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QuoteQuoteThey got enough stress before the first WS opening.
So they do 1 FFC with you, go to another boogie and never learn wave-off if they have bad luck of not meeting the right people?
If they cant handle the stress of a wave-off, you should take them bowling. Not wingsuit flying.
Do we train fairly experienced skydivers?
They should already know the importance of waving off.
The thing that I do not require them to perform wave-off for the first jump has no connection whether they wave-off in the future jumps or not.
They are usually quite eager to jump more after the fist jump and I'm quite eager to jump them more. Wave-off is a required part of the jump than. I do shadow them just like on the first one and watch their perforemance before opening.
QuoteWe don't need to dumb down the training just to get another person in a WS that maybe shouldn't be there. If they can't handle the wave off, make sure they aren't chewing gum while walking to the plane. That can be over taxing as well.
Do you have to pull on all jumps?
Do you have to pull by yourself on AFF level 1?
Have you pulled on your AFF level 1?
Do you have to make the first jump safe whatever the student would do?
If you need a wave-off the FFC than ask them to do so.
I train so that if the student only gets one jump with me, that they can go to another DZ, with a different plane, different manifest requirements, other wingsuiters who may have been "self trained" and be as well informed/safe as I can train them to be . Some of the training happens before their first jump, some as part of the debrief. But leaving out something as simple as a wave off that should be part of every jump, including a FFC or solo, is not the way to train. Not training it is as negligent as not checking leg straps on a student.
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ifell 0
QuoteWave off.....always...no exceptions.
They should have been doing it on normal skydives before they got in a wingsuit.
I like this, I think before getting in a wingsuit its a good idea to do a few wingsuitless wingsuit jumps just to get the hang of exiting and pulling with both hands in back. The wave off should be a part of every jump even wingless ones.
mccordia 74
The wave-off is also a key signal to show altitude awareness in a student. Warning you (as the coach) that they may not be pulling in time, if the wave-off doesnt happen before. Allowing you to get in view of the student and signal them to do so.
many reasons I can think of to include a wave-off in an FFC.
Not a single valid one to exclude it.
many reasons I can think of to include a wave-off in an FFC.
Not a single valid one to exclude it.
JC
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Can an AFF Level 2 student go jump at another DZ unsupervised?
For an AFF Level 1 jump the amount of new experiences/decisions/sensations/visuals/thought tracks, are a magnitude greater than during a FFC.
Yes there are many things that are different however,
Are the EP handles in the same location as previous jumps? -Yes
Is the main deployment handle in the same location as previous jumps? -Yes
Are canopy controls located in the same location as previous jumps? -Yes
Are landing procedures the same as on previous jumps? -Yes
I would not compare the strain on situational awareness between a jumper who has absolutely no frame of reference and one who has over the previous 200 jumps an established frame of reference and who understands what is necessary in maintaining that effective situational awareness while on a skydive.
For an AFF Level 1 jump the amount of new experiences/decisions/sensations/visuals/thought tracks, are a magnitude greater than during a FFC.
Yes there are many things that are different however,
Are the EP handles in the same location as previous jumps? -Yes
Is the main deployment handle in the same location as previous jumps? -Yes
Are canopy controls located in the same location as previous jumps? -Yes
Are landing procedures the same as on previous jumps? -Yes
I would not compare the strain on situational awareness between a jumper who has absolutely no frame of reference and one who has over the previous 200 jumps an established frame of reference and who understands what is necessary in maintaining that effective situational awareness while on a skydive.
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mccordia 74
Funny to see the guy bitch about flying in the deployment cone on a basejump a few weeks ago (with the basejumpers doing an actual wave-off even) yet dont think its needed on a much more unpredictable FFC
JC
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QuoteFunny to see the guy bitch about flying in the deployment cone on a basejump a few weeks ago (with the basejumpers doing an actual wave-off even) yet dont think its needed on a much more unpredictable FFC
There could be a small difference between pull altitude, couldn't be?
Do you teach BASE-FFC?
yeyo 1
On my FFC I had to do practice pulls, with waveoffs...isnt that the norm?
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MrCat 0
Yep - I had to practice waving off on my practice pulls on my FFC...
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Butters 0
QuoteQuoteFunny to see the guy bitch about flying in the deployment cone on a basejump a few weeks ago (with the basejumpers doing an actual wave-off even) yet dont think its needed on a much more unpredictable FFC
There could be a small difference between pull altitude, couldn't be?
Why does pull altitude matter? In both cases you're flying in the deployment cone when someone could deploy ... I don't care about altitude, I would be more concerned about a student than a planned two way (with wave off).
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch
QuoteQuoteQuoteFunny to see the guy bitch about flying in the deployment cone on a basejump a few weeks ago (with the basejumpers doing an actual wave-off even) yet dont think its needed on a much more unpredictable FFC
There could be a small difference between pull altitude, couldn't be?
Why does pull altitude matter? In both cases you're flying in the deployment cone when someone could deploy ... I don't care about altitude, I would be more concerned about a student than a planned two way (with wave off).
Why is a student required to pull high?
DSE 5
Quote... wave off?
Absolutely.
For many...an FFC with an instructor is the *only* instruction they'll ever get. Care should be taken that the student knows to at least do this minimum thing, same thing we teach in AFF. It's a safety valve for those around them.
nickfrey 0
In the current world of extreme leg wing pressurization how much waving off is going on these days anyway...
How is this even a question? Wave off on every skydive to avoid a mid-air collision. If someone isn't ready to handle tapping their heels together in a wingsuit, they have no business flying one.
Quote... wave off?
YES. Hell yes!
First flights are a lot about building good reflexes through lots and lots of repetition (and, in this case, switching from something done one way for at least 200 jumps, to something done differently).
As soon as the student gets cleared to go jump without a wingsuit instructor on their side (often right after that first flight), they will likely do the exact same thing they were taught on the FFC. They may or may not remember that you "told them afterwards" about what to do when flying with other wingsuiters, but if it's something they've practiced many many times during the ground training for that first flight, as well as in the air, they're a million times more likely to remember it and do it right on subsequent jumps.
And it's a life saving skill - both the student's life, and that of anyone flying around them at break-off.
We don't need to dumb down the training just to get another person in a WS that maybe shouldn't be there. If they can't handle the wave off, make sure they aren't chewing gum while walking to the plane. That can be over taxing as well.
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