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Regardless of party, anyone who dehumanizes political opponents is extremely dangerous. This is the mindset that fuels shootings, assassinations and wars (eventually).

Agreed. There's no excuse for assassination.

Thank you. Did you read this passage: "You will never live in a society when you have an armed citizenry and you won't have a single gun death. That is nonsense. It's drivel. But I am, I, I — I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights" He was a radical evangelical Christian who believed that killing to protect God given rights as he saw them was a fair trade. No mention of needing the second to defend against rape, lynchings, pedophilia, etc. And for school shootings his plan was more guns in schools. If you want to think he was the right man for the times have at it.

I saw an interesting post yesterday about Charlie and social media algorithms. Someone was talking to their friend about him and she really liked Charlie and couldn’t understand why the friend hated him. During the discussion it came out that the one who liked him and only ever had good positive videos and interviews in her feed over the years, videos the person who didn’t like him had never seen. Likewise the person who liked him was horrified when she saw the other side of Charlie. It goes to show what an echo chamber social media is.

UK fires its Ambassador to the USA on account of his interactions with Epstein. https://apnews.com/article/uk-mandelson-epstein-fc3f953112ac10108e1109920fd9dca0 In the USA we call such people "Mr. President".

NO, Martin D18... I don't really discuss guitar stuff here because it is a Cooper forum but the second one is now public... I found Neil Young's first guitar from high school, an orange 6120 Gretsch he sold in 1965 to go acoustic... He regretted it and always wanted it back.. he replaced it in Buffalo Springfield with another orange Gretsch,,, Randy gave him my number and he called me, I gave him all the details and proof, he obtained it within hours,,, He is playing Mr Soul on it for his current tour.. FB Video.. https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1EGihHxWw9/

Within two years Brazil dealt with the crime, the trial and the sentencing of its president for treason. The former president was convicted of trying to cling to power after losing the 2022 election and has been sentenced to 27 years in the slammer.Jair Bolsonaro was a close buddy of the US King Donald Trump.Trump put tariffs on Brazil for proceeding with this trial. On the other hand the US and its weakling president Biden did nothing for four years when King Trump spearheaded an insurrection. Now since Trump has been crowned again he has bullied the courts into empowering him even more. He has used his royal position to earn over $4.2 billion dollars in his first year. King Trump has had his royal clerks re-write history about the insurrection. Every day the King sees new CEOs of giant corporations who pay bribes in order to curry favours. Soon the Kings new B747, another gift/bribe, completely adorned in gold will take flight. Ready to scour the globe for new bribes.

Well actually there is a GOP action plan to protect kids in America. The MAHA plan for healthier kids includes 128 ideas, but few details "The Make America Healthy Again Commission, led by Kennedy, identified four potential drivers behind rising rates of chronic disease among children, including poor diet, chemical exposure, lack of physical activity and chronic stress, as well as "overmedicalization" – which the commission describes as "a concerning trend of overprescribing medications to children." Well yes it is because for MAGA, Trump, Christian nationalists the silence over the largest killer of American children is absolute. For third straight year, firearms killed more children and teens, ages 1 to 17, than any other cause including car crashes and cancer The hypocrisy of conservatives is absolute.

Now there’s a mantra. So your silence after the targeting of Democratic people in Minnesota, the kidnapping attempt on Gretchen Whitmer in Wisconsin, are also violence? Wendy P.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. The following is a copy and paste job, not my work.... Charlie Kirk said: “It was huge mistake to pass the Civil Rights Act back in 1964.” That is his exact quote. In complete context. Charlie Kirk said: “Jewish money is ruining American culture.” That is his exact quote. In complete context. Charlie Kirk also said: “Gay people are destructive, and they should be put to death.” Yes, that is his exact word-for-word quote. In complete context. On national television. Charlie Kirk also stated, one hour after a tragic school shooting in Lewistown that left 26 dead: “I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights.” Re-read that sentence, above. Yes, that is his exact word-for-word quote. In complete context. Charlie Kirk also stated this: “We have to tell our babies to stop crying.” Yes, that is his exact word-for-word quote. In complete context. He was discussing the starvation of those in Gaza. Yes, that is his exact word-for-word quote. In complete context. Charlie Kirk also stated this: "I can't stand the word empathy. I think empathy is a made up New Age term that does a lot of damage.” Yes, that is his exact word-for-word quote. In complete context. Murder for political reasons is ALWAYS wrong. Always. My heart sincerely goes out to his wife, and his two children. They did not deserve any of this. They are innocent.

Given that Trump is literally banning words, and banning museums from representing history - your ire is misplaced. He may well have been the best of some group you are picturing. He was not the best of Americans. The best of Americans work to unite the country and prevent violence, not divide the country and foment violence.

The man himself stated publicly and on the record that some people being assassinated by firearms was a fair trade for second amendment gun rights that could be used to defend the will of God. While I continue to wish these gun deaths weren't a part of our daily life, the degree to which I am horrified by this assassination is a whole lot less than I am for the types of gun deaths he thought were the fair trade.

All Americans should horrified by this assassination.

I don’t really understand why you feel you have to point out that you don’t think the motive of a murderer was actually a justification for murder. Do you often find yourself agreeing with criminal murderers that their victims needed killing?

There is this obsession with "so called" Cooper suspects to be extraordinary people,, a bad ass special ops,, a metallurgist who worked on the Manhattan project, an assassin, CIA spy or mercenary etc...... Cooper was a forgettable loner, above average intelligence but a bitter chronic underachiever whose grudge was to accomplish something substantial in life... Something nobody else had done based on his ability after lifelong rejection from a corrupt system that rewards undeserving people.... Cooper was not unique or special or remarkable in life...

The very idea that he, Turning Point USA and the vile "christian" teachings his wife in her church spread. Will be lionized in MAGA Christian fascist nationalism is sick. "Black women do not have brain processing power to be taken seriously. You have to go steal a white person's slot." is but one of his direct quotes from his "debates". A podcast where he directly throws Michelle Obama in that group. Kirk played a dance between different audiences depending on how much vileness is needed to grow the Turning point $100 million valuation upwards. To net his business the most cash, Erika Kirk's church the most cash. Social media is not a "cancer". Business like Turning Point USA, FOX news, that profit off vile hate are the cancer. Why the fuck is CNN, NBC, ABC, etc. not replaying podcast videos like the one quoted above to show who Kirk really was? Start the debate with facts not whitewashing b.s.

To his credit base will often apologise or change his views when presented with facts.

An old lady goes to the doctor and says: "Doc, I can’t stop farting. They’re silent with no smell, but I’ve let out 20 in the past 5 minutes sitting here"/ The doc gives her some pills and tells her to come back next week. The next week the old lady comes back and says "Doc, I took the pills, the farts are still silent but now they stink!" The doc says "Great! We’ve cleared up your sinuses, now let’s work on your hearing!"

My Brazilian friends have said that US politics is for beginners.

Wrong Timothy McVeigh single handily puts the killed and injured by the right on top by a factor of ten.

It's not violent leftists or rightists it's that we are all violent animals who are barely under control on our good days. That nature is easily combined with our other true natures of stupidity, gullibility, tribalism, and irritability. Stir or shake, it doesn't matter, and out comes another homicide.

Maybe there's a lesson there.

Now do the body count on each side.

Facebook is now being filled up with Charlie Kirk quotations. And they don't flatter him at all. Especially his views on empathy, which apparently is a made up word. I feel empathy for his wife and children, is that enough or does it mean I'm a left wing radical terrorist?

And their work is complete. Yet another person who could engage in dialog now sees others only as either like minded or enemies. Wendy P.

Melissa Hortman says you're full of shit. Because we all know there's no such thing as being not MAGA enough. On this forum? Wake me up when any Democrat Senators start laughing about Kirk's murder in public, as happened with at least one prominent Republican after the Minnesota killings. Anyway as said to Jay have you no respect for his loved ones in this difficult time? Have you no self respect? This is the time for thoughts and prayers to his family, not cheap and cynical political point scoring. For shame, sir!

Charlie Kirk put himself center stage in the effort to overthrow a democratically elected government in favour of a would be tyrant, and why would anyone think he wasn't ready to do it again? According to Kirk, his own murder is not just the cost of doing business with the second amendment, it's the reason the second amendment was written.

Sure there is, according to future victims, but only if as a price paid for the protection of god given rights that curtail other rights belonging to unbelievers.

That transcript outlines what the NRA has used as its arguments for the last several decades. Prior to today I'd never heard of Charlie Kirk and I feel very sorry for his two innocent young children. Charlie Kirk was a political fraud. He sold "open dialogue" and open debate as his come on for his political activism. For his podcasts and his personal political business. But as a Christian nationalist, racist, misogynist, influence peddler, conspiracy peddler and anti-science MAGA trafficker. He did everything possible to steal the rights and freedoms of others. To entrench his rights and that of conservative Christians over all other Americans. The election was stolen,the deep state of enemy liberals must be destroyed, Blacks are inherently violent people, if you're not for Christ the government should not be for you and on and on. This is what he peddled in his podcasts, his interviews and this new movie business. He sowed division and hate. He was no Christian, no example of a good citizen, he fed hate and race baiting. Fuck him. "Its not the guns" is mostly right. Political assassinations in the US arises because of the actions of redistricting. Of labelling the other party, the other group, race, etc. as the enemy. Of the use of the department of justice to attack your enemies. They arise because groups of religious and political activists are using political power to steal rights and freedoms from others who are not a part of their political group. This is not the first assassination and until the winner take all strategy ends they will become more common. For those that incite the violence, fuck them too.

I greive for the loss of life, but not for him as an individual / activist. I was called a Republican today because I wanted him to survive. If wanting him to survive makes me a republican...then so be it.

I genuinely believe the US would be a less violent place with more boobies on TV. Countries that don’t allow boobies always seem to be full of angry violent men.

I see him as creating chaos, stepping back and watching people gravitate to the chaos while he rubs his hands in delight.

Really, for a good 100 years or so until the late 1980’s and early 1990’s this was fairly true of the US. The “divide and conquer” strategy, especially when it’s US were dividing, is not good for a country that wants to adapt to the world. And the world isn’t going to adapt to it for real long Wendy P.

Nordic countries: The political parties respect each other and trust between them and the government is a given. The people trust the government. America. The political parties are at war and one party the MAGA-republican party teaches that the government is evil.That it can't be trusted and tries to use the justice system against its citizens. The parties use the tax system to create winners and losers.

Several politicians in Utah have stood tall subsequent to the Kirk shooting by calling for calm. Furthermore they are republicans. "Gov. Spencer Cox of Utah built a political brand as the Republican antidote for an age of anger, imploring a divided United States to “disagree better” through civil discussions and bridge-building service projects....Mr. Cox walked in front of the television cameras to make his highest-profile plea to date against the rising tide of political violence that had just crashed into his backyard.... several leaders in Utah echoed Mr. Cox’s appeal to tamp down the overheated political rhetoric, reflecting the state’s self-image as a bastion of a kinder, gentler conservatism. Former Gov. Gary Herbert, whom Mr. Cox served as lieutenant governor, said he hoped the moment would serve as a “wake-up call.” “We should not get so angry that we feel like we have to win the argument or kill them,” said Mr. Herbert, who also made compromise a key tenet of his term and now runs an institute at Utah Valley University — the same college where Mr. Kirk was killed — that teaches young people about moral character in politics.' Compare this with FOX a broadcaster who cheered for hours when a CNBC commentator was fired for his truthful comments about Kirk's character and political position. FOX went on:“They are at war with us, whether we want to accept it or not,” Jesse Watters, the right-wing Fox News commentator, said on his broadcast on Wednesday. He added that “we are going to avenge Charlie’s death in the way that Charlie wanted to be avenged.” Echoing Trump's calls for vengeance and retribution for the killing. Not only are they moderating voices but undoubtedly Christian as well this being Utah after all. It will take more than Mr Cox to restore calm but perhaps hope is out there.

In fairness I have not yet seen a single fact that suggests the shooter was right of center. And it seems quite unlikely that will turn out to be the case.

Kirk advocated for public, televised executions, which he said “children should be required to watch,” that "at a certain age, it's an initiation" and referred to the practice as "holy." Nice guy.

Well, that just means it’s mental illness, and you can’t do anything about mental illness. If it’s a left-leaning person then it’s political. Wendy P.

Yet other voices of moderation. “We may disagree on policy, but we are united in our belief in the value of life, civil discourse and mutual respect,” wrote Kenneth Naylor, the chairman of the young Republicans group in Rhode Island. “Let us honor Charlie’s memory by working together to create a safer and more compassionate political culture.” "sports commentators like Pat McAfee,...Mr. McAfee went on to say, “I hope that to our entire society, like, ‘Yo, you can disagree with people, you can disagree with people, and you don’t have to hate them or have disdain for them forever.”... On Instagram, Cenk Uygur, a well-known progressive activist, echoed that sentiment, calling on partisans to “stop spreading hatred and let’s start spreading empathy.” Yet Trump and his inner circle keep spreading the gasoline. The aforementioned voices are the leaders not the demonizing, enemy labelling activists and politicians.

The repercussions are bound to be coming soon. The extreme right has always been violent. now we have.....Laura Loomer warned that “More people will be murdered if the Left isn’t crushed with the power of the state,” Open season starts now.

Maybe someone can explain why I should care about the shooting death of a gun advocate who said a few gun deaths are "worth it" and "I can't stand the word empathy, actually. I think empathy is a made-up, new age term that — it does a lot of damage."

Agree everything he and his wife espoused was White Christian nationalism . Turning Point was all about his facade of Christianity to legitimize the worst of MAGA politics. Erika Kirk was an active participant in Turning Point USA, She gave introductions for her husband, gave personal speeches at Turning Point events, had her own personal podcasts and was active politically in the MAGA movement.

Charlie Kirk was one of the best of us.

I could have sworn murdering civilians of another nation NOT at war with the attacker was considered a full out war crime. Good to see AmeriKKKa is in with the most violent, murdering, and hated nations on the planet. Impressive accomplishment from the Pedo POTUS. Might be the fast decimation of a nation in history.

Exactly, but add mean spirited chaos. If the chaos can cause suffering all the better.

Even by the standards of a guy who usually says 3 insane things before breakfast, that is fucking INSANE.

Really? Is this Trumpish? “you don't know shit from a good grade of peanut butter.” Because I didn’t say that, Bigun did. What about this? “Now just piss the fuck off”? Because I didn’t say that, Bigun did. And that’s despite the fact that he’s wrong. Despite the fact that he knows he’s wrong. And he’s still behaving like that. So who should you be talking to about pissing contests?

Benzedrine has been confirmed.

As time goes on, more and more republicans are finding they can't stomach some part of Trump's growing anti-American program. Whether it's calling veterans "suckers" and "losers" and cancelling their VA care, or calling for the "termination" of the "phony" Constitution, or supporting pedophiles, eventually some of the more principled republicans make a break with the Trump cult and come back to reality. The latest big name to do this is Owen Shroyer, one of the lackeys on the various Alex Jones shows. Shroyer was as pro-Trump as they came. He called Harris a "blackie" during one show with Jones, he was arrested for ringleading one of the Jan 6th attacks on police, and was one of the people claiming that Sandy Hook was a hoax with crisis actors. But finally it got too much for Shroyer and he walked out of the Alex Jones machine. Jones tried to downplay it, saying that Shroyer had to leave for a "family medical emergency." But Shroyer quickly livestreamed a response, saying "There was no family emergency. I walked off the show." "Alex had been coming into my show [War Room], and talking about how I’m negative and calling me a pessimist, and all this other stuff, which is fine. He says I’m too negative, he says I’m a pessimist, whatever, I’m too anti-Trump . . . maybe he’s right.” Shroyer wanted to stay and at first he thought that Jones would be amenable to a more fact-based approach without Jones looking over his shoulder constantly to protect Trump. "I was wrong," he said. "It happened, and I just said I’m out.” There was no mention of what specifically was the straw that broke the camel's back, but since Shroyer had been mentioning Trump's protection of the Epstein list frequently, that was a likely reason. His livestream drove Jones into an unhinged rant, saying "You couched each statement—perfectly thought out and looking down at your notes—to be able to lie about us and try to hurt this organization for your benefit so you can be a hero. You are a snake. You are a rat. You are a fraud. You are a backstabber. You are a hand biter. You are a disgrace.” To be called all those things by Alex Jones is a high compliment indeed.