Hackey/Bridle issues... WAS Cold Weather..

[mccordia 74]

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gloves,etc can change the way things feel from suit fit to ones hackey

Would also like to add that wintertime is the perfect time to get that gear upgraded and replace (if present) hackey-balls on pilotchutes, by PVC plastic tubing or a (more secure) freefly pud.
There have been many malfunctions and even a fatality related to heavy hackey balls and pilot-chute handles with single-attachment points 'grabbing' the bridle that it doesnt make sense to jump such a setup.

Some motorcycle stores also offer battery heated thin liners, you can wear underneath your normal gloves to provide extra heat (for the colder regions where its really needed).

JC
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[DSE 5]

Rigging Innovations made me a super lite-weight hackey with a foam golfball inside.
It looks and feels like a heavy hackey but weighs next to nothing.
Just last week had an FFC where a heavy hackeysack caused a nasty hesitation.

[mccordia 74]

Weight is part of the problem, the single attachment point (snag) the 2nd part of the problem.

Ive witnessed a few to many malfunction like this (almost every DZ has one or more examples, bridle catching the hackeyball, entangling behind the single attachment point).
Next to freefly puds being much more secure for aerobatics, high speed exits etc. when it comes to relative wind, peoples hands etc catching/sliding across. But any alternative works, as long as its light and doesnt have a single attachment point, but a more secure double one, that doesnt create an obvious snag point for the bridle to catch.

JC
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[ifell 0]

If you could please explain what you mean by double attachment for the hackey, I don't undersatnd what you mean

Should I have my rigger sew more of the ball to the briddle?

[mccordia 74]

Mostly related to the way a piece of (orange) plastic tubing is attached.
Either with 1 thin attachment (allowing bridle to wrap/grab), or with a piece of binding tape sewn through. Effectivly tying the tube flat/flush to the topskin of the pilotchute.

You dont want to present any type of 'snag-able' line/attachment on top of your pilotchute.
The weight of most hackey-balls adds to that, by forcing the pilotchute to tumble with the weighted part leading, once it goes into the burble.

Several threads on the subject show (in flight) screengrabs of the bridle doing scary tumbles. Its quite easy to see it grab the bridle that's lighter, and causes a knot. It has happened on many occasions.

Just look at any wingsuit-pull, and notice there is always a stage where the bridle is behind the pilotchute (the moment its about to be let go).
This is a stage everyone goes through on any normal deployment. Its not difficult to imagine the hackeyball 'grabbing' the bridle, and entangling. As does happen. Its not something that happens daily. But for sure something that happens across the glove a double dozen times a year. For me, enough reason not to choose this type of deployment handle.

Ive even seen the same mallfunction on an FS jumper. In all cases it was the same type hackey-ball.

JC
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[ifell 0]

I'll look into this... Thanks

[ifell 0]

Ok so this has been on my mind quite a bite, looking at my rig I think I understand what you meant... Here is a pic I took of my setup, I think this is what you meant although I am still concerned with the weight of it causing problems

[dontsplatmatt 0]

I didn't understand what you guys were talking about so I searched a bit and read some other threads, but I'm still not completely clear. I get that a heavy handle moves slower than the pilot chute and bridle and as it catches up the bridle can loop around it and knot itself. I still don't understand what single attachment point means and how it contributes to this though.

Thanks,
Matt

[SethInMI 174]

A double attachment is for tube handles. There is much less for the bridle to get hooked under. My tube handle in the pic is attached by a piece of tape that runs through it and that is sewn down at both ends.

A (freefly) pud handle can be attached via a sewn strip, making it also difficult for the bridle to hook it.

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[ifell 0]

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I still don't understand what single attachment point means and how it contributes to this though.

Thats my issue as well, I do know what you mean by single attachment point but I don't see how it affects deployment compared to a double attachment point

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Just look at any wingsuit-pull, and notice there is always a stage where the bridle is behind the pilotchute (the moment its about to be let go).
This is a stage everyone goes through on any normal deployment. Its not difficult to imagine the hackeyball 'grabbing' the bridle, and entangling. As does happen. Its not something that happens daily. But for sure something that happens across the glove a double dozen times a year. For me, enough reason not to choose this type of deployment handle.

I don't get this kindda trouble since I pull from full flight. I get better and cleaner openings.

[mccordia 74]

Its more an issue on full flight pulls than 'normal' ones.
The number of people who've experienced this malfunction is quite large. Its the setup, not the pull method.

JC
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[phoenixlpr 0]

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Its more an issue on full flight pulls than 'normal' ones.
The number of people who've experienced this malfunction is quite large. Its the setup, not the pull method.

Classic/student pull method creates bigger burble than full flight. I got all kindda fun when I used the classic method, than I went back to pulling from full flight. No more issues since than.

[mccordia 74]

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Classic/student pull method creates bigger burble than full flight. I got all kindda fun when I used the classic method, than I went back to pulling from full flight. No more issues since than.

You are talking about hesitations. Different subject than this.
Most incidents (and one fatal accident in base) have been with full flight pulls. Its the gear, not the method used.

JC
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[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

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Classic/student pull method creates bigger burble than full flight. I got all kindda fun when I used the classic method, than I went back to pulling from full flight. No more issues since than.

You are talking about hesitations. Different subject than this.
Most incidents (and one fatal accident in base) have been with full flight pulls. Its the gear, not the method used.

I would not call a knot on a bridle a sign of hesitation.
I have not seen those again since I full from full flight.....
Your choice of small or big burble...

[mccordia 74]

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I would not call a knot on a bridle a sign of hesitation.
I have not seen those again since I full from full flight.....
Your choice of small or big burble...

Its not a knotted bridle. Its a bridle that catches the pilotchute, as it leaves your hand. Most incidents happened during full flight pulls, and have nothing to do with big or small burbles. Its a gear feature (snagpoint on your pilotchute). Not pull method.

JC
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[dontsplatmatt 0]

Gotcha. So my monkey fist looks like a kind of middle ground as far as risk. It has two attachment points (the piece of tape is routed through the monkey fist) but it is not completely sewn down so there is still a slight risk of it hooking. Sounds like it might be a good idea to get a freefly handle.

[monkycndo 0]

The monkey fist would only be considered 1 point. The 2 tapes go into the PC at the same location. A tube with the tape that goes all the way through and is sewn at both ends would be a 2 point attachment.

A monkey fist tends to be heavy. That is why I don't use one. I do use a hacky, but it is small and is sewn tightly to the PC. When I replace my PC, I might change to a pud or tube. Haven't decided yet.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[mccordia 74]

Crawling through the plane as the 'special needs children' we are, a more secure freefly pud also is a good idea.
Pilotchutes coming out in freefall, due to someone sliding across your back in an exit are also much less of a risk with that one...

JC
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[notsane 0]

The monkey fist PC handle is a perfect example of what PC handle not to use. The heavy monkey fist tumbles around as the PC leaves your hand ... even worse with a single attachment point ... regardless of flight speed or position. I have seen this setup cause PC in tow when the PC handle fell into one of the holes in the PC, knotted around the PC itself or knotted around the bridle. WooHoo! Cross your fingers as your reserve rockets past that flopping PC and bridle!

BASE jumpers can't afford a PC malfunction. Check out BASE gear and see how many BASE jumpers use a heavy little PC handles .... none.

Imagine your obit saying that you died because of a monkey-fist ...