mccordia 74 #26 October 12, 2011 Send someone up with only 3 things to tell them....why? Just do a proper full first flight course....nobody is pointing a gun at you...Take the time needed for instruction... JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
omnia 0 #27 October 12, 2011 I think the point is to discuss what the most important things to teach/stress, not that anyone is actually going to limit themselves to only teaching 3 things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #28 October 12, 2011 I think there are no '3 most important things'. A missed exit position, wrong flight paterns, incorrect body position etc etc can all be equally horrific in its conclussion. I see the point in '3 things to say when someone intends to jump without instructution' but anything beyond the appointment to do the FFC is a full course, with every step of the same level of importance...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #29 October 12, 2011 QuoteI think there are no '3 most important things'. A missed exit position, wrong flight paterns, incorrect body position etc etc can all be equally horrific in its conclussion. Disagree. "Don't fucking jump that suit without proper training" would seem to be more important than giving advice about exits or flight path or leg straps to the hypothetical individual in the OP.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #30 October 13, 2011 Damnit...we agree on something... JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #31 October 13, 2011 Quote Quote I think there are no '3 most important things'. A missed exit position, wrong flight paterns, incorrect body position etc etc can all be equally horrific in its conclussion. Disagree. "Don't fucking jump that suit without proper training" would seem to be more important than giving advice about exits or flight path or leg straps to the hypothetical individual in the OP. Holy cow, John....that's at least three things we've agreed on! Hell is indeed freezing over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
decompresion 2 #32 October 15, 2011 1) Darwin awards 2) Don't do this 3) Seriously, don'tThere are no dangerous dives Only dangerous divers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hjumper33 0 #33 October 15, 2011 The real question is what if they had a ffc but it was by someone you don't like or isn't on the right website? I'd just cut the wings off their suit. Does anyone talk about ways to maximize performance and maneuvers anymore on this site? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skwrl 56 #34 October 15, 2011 [Golf clap.]Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #35 October 16, 2011 I'd say just one thing. A quick little speech, delivered in hasty fashion cause I've really gotta split. I'm assuming the wannabe bird already knows I'm one of the guys teaching wingsuit around here. Speech follows: " Hey. Look. I know you wanna go fly that thing. But just because it has become popular and somewhat common doesn't mean its as safe as the casual attitudes about em would lead you to believe. There is a LOT to learn about it. There are a few parts of wingsuit flying where a split seconds' mistake can kill you. I've already lost one friend to such a mistake and he was a veteran bird who knew what he was doing...he just let his guard down for a second. We burned a candle for him later. You do NOT wanna mess with this without experienced backup. I'll be back on the DZ next (state availability) around noon and I can teach you what you need to know and take you up for a proper First Flight Course then. (Corny Arnold accent) If you want to live, come with me. (end Corny Arnold accent) Gimme a number, we'll hook up later and I'll see what I can do to make sure you survive your first few flights, welcome you to our flock all proper-like. Just Don't. Go it. Alone. Whaddya say?" --------------------------------------------------- We have an informal system in place at my home dropzone. When a wingsuit shows up at my DZ, Manifest sends em to me and lets me know theres a new wingsuit on the DZ looking for me. Most often, its a self sufficient if somewhat inexperienced bird with a dozen to a hundred flights under their belt already. A few times its been a clueless newb, and we welcomed em in, taught em, built em a flock or two designed around their skill level and they left happy. Once, I got a faker. Strange but true. Weird guy shows up from, he says, New York. Something about his manner sets off alarm bells. Couldn't place the problem but sketchy. Maybe he's actually from New Jersey. "How many flights you got?" "About 60. Mostly solos." Says he did his first flight course in Florida. Vague. "Last year. Awhile ago. I probably forgot a lot of it." Guy has an old Classic. Ok... Go up with him for a basic 2-way. Guy appears to have next-to-no idea how to put his suit together. Since I'm used to working with new birds uncertain about their gear I helped him with it, took up the role of instructor automatically just because the guy seemed to need it. I walked us through the skydive, and I swear he was the rawest "60-jump wonder" I ever saw. The basic ideas seemed novel to him. Now very suspicious I gave him the benefit of the doubt but sneaked most of the critical parts of an FFC into the excessively elaborate dirt dive. This did NOT include basic body position but did include things like a dramatized demonstration of exit and pull technique. Get out and it is instantly clear: Guy has NO idea what he is doing. None. Nobody taught him. He is attempting to bullshit his way into wingsuit flying by claiming he already has "some" experience. He adopts broken RW posture fighting the suit and immediately starts bobbling around on his centerline, feet up on his butt, falling straight down. Backwards, really. Never seen anything like it. It was actually quite a challenge to stay with this guy, I had to bust out some ninja tricks I don't get to use all that often, wingsuit freefly stuff, reared up on my tail, countered with my armwings and did a static kneelfly stall to stay next to him. Normally I'd use a headdown to stay with a student, but they typically have SOME working wing area and thus some forward movement so its just wingsuit Atmo. This guy had inadvertently discovered how to do an actual wingsuit backslide, and the fallrate was such that headdown wouldn't work unless it was wide with more drag than headdown linear. Since I haven't yet figured out a functioning Wingsuit Daffy that does NOT include 900 RPM rotation, it was reverse kneelfly, all the way. No WAY do you make 60...60! wingsuit flights like that. The worst wingsuit pilots I've ever seen, self-taught, had still at least figured out basic forward movement and suit handling by jump 5, maybe 10. I stuck with him till about 6k, then flopped flat and took off. I didn't want to be anywhere near the guy when he pulled. After landing I conceal most of my attitude to see his without biasing it by my own reaction to the jump. I want to know what the guy is thinking. He is somewhat evasive yet downcast. Appears to understand that he had performed an epic fail and resents it but has no clue how he has failed. He knows he tried to get past the guard and it didn't work but he doesn't understand why. After all, its just like regular skydiving with wings on right? My face probably gives it away. Stoneface still communicates a lot. I ask "How many flights you say you got again?" "Sixty." (I'm thinking shoulda said six, I might've believed THAT.) "I said they were mostly solos." "How many with somebody else?" I don't know, 5 or 6?" "Alright well, whoever taught you left out some basic stuff so you're going to need some lessons if you're going to fly that thing again or with others here ok?" This was not ok. Guy folded up and left. Never saw him again. Whew. Fortunately with that suit and that skill he is extremely unlikely to pose much of a threat to others. He couldn't have stayed with anything to save his life. But if he'd had an R-Bird... or bigger... and suits that scale are now common and cheap... it might have turned out different. Watch out birds, cause That Guy really IS out there, and he is wandering from dropzone to dropzone looking for a good place to splat on your watch. And he is on his way to your place right now. If he hasn't been there already, he will. Final judgement: I was looking at an old RW guy, few hundred jumps, thinks he's better than he is, convinced theres no big deal about wingsuits and resents being told he should seek instruction since with several hundred RW jumps he already knows everything and can handle this easily without some punk 30-something telling him how. I bet he doesn't jump anymore but there are others. Nuff said. -BLive and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #36 October 16, 2011 I actually laughed while reading that because in my short time I've already got two similar stories ... one based on a local, the other based on a traveler. They're out there."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #37 October 17, 2011 QuoteI actually laughed while reading that because in my short time I've already got two similar stories ... one based on a local, the other based on a traveler. They're out there. Yes...they are. Three for us. Two of em' came sporting bright red suits. One of them had a brand new Stealth. None got on the planes, none stuck around long. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #38 October 17, 2011 Go over the hill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
