but after an FJC they should at least understand the terms and why the are important. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #13 August 8, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote you don't know what cross- or downwind is!? seriously!?!? with all do respect that is not a topic explained in a first jump course nor during yer a certification oh, it's not!? then how would you explain a student the pattern or how the windsock is used!? no wonder people keep dying with such a sub-standard edumucation.. as far as landings go. students are not taught how to land cross or downwind ??? They're not ??? Granted I'm no longer a Instructor, but that was always a significant part of the course in the places I taught. Just curious and don't take this wrong, where did you take your instruction? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinciflies 0 #14 August 8, 2011 Quote as far as landings go. students are not taught howto land cross or downwind FJC students are told how to flare and are told that landing into the wind is desirable, but not the first (or even second or third) priority. Ergo, the possibility of landing cross- or down-wind is covered. Wing level, feet and knees together, prepare to PLF and finish your flare is good advice for students regardless of landing direction. What differences would you have them learn? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #15 August 8, 2011 Quote with all do respect that is not a topic explained in a first jump course nor durin yer a cretification With all due respect - I taught 2 AFF FJC's over this past weekend, personally, and would not hesitate an instant to give you any of my attending student's direct contact info with absolute full confidence they would/could indeed correctly answer this.coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #16 August 8, 2011 Quote Quote with all do respect that is not a topic explained in a first jump course nor durin yer a cretification With all due respect - I taught 2 AFF FJC's over this past weekend, personally, and would not hesitate an instant to give you any of my attending student's direct contact info with absolute full confidence they would/could indeed correctly answer this. this is what i hope; otherwise, again, i'm not surprised by the number of deaths.. this is BASIC knowledge about canopy-flight. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avikus 0 #17 August 8, 2011 Quote It would help to give put some detail in your profile. I respect that many people don't put personal details on the web, but Country or State, height and weight are really useful. It allows people familiar with your location to provide relevant advice. Done! Somehow ;) And no we didn't learn about down cross winds. But then again, I didn't make the class. And I had multiple teachers but one that I stuck on the longest turned out to not be a very good teacher! Got a mentor now that is showing me the rope. But I am fully aware that I need a lot of experience before actually down sizing. I'm in no rush of doing so! I feel in love with the sport and will take all the time in the world to get good at it!Avikus - Packer and Jumper - Hate landing with the plane! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #18 August 9, 2011 Quote with all do respect that is not a topic explained in a first jump course nor durin yer a cretification......as far as landings go. students are not taught howto land cross or downwind With all due respect you are wrong again. These are just a few of the things covered in the ISP program. Where did you get your training? Sparky Canopy control, landing approach, landing principles, more on the landing pattern, landing patterns for higher winds, downwind landings, rear riser control, high-wind landings, braked turns, approaches, and landings, maximum-performance canopy turns, front riser control My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 569 #19 August 9, 2011 Quote Quote with all do respect that is not a topic explained in a first jump course nor durin yer a cretification......as far as landings go. students are not taught howto land cross or downwind With all due respect you are wrong again. These are just a few of the things covered in the ISP program. Where did you get your training? Sparky Canopy control, landing approach, landing principles, more on the landing pattern, landing patterns for higher winds, downwind landings, rear riser control, high-wind landings, braked turns, approaches, and landings, maximum-performance canopy turns, front riser control While it is covered in a FJC, I think it highlights the fact that people are expected to absorb quite a lot of information in a single sitting. Some people grew up around aircraft or skydiving so the terminology and basic concepts are familiar, but not everyone does. I think it goes to show how important continuing education throughout the learning process is. It is also one of my pet peeves with regards to a system where people don't have a single instructor for the bulk of their training. Different instructors emphasis different things at different times and it is quite easy for information to fall through the gaps. By the way the ISP is really good if people bother to read it, but it does require a grasp of terminology.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #20 August 9, 2011 Quote By the way the ISP is really good if people bother to read it, but it does require a grasp of terminology. There is a lot of good things available but it seems people are too busy or just too lazy to read it. They want to be spoon fed. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daremrc 0 #21 August 9, 2011 Quote you dont know what cross- or downwind is!? seriously!?!? Easy man... No need to create an environmet where people are afraid to ask a question because it might be deemed stupid. The guy has 18 jumps and he's asking questions.Good judgement comes from experience, and most of that comes from bad judgement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #22 August 9, 2011 Quote Quote you dont know what cross- or downwind is!? seriously!?!? Easy man... No need to create an environmet where people are afraid to ask a question because it might be deemed stupid. The guy has 18 jumps and he's asking questions. yes, and at jump 1 he should have an idea what this is already. i'm not saying HE is stupid, i'm questioning his instructors ability, and so have others. it's legitimate!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daremrc 0 #23 August 10, 2011 Quote Quote Quote you dont know what cross- or downwind is!? seriously!?!? Easy man... No need to create an environmet where people are afraid to ask a question because it might be deemed stupid. The guy has 18 jumps and he's asking questions. yes, and at jump 1 he should have an idea what this is already. i'm not saying HE is stupid, i'm questioning his instructors ability, and so have others. it's legitimate! I agree, but he apparently fell thru some cracks and didn't. I don't think any newbies deserve the "Seriously, WTF you don't know xxxx??!?!?!" treatment, that's all.Good judgement comes from experience, and most of that comes from bad judgement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
