Honest question here...

[millertime24 8]

So I posted a vid of a jump me and my buds did today. In the vid you can clearly see that the guy in the X-Bird went into a flat spin on exit. Quade thinks that we (my other friend and I) should have chased him down to be a "beddy" (to what end he hasn't told us).

Am I a fucked up guy for finishing the dive plan?

Here's the thread:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4121028;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Here's the jump:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9iRirDUY1k

Muff #5048

[MrCat 0]

Nope.

I've been the guys in the spin and I didn't get my panties in a twist when I came out of it and the guys weren't waiting for me.

My only concern was where they were when I was opening.

Jump more, post less.

[mccordia 74]

If someone is spinning out of control:

- get out the way
- debrief his reaction/ EPs
- ask if his experience fits the suit he/she flies

By sticking with someone you only risk endangering yourself when he/she suddenly flies out of it.
Nothing you can do to intervene/help anyways...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[mccordia 74]

May also want to fix that hackeyball, get it switched for a PVC tube or freeflypud (or anything with a double attachment point).

Especialy on big suits and large burbles, more than a realistic threat...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[yeyo 1]

I had a similar experience but it was just a 2way....I followed him from a safe distance until he recovered around 6000', landed out with him to make sure everything was ok...also I had a phone with me and I knew he didnt have one.
If it was a 3way+ like in your case, I would have done the same you did.

HISPA #93
DS #419.5

[DSE 5]

FWIW, I don't like PUDs as handles; they feel too much like the padded grippers on many suits. I like my double-attached hackey, but it's also lighter than most (foam ball covered in leather).

As far as leaving the buddy behind; I feel it's situational. Of course stay out of his way, but also be aware of where he's heading if he's not recovering quickly. In a city center airport like Ogden, the outs kinda suck and landing off in a difficult area after a disorienting skydive...I'dappreciate a buddy being with me.

[The111 1]

Whenever I see a fellow jumper in trouble, in freefall, seeing the resolution of those troubles takes priority for me over any other dive plan. Even if I couldn't have helped him physically pull, I would have wanted to keep him in sight for the many other good reasons mentioned in the bonfire thread.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[piisfish 140]

Quote

Whenever I see a fellow jumper in trouble, in freefall, seeing the resolution of those troubles takes priority for me over any other dive plan. Even if I couldn't have helped him physically pull, I would have wanted to keep him in sight for the many other good reasons mentioned in the bonfire thread.

same for me, plus I love to land out.. So any outlanding is good to take I remember for my 1st cutaway I landed way off the DZ and was more than happy when a good friend of mine landed with me.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[mccordia 74]

Quote

I don't like PUDs as handle

Im quite a promoter for the use of them. Mainly due to it being a lot more secure than any other type of hackey. A brush past it (which can happen is exit) wont dislodge it. And with some of the backflying, diving etc doing speeds similar (or past) freeflying, Im quite a fan of the setup.

Doesnt mean any other type of handle (light/double attachment point) is wrong. But not as secure, when scuffling around a plane, and crawling/turning around in tight planes...

With regards to following someone, I do see a difference between 'keep an eye on someone' and 'try and stay with them'. Saying 'f8k you and shooting of in the distance is of course a no go, but no need to also dive yourself into an out landing, or dive into airspace with other jumpers/canopies etc while following an unpredictable moving target'.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[LetsGoOutside 0]

Quote

If someone is spinning out of control:

- get out the way
- debrief his reaction/ EPs
- ask if his experience fits the suit he/she flies

By sticking with someone you only risk endangering yourself when he/she suddenly flies out of it.
Nothing you can do to intervene/help anyways...

+1

Edit: To expound upon that... If so and so blacks out or can't recover from their flat spin and you try to help, you're more likely to end up with two jumpers plummeting out of control instead of one. You should keep an eye on the situation, but no more. It's hard enough to stop a flat spinning bellyflyer. In a wingsuit... forget about it.

To the spinning jumper... not sure what the experience is, but you should realize that larger suits take extra care on exit.

[mccordia 74]

Quote

To the spinning jumper... not sure what the experience is, but you should realize that larger suits take extra care on exit.

Check out the thread on the incident forum on the tail/rear-stabilaser hit.
Armwings behind you (not in front, you'll cup air when opening up) knees back (bent hard, dont put them forward and create a de-arch!) and close the legs together and bend the knees.
If you're unsure you can do this, sit down in the door before exit. It takes half a second extra but beats the alternative...


To add to that one, we had a jumper break an ankle with a big wingsuit last weekend in Belgium.

He exited the airplane with the legwing open, and before even having gotten completely out the door his feet got swept away from under him, and he got smacked into the rear of the door-frame. Cleared the tail without problems, but had a swollen ankle on landing and doctors later declared it broken.

Be carefull.....and if you're doing flocking jumps under 2,5/3 minutes...pick a more suitable size/model...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
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[The111 1]

Quote

Armwings behind you (not in front, you'll cup air when opening up)

With your arms in front, if you do it properly (fists to opposite shoulders, straitjacket position) then you will get far less drag this way. No matter how far you put your arms behind you, your upper arms and elbows are still exposed.

But, either way is sufficient really.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[mccordia 74]

On big surface suits, with the wingsuit past the hips/down to the knees, arms held in front of the body create a huge cupped surface.
The arms only collapse the surface connected directly to the arms. The part from the hips to the knees is pulled tight/forward, creating a huge airbreak. Arms in front also usually leads to a crouched/bent forward position from tucking arms close.

On smaller suits there isnt much difference between arms front/back. But on big surface models, front is definatly not where you want to have them.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
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[gzimmermann 0]

Exits with bigger suits could be a good topic for the next flylikebrick video and for a 201 pf course. Many of us P2/T-birds would appreciate guidance compared to what we did so far after our first flight courses

Edit to add: 202, recovery techniques (hands on your but, arch, thx Spot) and AGAIN 203: navigation, pattern and watch out for fellow flying objects and tandems landing with you AND my absolute 001: don't just dress in a WS and jump your 201st without a course.

[mccordia 74]

regardless of arm position, most tail/door strikes we see involve exits with most of the legwing and/or armwings open and exposed and exits usually off-axis relative to an ideal exit position/orientation.

Its safe to say all would be better of having a good presentation, with a closed/symetrical body position showing as little wing as possible.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[lurch 0]

Straitjacket position is what I used for the 147 kt Otter exits I used to do I mentioned in the tailstrike thread.
Arms across the chest guarantees your wings can't blow open, plus it deletes the surface area of arms by your sides. I still use a modified version of this approach to manage sketchy C182 climbouts if the cut isn't to my liking, clinging to the strut without extending my arms and keeping my hands in front of my chest. Launching an S-Bird off a step with a poor cut and the tail right there behind you takes some careful handling, but staying small and just dropping off works fine.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[Butters 0]

If it's a two way I'll chase, if it's a three way it depends on other things whether I'll chase or finish the dive plan, if it's a four (or more) way I'll finish the dive plan.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[mccordia 74]

Im not sure Id follow...

If you dont trust a person and his/her skills enough to have em get out of that spin, its better to advise them to jump a smaller suit before you board the plane..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
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