SuperGirl 0 #76 October 11, 2011 Quote One day you'll realize that small suits are only for...... but...but...[sniff]...but I thought bigger suits made guys have bigger penises! have I been fooled all this time?? oh geez!! Quote Order yourself a P2 and get it over with. pretty sure Butters has one already, and flies it pretty damn well, too! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #77 October 11, 2011 QuoteButters, sometimes there is more than one right way to do things, you know. -B I know this. However, I don't think this is one of those times. Edit: In regards to cost of multiple suits. If people purchased a small suit first (to learn on) and a large suit later then they would have all the suits they need."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #78 October 11, 2011 Just wait'll you see the new PCS-12 wingsuit being developed by a leading manufacturer. It'll make your meager 6" package look like a whopping 12" of snow! It also doubles as a rudder. The Penis Compensating Suit will give you a massive package, bad-ass big arch skillz, and even though your arms are bent way back and your head is up, you'll still a super cool kid. Buy two and you'll get the covered main and built-in reserve tray with special "unzip after malfuction" feature that everyone is begging for. You can buy/rent/borrow one sight unseen, no experience required. Order now, and you'll get the free zipper lubricant, handy how-to guide, and we'll even throw in pockets for weights (weights not included, see your local quarry or hamburger joint). Supplies limited, so don't wait! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electronaut 0 #79 October 11, 2011 Does it come in all black and have multiple mounting places for GoPros? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #80 October 11, 2011 QuoteAs Kallend pointed out in another thread, the greater the weight, the greater the disturbance to the air .... I think you are both off base there in terms of the aerodynamics - flapping causes bad aerodynamic shedding (i.e., bad air). certainly more weight means you are moving 'more' air (balance of mass, balance of force....) but moving air doesn't = 'disturbance' ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #81 October 11, 2011 QuoteQuotethough I'd suspect a camera suit fit would be more analogous to wingsuiting that FF or RW Are people doing relative work in camera suits? No. As Kallend pointed out in another thread, the greater the weight, the greater the disturbance to the air ... if you're trying to fly in close proximity to other people it's probably best to minimize disturbance. you were looking for analogies - this response makes no sense. In RW, yes....we do weight up to allow us to fly in our comfort zones. I suspect the range of WS flying is much larger though, so weighing up or down seems to be a bigger risk when trying make a single suit meet all your needs...... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #82 October 11, 2011 QuoteQuoteAs Kallend pointed out in another thread, the greater the weight, the greater the disturbance to the air .... I think you are both off base there in terms of the aerodynamics - flapping causes bad aerodynamic shedding (i.e., bad air). certainly more weight means you are moving 'more' air (balance of mass, balance of force....) but moving air doesn't = 'disturbance' Feel free to take your argument up with Kallend."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #83 October 11, 2011 Quoteyou were looking for analogies - this response makes no sense. In RW, yes....we do weight up to allow us to fly in our comfort zones. In RW do you choose a looser suit (that helps you fall slower) and then add weight (that helps you fall faster)? No, because it's counterproductive. As stated, I can agree that adding weight has it's place as long as it's place is after choosing an appropriate suit."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #84 October 11, 2011 QuoteAs stated, I can agree that adding weight has it's place as long as it's place is after choosing an appropriate suit. that is analogous (to the other note - some old timers, or newbies, or non-competitive types will buy a loose suit - for comfort - and then weight up........sucks for them to have too big a suit....) aerodynamics come first - in RW, that would faster fall rate and cleaner lines. I suspect in WS, then the priority would be a brisk forward velocity rather than people getting bogged down by those lagging - we've talked this stuff before and I like your vision - I just don't get the contention in this thread - but I will say that WS'ers seem to be pretty courteous about ideas compared to other disciplines. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #85 October 11, 2011 QuoteQuoteAs stated, I can agree that adding weight has it's place as long as it's place is after choosing an appropriate suit. that is analogous (to the other note - some old timers, or newbies, or non-competitive types will buy a loose suit - for comfort - and then weight up........sucks for them to have too big a suit....) aerodynamics come first - in RW, that would faster fall rate and cleaner lines. I suspect in WS, then the priority would be a brisk forward velocity rather than people getting bogged down by those lagging - we've talked this stuff before and I like your vision - I just don't get the contention in this thread - but I will say that WS'ers seem to be pretty courteous about ideas compared to other disciplines. In WS a larger suit does not mean a looser, flapping suit as it does in RW. Butters seems to have no concept of what is meant by "wing loading". Maybe he should spend some time with glider pilots, the people who REALLY know about glide performance. (BTW, I earned my glider license in 1991).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #86 October 11, 2011 Quote Butters seems to have no concept of what is meant by "wing loading". I think unlike you, Butters actually has a lot of experience flying closeenough range and actually docking in WINGSUIT formations, and has actual experience with the much wider cone of dirty air spilling of the sides of the big suits. He doesnt need to post about his glider licence, mcdonalds coupon card and wallmart happy client card for street-cred eitherJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #87 October 11, 2011 Quote Quote Butters seems to have no concept of what is meant by "wing loading". I think unlike you, Butters actually has a lot of experience flying closeenough range and actually docking in WINGSUIT formations, and has actual experience with the much wider cone of dirty air spilling of the sides of the big suits. He doesnt need to post about his glider licence, mcdonalds coupon card and wallmart happy client card for street-cred either When wingsuits approach the performance of even the lowest performance sailplanes, you may just have a point. Sailplane designers and pilots figured out decades ago concepts that most wingsuiters are still struggling with.Even wonderfully talented WS flyers like you and Butters are still subject to the laws of physics.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #88 October 11, 2011 QuoteIn WS a larger suit does not mean a looser, flapping suit as it does in RW. . That's not the analogy I was stating - you're a bit obtuse on purpose at times, John. But at least you could tack on a personal insult to Butters in the same post. I'm talking about smooth airflow. RW big and loose and weighted - when one could fly a better fit seems to me to be analogous to WS flying with your legs bent up when one could also make better choices and fly it cleaner and faster I"m not taking sides, just trying to answer the analogy question = but you could actually read my comment as supportive of you wearing weights to allow you to fly all out instead sacrificing body position to match fall rate (that read would be true). ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #89 October 12, 2011 Quote Quote In WS a larger suit does not mean a looser, flapping suit as it does in RW. . That's not the analogy I was stating - you're a bit obtuse on purpose at times, John. But at least you could tack on a personal insult to Butters in the same post. I'm talking about smooth airflow. RW big and loose and weighted - when one could fly a better fit seems to me to be analogous to WS flying with your legs bent up when one could also make better choices and fly it cleaner and faster I"m not taking sides, just trying to answer the analogy question = but you could actually read my comment as supportive of you wearing weights to allow you to fly all out instead sacrificing body position to match fall rate (that read would be true). Well, some people choose to fly with legs bent up (as any WS flock photo will show) while I choose to wear weight WHEN (and ONLY when) flocking with people who fall at 80+mph vertical speed. I suppose I could fly legs bent, or spend $1400 on a different suit so I can flock with the fat bastards, but I find it altogether more expedient to put my $50 RW weight belt under my suit. Get to spend more money on jumps that way... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #90 October 12, 2011 QuoteIn WS a larger suit does not mean a looser, flapping suit as it does in RW. . QuoteI'm talking about smooth airflow. Just because a wingsuit isn't flapping doesn't mean the airflow is smooth. Those of us flying in close proximity to other wingsuits know this ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #91 October 12, 2011 QuoteQuoteIn WS a larger suit does not mean a looser, flapping suit as it does in RW. . QuoteI'm talking about smooth airflow. Just because a wingsuit isn't flapping doesn't mean the airflow is smooth. Those of us flying in close proximity to other wingsuits know this ... Anyone who has taken pilot training knows this. Anyone who has done RW knows this. Anyone who has done vRW knows this. Did you have a point?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #92 October 12, 2011 Quote Anyone who has taken pilot training knows this. Did you have a point? Not a single pilot has experience with an airplane that varies in size/shape/form/weight so much as wingsuits. But great effort at more street-cred with unrelated subjects and skills, when the real flying experience (lots of docked formation stuff in wingsuit) mentioned is not availableJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #93 October 12, 2011 Quote Quote Anyone who has taken pilot training knows this. Did you have a point? Not a single pilot has experience with an airplane that varies in size/shape/form/weight so much as wingsuits. But great effort at more street-cred with unrelated subjects and skills, when the real flying experience (lots of docked formation stuff in wingsuit) mentioned is not available Not even spectacular WS flyers like you are exempted from the laws of physics. What is your exit weight (kg or pounds will do)?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #94 October 12, 2011 Quote Quote Anyone who has taken pilot training knows this. Did you have a point? Not a single pilot has experience with an airplane that varies in size/shape/form/weight so much as wingsuits. But great effort at more street-cred with unrelated subjects and skills, when the real flying experience (lots of docked formation stuff in wingsuit) mentioned is not available But, but, but in theory blah blah blah ... I'll stick with reality."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #95 October 12, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Anyone who has taken pilot training knows this. Did you have a point? Not a single pilot has experience with an airplane that varies in size/shape/form/weight so much as wingsuits. But great effort at more street-cred with unrelated subjects and skills, when the real flying experience (lots of docked formation stuff in wingsuit) mentioned is not available But, but, but in theory blah blah blah ... I'll stick with reality. Like the Earth is flat. and the Sun revolves around it. Which laws of physics that relate to flight do you disbelieve? Which laws of physics are inapplicable to you? What is your exit weight?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #96 October 12, 2011 Quote Not even spectacular WS flyers like you are exempted from the laws of physics. Noop...but we also grasp the full spectrum of things coming into play when you actually fly instead of applying only half the physics that come into play during nightly drunk typing rantsJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #97 October 12, 2011 Quote Quote Not even spectacular WS flyers like you are exempted from the laws of physics. Noop...but we also grasp the full spectrum of things coming into play when you actually fly instead of applying only half the physics that come into play during nightly drunk typing rants Being insulting generally means that you can't justify your position. You have not given a single reason why adjusting fall rate by buying a set of expensive suits is better than adjusting fall rate with a cheap weight belt. What is your exit weight?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #98 October 12, 2011 Quote Being insulting generally means that you can't justify your position. Wow...you should read your own posts from the last year back than.... insulting people about not having their blockbuster video card, glider licence, and go knows what ever other thing you can come up with. Again...you are talking about the whole thing from a 'less optimal solution' that 'sorta works' we are talking 'better would be' even though you might not agree with the financial aspects and bitch about something else again...My exit weight...who cares...I fly a shadow and can fly that thing in carpet flocks and flocks that travel faster than a fridge filled with lead...dont really need a big suit for that stuff.. Id rather make a shorter solo flight in my small suit, than spend most of the flights with friends strugling and feeding them massive burble/wakeJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #99 October 12, 2011 QuoteBeing insulting generally means that you can't justify your position. Watching a couple people insult each other on the internet over stupid arguments is one level of entertaining. It's a whole new level of entertainment (and irony) when one of them (arguably the most insulting one, but I'll leave that up in the air) decides to whine about insults being thrown. Need to go refill my popcorn...www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #100 October 12, 2011 QuoteNeed to go refill my popcorn... I would prefer that you go get your computer and put together another video ... I've always enjoyed them and it's been to long!"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
