tetra316

Eugene Skydivers Beagle (southern Oregon) Skydive Oregon Madras (Bob Dause's place) Snohomish Kapowsin (both places) Lodi Elsinore Perris Eloy Sebastian Lake Tahoe Lost Praire Wasilla, AK 14 dropzones in 8 states - not bad

You know, there are those who would say ANY kind of skydiving is a wanton disregard for one's own life

I wasnt talking about one of the stunt participants suing another participant. I was talking about someone suing the manufacturer, after something went wrong during the stunt. Now you mentioned Bill Booth. As far as I know hes involved in both, regular sport gear and tandem gear. Why dont you think someone might as easily sue him after someone gets hurt doing a MR.bill with normal sport gear from Relative workshop ? What makes tandem gear so prone towards prosecution ? EDIT: actually one might argue that tandem gear manufacturers are actually much less likely to be held liable, since they have produced so much protocols, recommendations and training programs for how to use their gear properly. And so if someone chooses to act against, they are on their own.. That is a good point. Since there are so many rules about what is allowed with tandem gear, and you sign and acknowledge such when you get the rating, you would think it would be a lot harder to hold tandem manufactures liable over sport rig manufacturers.

FYI I agree completely with you. So then why are the same stunts/hybrid/Mr. bill/Rodeo jumps okay as long as a tandem rig is not invovled. You can suffer the same consequeneces of an entanglement, high speed premature deployement etc. But those jumps are considered okay. Just questioning the mentality of the status quo is all.

So you do it before deploying the drogue...then what's the big deal?

These bolded statements pretty much sums up why this is a REALLY bad idea, if you continue to rationalize things in this way you are a danger to yourself and others. Ok, devils advocate here....someone mentioned earlier that this discussion may have come about by seeing the same kinds of jumps made by experienced jumpers with their own rigs. We've all seen it and probably done it, I know I have. Hybrid dives with FF standing on one or two belly flyers rigs. Rodeo dives, etc. The exact same risks are involved in those jumps as are involved with a tandem rig with experienced jumpers and experienced passenger. The risk of permature deployment. So then why are hybrids/rodeo dives so accepted and no one bats an eye about the risk of prematures? Because we think solo rigs have better closing pin protection? Because the rigs are smaller and move around less? Because tandem rigs originally started out under the FAA waiver giving them the aura of added risk? Because the risk is acceptable on solo rigs but not on tandem rigs for whatever reason?

Agree 100%. I learned at a small dz and have also seen students progress at larger dzs.

And if the dz does not charge extra by weight don't try to hit up the customers as the TI and tell them there is a surcharge. I know of one instructor who did that for a while but when the dzo found out about if he wasn't too happy. Needless to say he doesn't work there anymore

If winds are high that would be less than 15m depending on WL. Is coming downwind as a first man allowed or will get you a talking to. ? If you set up intentionally downwind then you had better be landing in the high performance landing area and not the main or you will hear about it. Personally I see no problem with landing downwind. I used to do it a lot and plan on doing it more. However, for the safety off all involved you should be landing into the wind if you are using the FMD rule and landing in the main area.

Well, more of them can be in hold, than others can queue for landing within safely separated. Thats all we like to have when we are landing. Some should stay up and keep time and separation to others, than take their space in the queue and land using a recognizable pattern mostly in the same direction. What a pity! Our world is not ideal. All the more reason to have a set landing direction. It does more to ensure a set landing pattern and separation of canopies. If you have FMD and the winds are variable and shifting you may not know which direction the FMD chooses until he lands then you have the rest of the load in the pattern and I guarantee you will have people who have already started their pattern having to change their direction because they guessed the FMD would land the other direction. All this does is take away that set landing pattern and separation. Aircraft can control their descent, flying lower or higher if need and slower and faster in order to achieve a reconizable pattern with perfect separation. Yes we as canopy pilots can do the same to an extent but hardly to the same as an aircraft pilot. That's why you never canopy landing patterns set up as nicely as aircraft landing patterns. Yes we can do a better job however.

In which cases they are often the only aircraft landing at that time. Does not compare to having three, twelve, twenty or more other canopies in the air with you.

If I go for fun in higher winds I would not go down wind, but rather 45-90 degrees side wind than turning into the wind on flare, but this don't come without notice of "do not follow me...." Not sure what you are saying but a lot of places with smaller landing areas you are required to land in one direction only, be it north or south or whatever. Carving and turning and flaring 45-90 degrees right before touchdown are not allowed or will get you a talking to.

You are obviously not a CPA. Actually I am I work for a large regional firm. In the audit department. We only have to work saturdays maybe a a few times a year.

If people want to pay extra, so be it. But it's not required for the A. At Skydance, the extra 13 coach jumps would have cost me an extra $780 in 2004. OTOH, Chicago's program seems to do mostly coach jumps for the 25 with a much less substantial additional cost. Sadly, California pricing is more formidable. DZs and their people gotta eat/live too. It's not that people want to pay extra, its that they do not know any better. No dz I'm sure is going to be telling their students they can go somewhere else and get their A license for less. And I'm sure most students wouldn't even know where to begin to research dzs and prices.

Once again, you're missing the point: You and everyone else should create vertical separation so that you're not surprised at the last minute. Plan well in advance... there should be a very low possibility of last-minute surprises if you create separation. Once again you are missing the point of swoopers who do varying degrees of turns which means you cannot tell which way they are going to land until the last second. Or you have newer jumpers who may act unpredictable and change direction at the last minute. Personally I do not like following the first man down. People, even very experienced jumpers, make mistakes and land the wrong way. I cannot see any advantage of the FMD rule. I the winds are going to be changing that dramatically from the time you take off to the time you land then you probably should not be jumping.

Well I'm 17. Respect your elders! Almost 18-let us know when you're coming down this way

True but there are also plenty of other sports where this could happen that are even considered family types. Rodeo events, NASCAR events, dirt bike races etc. Whether you consider those events more or less dangerous is all a matter of perspective.

I vote for CPA. Sure you'd need a bachelors but the pay is higher and you wouldn't have to work weekends.

No, you do not have to do 18 coach jumps. You need 25 jumps, period, and have met all the requirements on either the 2 page or 4 page A license sheet. I'd venture that includes 4 or 5 coach jumps. reply] You do if the dz program so dictates. Or find another dz.

My thought is still to try to keep my mom out of this UNLESS he doesn't quit cheating. Bad idea. Put it another way. If your girlfriend/wife was cheating on you and a friend knew that - it is okay that they not tell you as long as she tells the friend she won't do it again. You would not want to know she cheated on you...??

Because at some dz's they never raised the price to begin with

I did that hence the resurrecting of this old thread. Now that the safire II has been around for a while just asking for a wider opinion of differing flight characteristics.

I jumped both the pilot and safire II from square 1. Then someone offered to sell me a safire 1. I haven't jumped one but I do know I really like the safire II.

So does anyone have any updates on this opinion on the differences between the two versions. I'm lookig for an all around canopy (wingsuits, big ways, etc.).

Not when those newbies talking smack on the Bonfire get their threads locked and then the popcorn becomes useless. No kidding! I was too late for the fun I guess.