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About 35 years ago I was a new skydiver, jumping at a tiny DZ on Long Island and dreaming about moving somewhere new. I spent some of my free time at work posting on rec.skydiving - a Usenet group that catered to skydivers. It was a different time back then. To be able to get to Usenet at all means you needed a modem and a computer, both pricey purchases, and you needed to be able to get them to work together, which meant you needed some tech experience. As a result, not many people were on Usenet - just me and a few other tech nerds. And there was hardly any spam! Slowly over the years more people figured it out and started joining. I remember TooyT, Barry Brumitt (wrote the first skydiving FAQ!) Lance Kirwin, Kevin O'Connell, Dave Appel and Jerry Sobieski. I also met Amy on there, which changed the course of my life in a big way. I moved to California in '94 both to escape a bad relationship and to skydive. And of course because I found a great company - Qualcomm - in San Diego. By that point Usenet was becoming a cesspool of Viagra ads and foreign bride offers, and filters had not gotten good enough yet to remove all that, so browsing it was painful. So when Willem announced he was starting DZ.com I felt a big sense of relief. He got in touch with me to see if I wanted to moderate S+T and Incidents, which I said yes to. We started with a complement of about a dozen moderators, some of which I got to know really well. I spent a day in San Diego with Andrea watching whales swim by the gliderport, and I spent a few days with Chuck and Katie at Raeford jumping. Derek once built me a tersh just because I was talking about how I needed one (thanks again Derek) and Remi, Karen and I would meet up whenever we were out at Eloy. Seven of us once got together at Eloy and did the now-infamous moderator jump, angled carefully so no one could see Willem's face on camera. I think Eric and Scott were on that one as well. I also met a bunch of other people from DZ.com in real life - Lisa, Keely, Gary, Winsor - and saw them at Perris and at boogies all the time. It grew my circle of friends from Socal jumpers to jumpers all over the US. And even the world; I met some people from the Irish Parachute Club and made a trip out there to jump with them. I recall a lot of drinking. Over time as moderators changed I took on moderation of a few more forums, but to me the S+T and Incidents forum were always the important ones. I got some sort of award - a "skydivers hall of fame" or something from Parachutist for running that, and got on a few podcasts talking about safety and incidents. One of my proudest moments during that time was reading an incident by a newer jumper flying a too-small canopy. He had read one of my many diatribes on "LEARN FLAT TURNS!" and had tried them once or twice. Then one day he found himself flying downwind by accident, and he tried to turn into the wind at 50 feet. He tried that flat turn he had heard about, but there was something off about it (he explained) because he landed hard, tore his jumpsuit and sprained his ankle. The fact that he was complaining about a sprained ankle after a turn at 50 feet under a heavily loaded canopy made me think that maybe this forum was actually doing some good. I learned a lot, too, mainly from the forums I wasn't moderating - forums like General and Gear and Rigging. Based on what I learned about wingsuiting here, for example, I bought a small wingsuit, taught myself how to fly it, started moving up in wingsuit sizes - then met Jari and became one of the first Birdman wingsuit instructors in the US. And over the years we lost people here too, of course. In some ways this place served as a memorial; you could go back and read what Shannon or Taz had posted while they were still alive, and remember them that way. Over the years traffic has started to fall off as people find more social-media options for skydiving, which is a natural evolution. I'm sorry that it will be disappearing sooner rather than later, but nothing lasts forever. It will be interesting to see what happens to the database; all these incident reports and threads on canopy flight have a lot of value (IMO) and I hope we can save some of it. Thanks to everyone who participated on this site over the decades it has been running, and thanks especially to all the moderators who I've worked with - Wendy, Lisa, Andrea, Chuck, Eric, Remi, Meso and all the others. And of course thanks to Willem for doing all the work to set up and maintain this site. See you out there.

About 35 years ago I was a new skydiver, jumping at a tiny DZ on Long Island and dreaming about moving somewhere new. I spent some of my free time at work posting on rec.skydiving - a Usenet group that catered to skydivers. It was a different time back then. To be able to get to Usenet at all means you needed a modem and a computer, both pricey purchases, and you needed to be able to get them to work together, which meant you needed some tech experience. As a result, not many people were on Usenet - just me and a few other tech nerds. And there was hardly any spam! Slowly over the years more people figured it out and started joining. I remember TooyT, Barry Brumitt (wrote the first skydiving FAQ!) Lance Kirwin, Kevin O'Connell, Dave Appel and Jerry Sobieski. I also met Amy on there, which changed the course of my life in a big way. I moved to California in '94 both to escape a bad relationship and to skydive. And of course because I found a great company - Qualcomm - in San Diego. By that point Usenet was becoming a cesspool of Viagra ads and foreign bride offers, and filters had not gotten good enough yet to remove all that, so browsing it was painful. So when Willem announced he was starting DZ.com I felt a big sense of relief. He got in touch with me to see if I wanted to moderate S+T and Incidents, which I said yes to. We started with a complement of about a dozen moderators, some of which I got to know really well. I spent a day in San Diego with Andrea watching whales swim by the gliderport, and I spent a few days with Chuck and Katie at Raeford jumping. Derek once built me a tersh just because I was talking about how I needed one (thanks again Derek) and Remi, Karen and I would meet up whenever we were out at Eloy. Seven of us once got together at Eloy and did the now-infamous moderator jump, angled carefully so no one could see Willem's face on camera. I think Eric and Scott were on that one as well. I also met a bunch of other people from DZ.com in real life - Lisa, Keely, Gary, Winsor - and saw them at Perris and at boogies all the time. It grew my circle of friends from Socal jumpers to jumpers all over the US. And even the world; I met some people from the Irish Parachute Club and made a trip out there to jump with them. I recall a lot of drinking. Over time as moderators changed I took on moderation of a few more forums, but to me the S+T and Incidents forum were always the important ones. I got some sort of award - a "skydivers hall of fame" or something from Parachutist for running that, and got on a few podcasts talking about safety and incidents. One of my proudest moments during that time was reading an incident by a newer jumper flying a too-small canopy. He had read one of my many diatribes on "LEARN FLAT TURNS!" and had tried them once or twice. Then one day he found himself flying downwind by accident, and he tried to turn into the wind at 50 feet. He tried that flat turn he had heard about, but there was something off about it (he explained) because he landed hard, tore his jumpsuit and sprained his ankle. The fact that he was complaining about a sprained ankle after a turn at 50 feet under a heavily loaded canopy made me think that maybe this forum was actually doing some good. I learned a lot, too, mainly from the forums I wasn't moderating - forums like General and Gear and Rigging. Based on what I learned about wingsuiting here, for example, I bought a small wingsuit, taught myself how to fly it, started moving up in wingsuit sizes - then met Jari and became one of the first Birdman wingsuit instructors in the US. And over the years we lost people here too, of course. In some ways this place served as a memorial; you could go back and read what Shannon or Taz had posted while they were still alive, and remember them that way. Over the years traffic has started to fall off as people find more social-media options for skydiving, which is a natural evolution. I'm sorry that it will be disappearing sooner rather than later, but nothing lasts forever. It will be interesting to see what happens to the database; all these incident reports and threads on canopy flight have a lot of value (IMO) and I hope we can save some of it. Thanks to everyone who participated on this site over the decades it has been running, and thanks especially to all the moderators who I've worked with - Wendy, Lisa, Andrea, Chuck, Eric, Remi, Meso and all the others. And of course thanks to Willem for doing all the work to set up and maintain this site. See you out there.

I wrote this in 2018 when I ran for state representative Gun Legislation Proposals Gun violence in the USA supersedes levels seen in any other civilized country in the world. That is a fact. There are no excuses about not being able to do better. Of course we can. We simply refuse to. America likes their guns, but are now rising up against seeing their children and young people being murdered en masse using the types of weapons that are readily available to the general public. There are no ‘single fixes’ or statements like “The problem is….” as there are a plethora of problems and issues and therefore a plethora of things that need to be addressed to improve the situation. Here is what we are NOT going to do: · We are NOT going to stop gun violence, we are working to reduce it · We are NOT going to take all your guns away, but some of them (and their accessories) must go and at the very least, many people should not have access to them But here is the broad spectrum of issues that need to be addressed: · Licensing of the PERSON, not necessarily the gun · Tracking the sales and movement of guns from manufacture to meltdown · Private sales must also be tracked, all of them · Training, use and care minimums · Storage and transport minimums · Background checks for buyers AND sellers · Waiting periods · Funding the study of gun violence and its causes · Limiting the killing capacity of the weapons we have · Removal of unwanted guns from society, i.e. buyback and disposal programs Managing the data The country already has dozens of databases of people that are used for screening. NICS, TSA, DHS, travel bans, Law Enforcement at city, County and State levels, the FBI, the ATF and so on. The obvious choice for a database of people that are either cleared to own a gun or people that should NOT have a gun is the ATF. They already have background check processes in place for explosives, fireworks, and they already handle the applications and background checks for those that want to own a fully automatic machine gun. (Yes, you can still buy a machine gun). Note that the ATF background checks are not so much about the types of explosives or fireworks that people have, they are about WHO has them, WHERE and HOW they are stored and transported. And that model appears to work. Information is collected and submitted to the ATF database on criminal history of people. Similar to a security clearance, the standards need to be developed using metrics developed by the study of gun violence – which surprisingly we do very little of today. Mental health issues (i.e. 5150 Psych eval) need to be included in the database, however this poses challenges and definitions are currently vague. What data already exists and what data can be used? Does mentally ill invalidate the ownership of gun all the time? i.e. People suffering from depression are mostly stable, law-abiding members of society with no external issues. Much of the personal medical data available is nto made public through privacy laws – as it should be. The Purchase of Firearms and Accessories If we are wondering how guns go from being ‘legal’ to ‘illegal’, then we need to track the sales and movements of them – from the start to the end of their lives. There is no assembly line by Remington or Glock that manufactures guns for the illegal trade. ALL GUNS are legal at the point of manufacture. They simply fall into the wrong hands with little reporting or recording of how that happens. That needs to change. When a consumer wants to buy a gun (private or dealer) of any kind, that transaction needs to be tracked and recorded for future tracking should that weapon end up being used in a crime. Who sold it, who bought it, when and where. Serial numbers, makes and models, and modifications managed through the same database. Law enforcement agencies, from Municipal Police, the County Sheriffs and State agencies already have access to federal databases for crime history and research. This could easily be expanded to include the firearms access database mentioned in the first section. · The buyer and seller agree to a sale of gun, whether that is a dealer or private. The same is recorded on a standard bill of sale form for such purchases, similar to the 4473 form used today. · The seller brings the weapon to the LEO in the area, or ships it to the LEO where the buyer is located, with the forms and details of the sale. · The background checks are performed by the LEO on the gun, the seller, AND the buyer and approves the transaction if there is no reason to NOT approve the sale. · The buyer receives the gun/accessories from the LEO and the transaction is complete. · Criminal penalties apply to those that circumvent the system or bypass it. · All current weapons in circulation are required to be entered into the database with the owner data, a compliance period and then an enforcement period. · Licensed gun dealers, as they exist today, could be given access to the same online database, and could be the ‘escrow’ for a gun sale, private or dealer, as long as the LEO/ATF/agency is performing the background checks and the ‘all clear’ is given. · Gun show sales can still occur, they pickup-and-drive-away model will go away and people will have to comply with the LEO intervention requirement to complete the sale. · The cost of this is funded through a tax on gun sales or a flat fee per transaction, just like we fund drivers licenses through a fee structure. This solves almost all the issues in one fell swoop. We have addressed the background checks, we have addressed the gun show loopholes, we have addressed the waiting periods, and we have addressed the cost of the system. The convicted felon is NOT likely going to go into an LEO to retrieve a gun that they are trying to purchase, and over time, many of the illegal guns out there will be eradicated from the system, suppressing the flow of legal-to-illegal guns and making it harder and harder for criminals to get their hands on guns. I am not under any illusions that this will take time, but law-abiding citizens will NOT be impacted by this any more than they are to get a drivers license. Capacity of weapons This probably needs to be addressed. The gun lobby does have a point that there is not much different between the scary looking military style AR-15 right out of the box and the Ruger Mini-14 which is a semi-automatic ranch and hunting rifle. One looks like a hunting rifle, and one looks like a military weapon. With a 30-round magazine, they are effectively the same weapon. Limit the magazine sizes, and you limit the killing and carnage capacity of the weapon. We restrict vehicles with throttle controls so they cannot reach excessive speeds, and we limit many things in society. Fertilizer is still available but when you buy a bag, but when you buy 500lbs of it, someone is supposed to notice that you might be making a bomb. At the very least, if you are going to allow large capacity magazines, then you must include them in the database of who is buying them and who possesses them. I suggest that 5 round magazines be set as the limit, and an outright ban on any magazine more than 5 for any center fire rifle. No magazine sizes larger than the manufacturer’s specification for handguns. No third party modifications that increase the capacity of the weapon beyond what is dictated for a particular make or model. (Yes we can actually get to make and model specifications where needed) Bump Stocks Banned, and repossessed. They effectively turn a semi-auto into a machine gun, without calling it a machine gun. The ATF already regulates machine guns and should also regulate these under the same regulations. Any modifications that turn a semi-auto into an auto repeater, need to be banned or regulated under the current ATF permit process. Waiting Periods Generally covered by the LEO involvement through the background check process, however more stringent waiting periods could be attached to the types of weapons. i.e. bolt-action hunting rifle could have a shorter waiting period than a handgun. Handguns have a longer waiting period that could and should involve the training cycle below Training Mandatory training for handgun purchases and assault rifles, demonstrating use, cleaning, handling, storage and transportation as well as marksmanship. Ongoing re-certification every few years to maintain. Few people have a problem with trained individuals being allowed to carry in our society. Current classes in Florida for Concealed weapons are 3-4 hours long. That is NOT enough time for someone to be considered competent to carry a deadly weapon or to be able to react in any given situation. I propose training that includes actual self-defense scenarios, decision making processes and actual shooting range training similar to Police practical training before anyone should be expected to be the judge, jury and executioner in any given situation. Sorry but I do not trust the average citizen to pull out a gun and affect a situation where lives are on the line. But I do if they are properly trained for those situations. Buy-Back Programs Given the cost to society of the gun violence that we see, the government should fund the buying and destroying of unwanted weapons in our society. There are probably tens of millions of guns that are sitting in drawers and closets that have outlived their usefulness or purpose, that owners have mostly forgotten that they own. These are some of the guns that fall into the wrong hands by giving them to friends and family, or through break-and-enter theft. Reasonable cash value purchases and offers by LEOs, funded by the tax dollars that already go to cover the massive costs of gun violence, are used to buy back the guns, which MUST be destroyed, not re-sold back into society. The number of guns in the country is part of the problem, reducing the numbers down to the owners that really want to own a gun is important. This will help to reduce the numbers of ‘spontaneous’ violent acts resulting from drug and alcohol induced events, domestic violence, anger-related disputes and accidental shootings within family units. Arming Teachers and increased security at Schools No, we should not arm teachers. Children are in a learning environment. Teachers should not be engaging in gun battles, nor should they be expected to take a bullet for your child or mine. The root cause of the problem with recent mass shootings is not the lack of security, it is the ease of which massive killing power is available to people without ANY checks whatsoever to their ability or stability in owning these weapons. And the gun lobby has fought for and encouraged such access over a few decades now – we are reaping the results of those efforts. Increased security, sure, but who pays for that? I suggest that the gun owners and proponents pay for the increased security costs through taxes on gun or ammunition purchases. Much like pilots pay for the infrastructures that support aviation through fuel taxes.

And why did trump just now, object to the federal funding because it did not have a debt ceiling increase built into it? Why would you need to increase the debt ceiling when you promised to cut the deficit....? Oh wait, it might be because Trump is a con man and people believe the bullshit spouting from his fuckng piehole.

I must admit I had originally misread the title of the other threat and thought it was a feel good thread! Being holiday season and time with friends and family, hopefully everyone can appreciate the people in their lives that they love and care for. It’s been a good year, got to tick over to 50. Went back to the US for the first time in years and got to fly in a helicopter for the first time and jump out of it. Even more touching was that someone I didn’t know put in an enormous amount of effort to make that happen after a mix up with aircraft. Not being a Christian I prefer celebrating the Solstice with the kids and we had an amazing day. It has the bonus of never causing conflict with my ex and so today I have the gift of peace and quiet and the home alone for a couple of days! Love my son and his girlfriend, but having them out the house for a couple of days is a good holiday :)

It’s always interesting to see the perspectives of people who have real life experience, versus watching tv.

Well, they can under the NFA. So, if we agree the NFA is necessary for those weapons, why not an "NFA" for other weapons? That is the battle cry, but was not the original premise. First, it wasn't until recently the 20th century that someone tied the the 2A to the "goverment that turned tyrannical." and told people that Jefferson said it. What Jefferson was speaking about was the Public School Act. " . . . perverted it into tyranny; and it is believed that the most effectual means of preventing this would be, to illuminate, as far as practicable, the minds of the people at large . . ." https://www.monticello.org/research-education/thomas-jefferson-encyclopedia/bill-more-general-diffusion-knowledge/ EDIT: Found it. https://www.cnn.com/2013/01/11/opinion/jefferson-fake-gun-quotation/index.html

Demographics cultures are different BECAUSE of effective gun laws.

Thank you for that. Owner, Seattle Sky Sports, so that's not Cossey's, that belongs to the dropzone, most likely one of the student reserves. I would've guessed that repack cycles in that era would've been 90 days, but someone posted something here recently that indicated it might be 60 days. So it's either in date or just out of date, meaning it was currently in service.

Edwards seems unaware that the copycat hijackings also produced pressure bumps when the hijackers jumped.

I have many close friends and family who are completely anti gun. I have tried to take them shooting or even dry practice just to famierize them with the functioning of common guns ( G19 and AR15) they wanted nothing to do with it and that’s completely cool. One of my best friends who i was a motorcycle officer with for years was murdered by a crazy, drunk solider years ago in GA on a traffic stop. That still didn’t change my stance on magazine capacity and assault weapons bans. I appreciate everyone’s views and opinions.

I like a lot of it. I have no problem requiring training to get a concealed carry permit but strongly disagree with a training requirement for any purchase of a gun. I’m all for background checks as long as they are able to be carried out quickly. I’m strongly against any type of gun registry. Big fan of waiting period ( 1 week) I have worked many domestic violence murders that this may have helped. Strongly against magazine restrictions or assault weapons ban of any type. I’m from SC so it’s a pretty good bet most of the people i pulled over had guns on them or in thier vehicle. It didn’t really worry me much. When someone told me they had a gun on a traffic stop i usually said the same thing you leave yours where it is i’ll leave mine where it is. As far as schools private schools can do what they want. Public schools should have a highly trained in shape officer 1 per 300 kids. Strongly against teachers carrying guns. I would rather have more uniformed officers. Meat eaters not retired on duty slugs.

Oh, you won't be rid of me that easily. Bill, thank you kindly for all of the knowledge and wisdom you've shared here, and, too often in my case, extreme forbearance. Truly, it is the irony of my life that someone who has such a difficult time following simple rules would end up being a DZO in charge of making others follow simple rules, but there it is. I think now is the time to say goodbye to so many of you, along with a huge thank you for all of the interesting conversations, thoughts and mostly, the opportunities to question my own held views. That is truly a valuable gift and one worth acknowledging on this, the eve before the day of gift giving. If anything I've had to say here had any more than comedic value to anyone, be assured that in exchange I most certainly received the better end of the trade. I wish everyone here without exception the happiest of holidays and that safety and good fortune are your rewards to come. Thanks for the good times, Joe

NB6 is a claim by Cossey, a claim is not a fact where I come from... That claim is contradicted by the packing card and Hayden... you know evidence. Since we have exactly ZERO corroboration for Cossey's claim it is worthless. I don't have to invent anything. You must have some bias here because you aren't being rational about this issue.

Exactly. With Freedom comes responsibility.

It's more paranoid than selfish, but to some degree it is selfish IMO. It's also a HUGE responsibility, one that's often forgotten or ignored.

Turtle, instead of assuming the worst of everyone who isn't just like you, why don't you ascribe to them the same humanity that you assume in the people that you like? I'm assuming that the people you hang with are capable of being wrong, of doing goat-fuck stupid things sometimes, and even of being mean sometimes. Don't consider it to be the exception for people you agree with, and the rule for people you disagree with (and the government) Wendy P.

LIKE - High. School. Children.

That they accidentally restrict civil liberties on an industrial scale when they try to rewrite some zoning laws? Pretty low, honestly.

I only have two requests for when I die: 1) I want my remains scattered around Disneyland, and 2) I don't want to be cremated.

Cathy: "I've got a wicked sore throat." Anna: "Whenever I have a sore throat, I give my husband a wonderful blow job and I'm cured straight away." Cathy: "Really?" Anna: "Try it and you'll see that I'm right." The next day they meet again. Anna: "So, did my advice work?" Cathy: "It worked! And your husband couldn't believe it was your idea!"

Unidentified drones over Western Pennsylvania!!!!

PeaceLoveAndForeverBlueSkies to us all!! PatheticLoser PL -777 DannyDan