FLYJACK

He worked at a paint shop so he knew colours... Russet is a reddish brown and can range to almost black. That image was head shape only,,, not the details and other features. The shape isn't far off the sketch.

The shape, not the details. Better angle..

A bit distorted angle... but The shape is between sketch A and B.. You got that pic from the EBAY listing... did you buy the book? I saw the listing a day after it sold, otherwise I would have bought it.

I have the 1971 map, it matches the so called "FBI" yellow map.. I can tell that it was several sections,, each was plotted individually, they were attached together and then the line was drawn,, at some point it was laminated and that lamination has turned yellow. But, the "FBI" map matches the original 1971 map. It is from 1971. I believe based on a careful examination of the joins that the so called "FBI" map may actually be a colour print of the original.. then laminated.

I don't remember who did it but they had the plots recalculated using a computer instead of the GEOREF hand estimated method. It was late 72 or early 73. The result was very little change.

The missing minute mark. I did a deep analysis of the minute marks,, measuring the distance between and computing speed.. there is some error in the marks so I had to compute the distance and deviation from the mean... I analyzed the entire flightpath. The data was clear... the missing mark is between 19:59 and 20:05.. (the green line in pic) This is a basic summary of the underlying analysis.. the red lines are equal and for 5 seconds. The green line is longer and should represent 6 seconds but there are only 5 seconds marked. The missing mark is in there. it may be due to some sort of rounding I don't know for sure but there is a missing mark in there based on the average speed of travel. The extra distance can't be accounted for due to slight variations in airspeed. It is too large. Conclusion, the times written are accurate, that means 20:05 and beyond is accurate. There is no shift in minutes. It is incorrect to move Cooper's LZ one minute further along the path.

Are you thinking the map itself is later then 1971 or the hand marking process.. I have the 1971 map and it is the same, the FBI map is actually several maps stuck together then laminated. The FBI map was prepared using GEOREF with a 1 mile error,, later - in about early 1973 I think the path was redone using computers to a 0.5 mile error.. there was only a slight change.

I looked online before for the 1968,, without success There are 3 on ebay,, fairly cheap https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=+air+force+51-40+1968&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=+AFM+51-40&_osacat=0&_oac=1 1968... contents page

Don't be so sensitive,, I wasn't criticizing you,, and yes you were challenging my claim using Tom's opinion which is fine. It went against my claim, therefore a challenge. It made me go check and fortunately I found the image quickly,, with over 9000 files I am having a hard time finding things I know I have. My posting the FBI doc supported Chaucer's interview with Spangler that he didn't create the map but obtained it from SAGE. There was no challenge. Something is up with you two... both of you are way over reacting. Completely off the charts... you guys are perceiving things that aren't there.

Chaucer, you have a history of misunderstand context. seriously.. many times and here you have done it as well. * When he was done with his drop analysis, he turned over his drop zone map along with the yellow flight path map over to the FBI. Thus, Spangler did not create the yellow flight path map, he simply used that map to create the very first drop zone map - one which we have never seen. It isn't clear in this passage if you were adding the yellow map term or it was in the discussion with Spangler.. All I did was clarify that the map was actually white not yellow.

It was a "debate" unless they changed the definition of the word. As I said, I have no problem with you challenging me on it,, I had to go back and find the image as it was years ago that I looked at it.. I appreciate having to go back and confirm my previous conclusion.. I wasn't criticizing you. I was responding to Chaucer's criticism about debating the map colour. I am not the sensitive one here,,, both you and Chaucer have blown up this minor thing into something it isn't.. I don't need this crap..

You guys have completely lost it.. I knew it was already in the file, I don't care what other's believed. I wasn't nit picking.. I was pointing that the colour of the map was white not yellow,, when you read your summary, YOU talk about the yellow map in a way that doesn't make it clear if Spangler was referring to the correct map.

You questioned my assertion using the claim from Tom... nothing wrong wth that. Point I was making was that YOU kept the map colour debate going. The map colour is irrelevant other than clarifying Chaucer's summary. Something is wrong wth you guys ...

Double down on what? I remembered that Spangler had already said he obtained it from SAGE and dug up the file.. Your interview confirmed it.. What is your problem. You two want a cookie?

Get a life, I wasn't criticizing you, I was pointing out that you kept the discussion going about the map colour.. You are losing it.

What a stupid thing to say.. In Chaucer's summary he said... "* When he was done with his drop analysis, he turned over his drop zone map along with the yellow flight path map over to the FBI. Thus, Spangler did not create the yellow flight path map, he simply used that map to create the very first drop zone map - one which we have never seen." The map wasn't yellow. I had concluded the map was white.. it isn't clear in that passage if Chaucer had communicated to Spangler using the term "yellow map"... or only used in the summary... Get it. AND STOP WASTING MY TIME WITH THIS NONSENSE This place is really deteriorating.

That was basically my conclusion,, I found that AL95MG5 is used in too many applications to narrow down to anything meaningful..

I only brought it up initially for clarification... as I remember concluding it was white with a yellow lamination. The creator would have thought it was white. olemiss then challenged me.. I found the pic and it is settled.. no big deal

There is no argument about the map colour.. You talked to him and used the term 'yellow map" in your summary.. My point is that it wasn't yellow,,, I don't know if you used the term "yellow map" with Spangler but you did in your summary. If you did refer to a "yellow" map with him he would not know what you were referring to,, it was white. But, overall, your interview basically confirmed what most of us already concluded and put yet another nail in the coffin for the Western Flight Path. Those of us who already accepted the flight path have noting to add and those that have pushed the WFP have no response. If you used the term "yellow map" with Spangler then his responses may not be accurate. If you only used "yellow map" in your summary then it is inconsequential. What sucks is when people fail to recognize context and say stupid things.

This is why forum's suck..

Sure, a planned LZ is a general area, not too exact.. Forget about Mac or other hijackers.. these are not comparables. How many hijackers jumped very close to where their hijacking started. How many hijackers gave no directions at all. How many changed their demands. How many were never identified. Other than heading south Cooper had no way of knowing where the plane was going to be before he jumped... his jump was ad hoc for three reasons,, he didn't know where the plane was going to be, he was delayed and he changed from his initial plan to then jump ASAP. I don't think the map is yellow, if I recall correctly from images I have seen the laminated part that goes slightly outside the map is yellow, therefore the lamination is 100% yellow. If the map was yellow and the lamination clear the laminated part outside the map would be clear. If both the map and the lamination was yellow then the map portion would be darker yellow than the laminated part outside aka double yellow for the the map plus lamination.. The yellow is consistent for the map and the lamination outside the map. Those original maps are white, not yellow.. So, logic and evidence indicates the map is white and the lamination is yellow. Anyway, I looked at this a while ago and that is how I remember it. My conclusion was that the lamination was yellow not the actual map. Edit,, Lucky I found it right away.. 100% confirmation the lamination is yellow.. and if the map was also yellow it would be darker yellow, a yellow map plus yellow lamination.. it isn't, therefore only the lamination is yellow. My point was Chaucer was talking to Spangler and referred to the yellow map... It wasn't yellow. case closed

olemisscub misunderstood.. My theory is NOT that Cooper didn't have any idea where he wanted to jump... Of course he did,, my theory is that he changed his plan when Reno was in play. That is supported by the demand change from initially airstairs down in flight to on take off... Cooper had no way of knowing where he would be when he did jump... he was delayed and the plane could have been 30 miles E or W... There is no way he jumped where he had planned prior. Cooper's LZ was 100% ad hoc.

LA and SF would have flown V-23.. San Fran is just W of Red Bluff and LA is actually E of Red Bluff.. they didn't have to stick on V-23. So, no reason to reject those Airports. True, while there is no evidence for any particular LZ (initial) the evidence supports an initial LZ south of Cooper's jump. I don't think your going to wing your LZ,, Cooper had an idea where he was going to jump when he stepped on the plane. You don't get what I am saying.. Cooper boarded the plane with an LZ in mind.. when Reno was negotiated he decided to not be on the plane in Reno and jump ASAP.. he had a little trouble with the stairs and jumped a bit N of Portland.. He did not plan to jump where he did jump for two reasons,, he was delayed and he did not know where the plane was going to be. He knew it was headed south but it could have been 20 miles E or W. The copycats knew where they wanted to jump supports my argument.. Cooper knew where he wanted to jump UNTIL Reno was in play. Because he gave no directions doesn't mean he had no initial LZ.. He would have given directions later in the air. But he changed his plan to jump ASAP. He then wanted out right away and did't need to give directions, but was delayed... He didn't say fly nonstop to Mexico City, he said we are flying to Mexico City but can refuel in Mexico only.. they had planned Mazatlan. If they were refuelling somewhere in Mexico then why did he say going to Mexico City.. The early 727 range isn't clear... there are 727 numbers from 1900-3400 miles.. It depends on the year, model and options.. This an early one similar to Norjak,, 3400 miles.. 1200 miles to the Mexican border, not sure which Airport was the closest for a 727 in 1971. https://www.museumofflight.org/exhibits-and-events/aircraft/boeing-727-022 Cooper believed the plane could make Mexico to refuel... or he wouldn't have made a demand that was impossible. Cooper had aviation experience so how could he get it so wrong.. He didn't. I believe he initially wanted the plane to fly dirty when the stairs were lowered in flight by the stew.. not dirty the entire way... that comms between Cooper, Tina and crew weren't clear. The Reno negotiations changed this plan. The plane would have easily made it to Mexico to refuel.. My point was that everybody uses the take off with airstairs down to infer or speculate on his LZ... Fact is, his first demand was airstairs lowered in flight and that should infer his initially planned LZ with other evidence. Based on the totality of evidence I am 100% convinced Cooper initially when boarding the plane wanted to and planned to jump further south than he did.. that he changed his plan and wanted to jump ASAP.

There is NO evidence for a "Portland" area DZ,,, (pre Reno accepted) none. The points against Portland/PNW are.. Clothing,, Cooper wasn't dressed for a PNW jump in that weather/terrain. His initial demand was Mexico, non stop. He believed the plane could make Mexico,,, I have a theory on why that was incorrect. He was described as swarthy latin part native/Mexican. He rejected US airports for being being too large for refuelling before accepting Reno,, there is no reason to do this unless he thought he was going to be on the plane when it landed.. if his initially planned LZ was the "Portland/PNW" area the size if the refuelling airport is irrelevant. Cooper gave no directions, his jump spot was not planned. The plane could have been far East or West.. Other than heading South he did not know where he was jumping. Portland and the PNW is the scene of the crime, it would be safer to jump as far away as possible. IMO, Cooper initially wanted to jump further south, lower stairs in flight and give specific instructions to his LZ later in the air. When Reno came into play he changed his plan to jump ASAP and not be on the plane when it landed in Reno. He changed his plan... that is one reason this case is so difficult.