DangerousDan

Jerry - I did not offer any disrespect. I simply said you were never in special forces, you were in the military. People that served in any branch have my respect no matter what their capacity. I thank you for your service. There is nothing egotystical here, and I appreciate your response. Like a doctor does, when you touch on an area and get a large response, or an indication of pain, you are probably at least close to where the problem is. THIS matter is important to the story. Pull or No Pull. That is the question. A no pull says the FBI was right and there is a body out there somewhere. A pull of any kind means that he made it out of there in some fashion, with or without help, stashing the rig or not, same night or not, doesnt matter. I had to find a way of probing the sensativity of the subject, so that I could determine the relative importance of the subject. Therefore, I appreciate most your last reply, as it told me the most, and the most light on why things are the way they are. I have to be gone from this thread now for a while, but I thank each and every one of you for your candid responses and your professional interaction. Jerry, You are in fact a vet and a fine American and I proudly stand up next to you and defend her still today. Because there aint no doubt we (all) love this land. God bless the USA.

Farflung - You need to be in something creative - you got talent! But hey its more simple than that. If there are seasoned skydivers on here that hold an opinion that the jumper (This is a DB Cooper thread I thought) left the 727 as a no pull/couldnt pull/total mal/etc. Then I would like to talk to them. Simple. I don't think this was the case, I am just looking for someone who can reasonably "speculate" that they (being entitled to a guess like anyone) do, and that this is their guess as to what happened. The varied opinions and guesses are all part of the story. Isnt it ironic that I cant find an experienced jumper that leans towards this take - that this guy exited and (for whatever reason) never got anything out? Maybe the survey was not woefully flawed after all. You are a fine citizen, a respected jumper, and I appreciate your writing. Sincerely, Dan

I didnt put words in your mouth. I asked a simple question. It is listed below. You are entitled to a best guess. Here is teh Question that I asked you: If you were to write these last two would it look like this? From Orange1: 9) He exited. He never pulled anything. 10) Nothing ever came out. How about just a Yes or No? Don't be mad. You have talent and experience. Tell me what you think. Its all good!

I think he got a good chute Dan. Jerry doesnt. He is retired Special Forces. ___________________________________________ Jerry is not retired special forces. Jerry was in the military.

377 - Im just looking for ONE person to be included in the documentary that will go on camera and make a best guess that they feel like this jumper exited and never got the container open. I would be willing to go on camera and say that I thought that Amelia ran out of gas and ditched in the ocean. I cant prove it but in my opinion, thats probably what happened. The ocean is a big place. Im still looking for ONE person that wants to claim their opinion that this body (the hijacker) and his unopened container are lying out there within 200 miles or Portland, OR. Is it you that can say that?

9) He exited somewhere in some fashion. He pulled. 10) "Something" came out. From Orage1: "The second part of 9, and 10 are just unknown. You cannot state with any certainty that they either happened or did not happen." The 10 listed are "My" conclusions. Each person is entitled to his own conclusions. Jo has concluded that Duwayne did it. She is entitled to that opinion. I wrote 9) and 10) with the limited amount of information that is present, my experience as an airline pilot and a veteran skydiver, and limited practical experience regarding human behavior I made my best guess. Please submit 9) and 10) in your own words. as your "best guess" based on what your opinion is. You are entitled to one. If you were to write these last two would it look like this? From Orange1: 9) He exited. He never pulled anything. 10) Nothing ever came out.

Quote from 377: "We believe with reasonable certainty that Cooper jumped a surplus Navy bailout rig with a stock military round canopy. That's a good rig for the jump. It can take a high speed opening." The "rig" was by definition an "emergency" rig. It was designed to be used when there are no other options. I believe that the jumper "intended" to obtain two sport rigs that were complete units, i.e. a sport back as a main and a chest mounted reserve. When he surveyed the goods presented and it was past time to go, he knew he didnt get what he wanted, so he had to take second best. The emergency rig with no second chute (chest mounted)would have been my second choice as well. This emergency rig was used by thousands around the world in both military and civilian. I wore it one time just like it in a T-6 doing acro. We didnt use them (the rig) but we wore them because it was required for acro flight. My conclusions: 1) The hijacking occurred 2) The man made took efforts to hide his identity 3) His real last name was not Cooper. 4) He selected the best rig from the lot available. 5) His level of clothing/gloves/goggles is unknown 6) He jumped with the money. 7) The type of exit (quick pull, delay, face fwd, face aft, tumble, spin) is unknown. 8) He obviously went to a lot of trouble to get to this point in his caper. 9) He exited somewhere in some fashion. He pulled. 10) "Something" came out. If you have a legitimate disagreement with any of these, I encourage you to openly bring out your disagreement and state why you disagree. I value the opinions of each and every individual and I believe that this is the true "on topic" value of the forum. Thank you. Dan Gryder.

There are THOUSANDS of similar stories from aircrew... bailout rigs work exceedingly well even for those who were tumbling. We learned from those stories.. and designed training for aircrew that every class that went thru Survival Training was taught.

my point - any experienced jumper of that era would have no trouble with the reserve container sized bundle, IF, it was properly affixed and still intact after the exit. Matt FWIW - I interviewed a B-17 Commander from WWII a few years ago. His plane took a hit and became uncontrollable. He had never jumped and was given minimal training regarding a jump other than "get out the door, any door, and pull this thing..." He says he has no idea how fast the B-17 was going when he left it, but it was missing part of a wing and was pretty nose down and there was no one at the controls. He said had no concept of anything regarding parachuting, that was his one and only jump ever. He thinks he pulled immidiately out the door and has no idea his body position relative to earth, but even in 1944 he got a good canopy at a very high exit speed and rode it all the way to where he landed in a tree and cut himself out, only to be captured and spend months in a Russian prison camp eating pigeon leftovers to stay alive. A reserve is designed to work. Speed, body position, whtever. Pull. It works. Now find me an experienced jumper that says that the 727 suspect was a no pull/couldnt pull/total mal. off the very stable stairway of a 727 and that the guy was DOI and let him have his say. Thank you. Dan Gryder

"What you want is someone to go on camera and say that your candidate is Cooper and lived." Jerry, with all due respect, you obviously did not read and understand what I wrote. I know you are hurt about this. Read it again. Slow. I am looking for an experienced jumper to go on camera and say that they think whoever it was DID NOT get a good canopy and DID NOT live, and say why. Simple. No endorsing. No guessing WHO it was. Here is what I said: " No "proof" will be required. Just the statement that you are a very experienced jumper and that your opinion is that there is a body and a rig still laying out there and why you think that. " This has nothing to do with who anybody thinks it was. I just would like to find a reputable experienced jumper that firmly believes that the scenario resulted in a no pull/couldnt pull/total mal. etc and that they believe that the body and original rig are still laying out there somewhere, and why. So far I cant find anyone that thinks that this guy went to this much trouble and was unable to get SOMETHING out. Can you find me one? Just one? Thank you. Dan Gryder

I am looking for the name/contact info for the person that found the 727 Airstair Placard. Is he still alive? Any help? Also. I am soliciting any experienced skydiver (from the sport before the days of throw out pilot chutes) That would be willing to go on camera and be interviewed with real name and experience level and state that they feel that in their opinion, the jumper in this case was likely a no pull (disorientation, G force, etc) or a total Mal, or a hard pull that was never successful, or any other combination of theory that leads to a terminal impact with the pilot chute still stowed. No "proof" will be required. Just the statement that you are a very experienced jumper and that your opinion is that there is a body and a rig still laying out there, they are still attached, and why you think that. No one is going to attack your background, you are entitled to an opinion and if there is an experienced jumper out there that holds this opinion, we would like to schedule an interview. Thank you. Dan Gryder

We may have met up there, or at Whiteside...! We (Liberty Parachute Team) were opening the show from Duggy, that's my helmet cam footage I linked. If you were at Whiteside, we probably did meet, but Liberty Parachute team wasnt there, but a few guys from the team stopped up there just out of interest. Whiteside is my home town, the New Years day jumps I used to make were up there out of a C-182in the old days, RRVS club plane. I also get out to Witchita now and then and Chuck is a friend of mine out there. Last year he assembled a group of us to celebrate the anniversary of the making of Gypsy Moths, which was filmed at Benton, KS. I got a jump out of a Stearman that day by riding in the front seat and having the pilot do a parabolic arch and push really hard at the top, I launched out and flew relative to the aircraft for a few seconds above it. Way cool! We probably know each other from Muskogee or WFFC. Dan

Or this[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sV1CzvZHlM The point is, the rig this Hijacker selected was an Emergency rig. He had an emergency. He needed to exit with the cash. The harness, container, and canopy were designed to be used under the worst of conditions to save a life. Stable or not, turning spinning, even on your back, it aint gonna be pretty, but its gonna work. It was the strongest canopy, with the least drive, and nicest ride. His name wasnt Cooper, and his body aint out there.

YUP! @2;10 in and more at the end...three 3's in formation! 3 is nice, summer of 2010 I organized 30 DC-3's, I flew as lead ship of the mass arrival into OSH. Tons of you tube video on it and some cool air to air footage. It was like an in flight ocean of DC-3's flying off me. Also, the man jumped and got a good canopy. It worked. He lived. Thank you. Dan Gryder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbyG4Zr0qsQ [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbyG4Zr0qsQ

Anybody wanna jump this?

I seriously don't think the attached bag would cause a no-pull situation...the loot may very well have separated upon opening, but I've always held that belief. Again...probably why none ever went back through the treasury. See...all this productive discussion generated because of a poll. Maybe the purpose of the poll wasnt to "prove" anything. Did it make you think outside the box? There is enough talent and knowledge located on this forum to solve this mystery. There is some real talent on here. This is the closest youve been so far. Conclusions: 1) the hijacker was concerned and conscious about his identity and took measures to conceal it. His last name was not Cooper. 2) He donned the correct rig with ease. 3) He exited with the money. 4) Regardless when he pulled, he pulled and got a good canopy. 5) The earth was below. 6) He landed 7) regardless what he did with his rig, he made it back to civilization 8) There is no body out there to find. If you are an experienced skydiver and have an alternate theory, I would like to hear it. Thank you.

I found the last name question interesting. I don't think the skyjacker used his real name. But I may have a bias here. After all of the reading and speculation I have done about DBC, I have this "master criminal" profile of him in my head. This "master criminal" would never use his real name. But at the end of the day, what if he wasn't the brilliant master criminal that so many of us think he was. What if he was just dumbass enough to use his real name? _______________________________________ Great comment - No one asked you to state that you were positive about what you thot, its just a opinion! Thats what the forum is "supposed" to be for, sharing ideas and making people think. You made me think. The idea that he might have been dumb enough to use his last name has crossed everyones mind. But then again the other signs are there that say he wore sunglasses, some makeup, and asked for the note back indicates that he was worried about somebody finding out who he was later. If he went to those lengths for identity protection, then identity was paramount to him, and would be for a caper like this. I think if your last name is Cooper, youre automatically excused from candidacy. Not even the masses from the Marla circle can support the notion, that he used his REAL last name, which speaks volumes to me. Thank you.

Honest! I am not your sharpest stick in the shed. There are lots on here far wiser and with more experience than me. I simply stated my opinion, and I am entitled to one. I used a poll to gather a rough idea of whether the masses thought that a hijacking had occuured at all (most thought id did on that night) I am not afraid to state that my opinion (and I believe that of 377) is that 1) he jumped 2) he got a good canopy. No more. No less. If you have an opinion or scenario that is other than this premise, now would be a GREAT time to hear it. We don't need no stinkin' poll! Just tell me that YOU don't agree with the results of the poll, or 1) or 2) above and why and I will respect you in the morning. Thank you!

He picked a great rig, he had a nice ride. Great rig? Yes, Exactly what you and I would choose Dan. Nice ride? Yes, all the way to earth contact, ------------------------------------------- There you go again reading too much into what I said. I said he picked a great rig. I said he had a nice ride. ROD, type landing not mentioned. Probably stung but he had a nice ride. Obviously a strong affinity to polls and czecks here, how about we do it the other way? Lets just say that the poll indicated a strong affinity to a scenario where the jumper obtained a good canopy, and was alive for the landing. IF the poll is grossly skewed, there should be dozens willing to comment and state their opinion *(whatever it is) to the contrary. Therefore: OPINIONS WANTED: If you have an opinion that leans towards this jumper being a no pull/couldnt pull/total malfunction/streamer'd in (i.e. DEAD ON IMPACT) then please post your opinion as a post so everyone can see your opinion of what your BEST GUESS is. No hard evidence required (there is none), just what do you think? Thank you. Dan

"How many of Marla’s over 500 friends are skydivers? What would their predisposition be towards Cooper’s survivability if they believe Marla who said her uncle, who survived, did the crime?" Good point. I wasnt interested in whether her friends thot it was survivable, I was wanting to know if even her friends thought it was likely that a skyjacker would use his own last name. They had a chance to say that they thought that he would, but none did. See Question 3. It indicates that the voters voted honestly what they really thought. No more, no less. The data is not skewed in any of the ten qeustions. If there was anybody want to skew the results, surely Marlas friends woulod have had reason to, but did not. Regardless who "your guy" is - I believe that there is a general concensus that 1) there was a hijacking 2) Whover it was donned a rig 3) he jumped 4) he was able to pull the ripcord sufficiently that a canopy came out 5) he did not auger in, or streamer in. and finally, 6) His last name was not Cooper. No more, no less. The audience is not 5 year olds. The audience is sufficiently aware and interested and knoledgeable to be capable of voting. He picked a great rig, he had a nice ride. The earth was there as he thought it would be. Thank you.

Jerry and I disagree as to whether Cooper augered in or landed under a good canopy, but we agrree that the rig is out there somewhere under either scenario. Why do you disagree Dan? 377 I don't disagree. I also don't care if he stashed it, or carried it out, or what he did with it. The point is that The FBI says there is a body out there (his)because of no pull/couldnt pull/total malfunction, etc. You and me say there aint. 47 out of 53 respondants made a guess that they also thot that in all likelehood, the guy got a chilly night reserve ride under a good canopy. There is scientific validity of collecting data. My poll can not be considered scientific in any way. It is opinions only. But, opinions gathered where the results cannot be tampered with and the sample is large enough do in fact indicate a general trend. No one said anything about hard evidence. I wanted to know from SKYDIVERS (This forum is DZ, for skydivers) what the population would summarize happened. 53 people spoke. A jury is 11. Look folks, hard evidence and actual investigation is gone 38 years ago. Using Skydiver knowledge and experience should to answer an important question in the mystery: Is there a body out there to look for? Yes or No? "No" flies directly in the face of your all knowing US Government. He picked a great rig, it worked, he lived. Thank you.

"The poll is meaningless. The concept behind it is woefully flawed." Polls in general, or this particular poll? Please explain what part of the concept is flawed. There is nothing that can be proved via a poll, but they provide a pretty good litmus test of wht a cross section of the people are thinking. Your jury system is built on it, if all jurors agree (they are polled until they reach a unanimous decision) then a guilty verdict is returned. If 53 people responded via an independant agency poll (results of Q5), then a reasonable person could deduce that there is probably some pretty strong merritt to the results of that question. If you dont like THIS POLL in particular, I will rewrite it and include a larger cross section. Polls are everywhere! There is a reason for that. You are an outstanding citizen and a credit to your race, and I respct your opinion!

Remember if you can find the parachute Cooper used you could become a millionaire your an outdoorsman hit the thickets. Jerry Jerry, with all due respect, I dont think there are very many on here that think that there is anything out there in the thickets to find. See attached image. Only 53 people responded, but its pretty reasonable to figure that a guy that intended to jump, KNOWS HOW TO JUMP! He picked a GREAT rig (I would have made the same choice), and he made his exit. This "wild spin" notion is one that the Whuffo government manufactured out of ignorance and embarressment. Even if the jumper took a ten second delay and was in a turn, the reserve is still gonna work! Thats what they do! 47 out of 53 said they figured he probably got a good chute and lived. What happened after that is anybodys guess but going to all this trouble and then never pulling the little silver handle? Really? Your firm stance on this important issue is not consistant with that of a knowledgeable experienced jumper. What gives here? The temps were plenty warm, well above freezing, the winds were light, he wore the industry's best, and there is only one reason we never found this wad of trash in a tree somewhere, its because he walked out of there with it. (Or had help getting out) Jerry, how do you explain the results of Q 5? Do you really think that all these other people hold your theory that he never pulled/couldnt pull/total mal'd all the way in? Please explain to me how this makes sense to you. Sincerely, and with respect. Dan

Thank you for participating in the short survey. I created the survey through an independent source and I promise, no one is tracking who you are or what your answers were, or who answered what! All that is way beyond my level of ability, or interest. But there were a total of 54 respondants as of this morning, a bulk of those from DZ, which is good. This is a mystery about a skydive. Let the true skydivers speak about the odds of donning a reserve rig and leaving a plane and pulling the handle. Of note is the fact that I also posted the link on Marla Coopers FB page with an open invitation for her or her friends to participate. See question 3 results. My take on Marla? I think she is an average citizen with no ill intent, or delusions of pulling a fast one on anybody. She was 8 and she told what she remembered. No more, no less. Are there holes in her scenario? I think there are but I don't agree in bashing her for honestly saying what she remembers. Of note from the survey, mostly unanimous agreement on wether the event occurred at all, the fact that he jumped, and the fact that the money left the plane when the jumper did. Question 5 is the kicker. The answer to this question spells the answer to where Cooper sleuths should be looking! If the masses are correct, there is no point in wandering through any woods, or dredging any rivers. I agree with the masses. The man wore a reserve rig, he exited, and he pulled. What happened next is exactly what is what is guaranteed (By the FAA/rigger certification) to happen: It opened. In 40 years of looking, somebody would have seen this wad of trash hanging in a tree somewhere if he had streamered in, no matter what color the canopy was. Also of note is question 10: In this survey there were 6 people that put down that they know who it was, which explains the continued frenzy over this case, the other 47 admitted that they didnt know who it was. Just like the redhead from 1971 as 377 recalls; 40 years later and it is still as much a mystery as it was the morning after, Here is a quote from Tosaw's book page 32: "Cooper put the military parachute on his back and cinched up the canvas straps to make them fit his chest and thighs. Tina noticed how quickly and easily he completed this complicated operation - just looking as though it were an everyday occurence." With all due respect to each opinion holder, Thank you for your participation, Dan Gryder

Thank you. There are probably several variations that I did not include. But lets think about this: Basically the guy left the plane. Thats a given. He either didnt/couldnt pull, or he pulled and got a total nothing and roe it in, or he pulled and got a streamer, or he pulled and got a good canopy. What other options do we have? Also, the guys up where Im from used to make night jumps on New years eve from 10,000 so they could be in freefall when the new year rolled in. Cold? below zero standing on the ground. Insurvivable? Not hardly, most enjoyed it and did it years ina row. (I never made a New years eve jump up there)