propblast

Makes me sad. Propblast

Lots of earth splitting thunder here today. Even blew out a water main. BTW this is a multi day event. Propblast

When the skydivers talk about jumping. Or when the whuffos talk about the caper. It's never fun ( or informative )when everyone is BSing about each other. Edit: fixing Apple auto correct Propblast

Agreed on the last. Its one thing to do this in perfect conditions. It is quite another to do it in the conditions that were present. I know guys from contemporary times with modern spotters and big ass purpose driven platforms that jumped into the trees that then themselves had issues. Just look at that History of HALO operations that was posted several years ago on the site. The reason, I asked about the aircraft is because it is often pointed out that the AC was jumped later at the WFFC. I recently saw it shown utilized as a static line platform in Laos. In both of these cases the AC was rigged in its own way for jumper safety. The platform that Cooper exited was so far from optimal and he made no attempt to rig it as such, even in a temporary fashion. It makes me wonder if he was a trained parachutist. The fact that he did not ask for any kind of jump bag with the equipment leads me to believe that he wasn't military trained. He may have been a civilian skydiver but, I can't see a trained parachutist of any kind thinking that a money bag tied on with 550 would stay attached. Here is another question. Why did he jump where he did? What led him to spot the place that he actually stepped off the ramp? If he was a trained freefall parachutist something would have led him to that moment. Again in all the reading I have yet to find that clue for me. If there is no reason maybe that does point to a absolute novice. It is interesting to me that nothing was found in the search grid. Makes me wonder if he pushed a bag or bundle out the back to get the plane to buck. It also leads me back to wondering what would make sense as a target DZ. If Cooper was as smart as he seemed, I can't see him leaving that aspect to luck. I agree that a round jump could be made at night, even into the trees. I may have made a few myself. I just think that anyone would try to tip the scales in their favor and wouldn't blindly leave the ramp….err…aft staircase without a solid plan. What do you guys and gals think? But, I am sure this has been covered somewhere in this thread. It is hard to find amongst all the BS. Propblast

I want to talk about the jump aspects of this caper but am not sure what the correct questions are....

I figured as much. Bombing a open tail gate is one thing. That flopping aft stair must have been something else the night the heist went down. Propblast

I give this DZ a 5 Star. I have jumped at Raeford and Jumptown in the past so I have been around good DZs. This one is a lot of fun with knowledgeable folks that happily welcome new jumpers. I was impressed with the whole crew. Landing area is great, packing area is good, planes were nice. They get planes in and out but had a Cessna and a PAC750. It is located in farm country but that adds to the charm.

Wow. I thank you for posting that. Propblast

Can anyone tell me how it was rigged and what the difference may have been from Norjack? Propblast

This is how I learned. In fact Greg at Gbsp was the one that made me pack 6 times prior to my first skydive. It is a confidence booster.

How much did the Money weigh? Propblast

Jo, that would be a reasonable way. But, that rigging is slightly more complicated than 550 cord. It also takes up a lot more room than a small paper bag. The H912 container was meant to be jumped and was 36 tall. Propblast

I think the Wikipedia article has some significant errors. For instance Steele would have been a 31 year old paratrooper on D-Day with the rank of Private. I don't think it would work like that. And again, the book I read the story in was by Steele's Division Commander and it was not "The Longest Day" (although the story may have been repeated in that book). Robert99 You'd be wrong, as Steele, and many other paratroopers, were that age. He was a member of the 505TH PIR. Jumping Jim Gavin was the Commander. The Unit was a part of the 82d Airborne Division. H-Minus------ATW Propblast

It's not a theory, it's physics - if he jumped, he landed on the ground. well... he traveled somewhere in the direction of the center of the Earth in a parabolic arc at first, and he landed ... ? Note the ammo (money) bag around his waste! Hey I knew that guy! I started jumping in '76 at a little outlaw club in north central Illinois...the airborne soldier made famous by the steeple landing on D-Day was from Joliet. He would stop by the DZ about once a year to drink a beer and shoot the bull. I remember hearing the story well before meeting the man...I hadn't known of it prior and thought it might be a tall tale. Meeting him removed any doubts...cool guy! A few years back the wife & I were touring battlefields in France & Germany all summer...came across that 'monument' depicting the steeple landing, did some research on the net that evening only to find he had passed away of natural causes in recent years. I believe the fellow's division commander was Maxwell Ridgeway (I don't remember if it was the 101st or 82nd Airborne). When Ridgeway wrote about the D-Day landings, he described running through the city square area of the town, which contained about as many Germans as Americans at that point, and seeing the "poor dead American paratrooper" hanging from the church steeple. Ridgeway didn't learn until after his book was out that the paratrooper survived both D-Day and the war. But during the time he was swinging from the steeple, he did everything possible to appear dead. Despite that, the Germans did shoot at him from time to time. As soon as the ratio of Americans to Germans in the square got big enough, he managed to get down and get on with the war. If memory serves he was 101st...an extremely funny man of smaller stature, he was always the center of attention when he'd show up at the DZ. Try as we might, we could never convince him to make another jump! I think he enjoyed telling the story as much as we enjoyed hearing it...you could tell by the tone, manner & rhythm... he had told it many MANY times. Always lightening up the 'mood' of the no doubt terrifying event with self-deprecating humor made it that much more interesting. He joked that it really didn't surprise him getting stuck like that...his nature was to always get stuck with the short end of the stick. He then told of several funny experiences he had during the war which certainly made it seem like he was squarely in Murphy's sights. I STILL remember him sayin' ~ "It could be raining tits on the whole 1st army...I'd take off my hat & get a dick in the ear!" Air... do you know if the guy in the photo is still alive ? ... before I call my uncle tonight. I would like to tell him if you know? My uncle will be amazed that we are talking about this! Let me know if you know if the guy is alive or not ... My understanding is that he passed away maybe 5 years back or so... I did look on the net back when we were touring battlefields and seem to remember reading of his passing in a googled magazine article....can't seem to find it now though. Please give my regards & respect to your Uncle, I'm sure he'll enjoy hearing from you & recalling the memory! EDIT~ WOW...found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Steele_(paratrooper) The time frame I'm referring to was '77 through about '79...THAT does not jibe at all with John Steel passing in '69! I think I may have bought a BUNCH of beer for a bullshit artist! LOL...wouldn't be the first time. I should have kept reading John Steele passed away in 69 Propblast

It's not a theory, it's physics - if he jumped, he landed on the ground. well... he traveled somewhere in the direction of the center of the Earth in a parabolic arc at first, and he landed ... ? Note the ammo (money) bag around his waste! Hey I knew that guy! I started jumping in '76 at a little outlaw club in north central Illinois...the airborne soldier made famous by the steeple landing on D-Day was from Joliet. He would stop by the DZ about once a year to drink a beer and shoot the bull. I remember hearing the story well before meeting the man...I hadn't known of it prior and thought it might be a tall tale. Meeting him removed any doubts...cool guy! A few years back the wife & I were touring battlefields in France & Germany all summer...came across that 'monument' depicting the steeple landing, did some research on the net that evening only to find he had passed away of natural causes in recent years. John Steele! Gregor that money bag is one of those "specific bits" of equipment I talked about. Even then, those jumpers lost tons of equipment because the C46s were going alot faster than the normal jump speeds, which incidentally were much slower than a 727 rigged the way it was that night. Then we have Staticline vice freefall rigging issues. I agrees with Airtwardo though if he got out chances are good he got canopy. Parachutes want to open. Propblast

Airtwardo, Shows how much that I know. I thought he tied it to his harness. Around his waist is even more ridiculous. The burns and bruising would have been great. 550 as you know is not friendly at that speed. Even doing a pull off, ouch. And so it goes.... Propblast

How about pulling on the stairs and letting the canopy squid out into the slip stream, thus getting pulled off the stairs and avoiding the tumble through the slipstream? 377 has given a very comprehensive analysis of this method of exiting a 727, replete with videos of training missions in Cambodia during the Vietnam War where troopers exhibited this style of jumping from a 727. Different style of jumping in those videos...( unless it's a set I haven't seen)That plane was going super slow and was rigged for dropping. But as stated above, who knows anything is possible. I just wanted to talk about the skydiving aspect of this mystery. Eh, propster, it sounds like you are equivocating.... If Cooper knew more about the 727 than the pilots or Northwest Orient, don't you think he knew how to exit safely with twenty pounds of twenties? C'mon, put your thinking cap on! Give it your best shot! How would you do it, for instance? I don't see where I'm waffling. Norjack wasn't rigged for a staticline drop. I wouldn't have pulled this stunt. Two many variables. I have exited at high speed with a lot more weight. It can be an experience, even with the correct equipment. Propblast

How about pulling on the stairs and letting the canopy squid out into the slip stream, thus getting pulled off the stairs and avoiding the tumble through the slipstream? 377 has given a very comprehensive analysis of this method of exiting a 727, replete with videos of training missions in Cambodia during the Vietnam War where troopers exhibited this style of jumping from a 727. Different style of jumping in those videos...( unless it's a set I haven't seen)That plane was going super slow and was rigged for dropping. But as stated above, who knows anything is possible. I just wanted to talk about the skydiving aspect of this mystery. Propblast

Wrong. I've written about a dozen posts to students who say that. Although each jump is expensive, there's no such thing as a "failed" student jump that you land safely. An AFF jump is training - it's practice - it is NOT a test. If you have to repeat a training level to learn the skills, that's what practice is all about. Get your head out of the mindset that the need to PRACTICE a training level more than once is "failure", or you'll set yourself up for needless and unwarranted discouragement. If your instructors intimidate you or make you think that you "failed" a training jump, then you need to find new instructors or a new DZ. This is probably one of the best posts I have seen on this site since the 90s. Propblast

I jumped the Perris DC 9 at WFFC 2006. I assume it was quite similar to the 727 jump-wise. Piece of cake exiting, no wind at all until you were completely out. Then once clear you hit the slipstream and it's FAST. I think our jump run was about 180++. it sure wasn't like a Twin Otter exit. Some folks tumbled for a few sec. A few accessories were lost, goggles, fanny packs and a wrist altimeter that had worn out Velcro. My goggles were stripped off my face but the helmet kept them from detaching. The DC 9 had the stairs removed for the jump. There are YouTube videos of WFFC 727 and DC 9 jumps. It cost $100 but was worth every penny. The speed and single file exit put some jumpers quite a way off the DZ for their landings. Later loads did two passes to minimize the spread. 377 As I suspected. I think that moneybag took off or took him for a ride. Yeah...I'm with ya on that. Kinda always been my thoughts on it, I have jumped the 727 and even as an experienced jumper who had been briefed regarding the exit by people who had done it before..it was an eye opener! I also do a lot of demos and am quite adept at attaching things to my harness etc. Using good rigging technique with plenty of thought, planning & time...still throws me a surprise from time to time. Tying a couple knots with 550 on a 20 pound satchel would be about my LAST method of securing anything for that kind of jump. Completely agree. I have jumped with a bit of weight before. Getting the load symmetrical and tight are so important. I can't see it being done in the fashion claimed without a lot of luck. Propblast

I jumped the Perris DC 9 at WFFC 2006. I assume it was quite similar to the 727 jump-wise. Piece of cake exiting, no wind at all until you were completely out. Then once clear you hit the slipstream and it's FAST. I think our jump run was about 180++. it sure wasn't like a Twin Otter exit. Some folks tumbled for a few sec. A few accessories were lost, goggles, fanny packs and a wrist altimeter that had worn out Velcro. My goggles were stripped off my face but the helmet kept them from detaching. The DC 9 had the stairs removed for the jump. There are YouTube videos of WFFC 727 and DC 9 jumps. It cost $100 but was worth every penny. The speed and single file exit put some jumpers quite a way off the DZ for their landings. Later loads did two passes to minimize the spread. 377 As I suspected. I think that moneybag took off or took him for a ride. Propblast

For those that exited a 727. How hard is it to get off the staircase while in flight? Is it easy to get out and onto the hill with a semblance of body control? Just curious? Propblast

Is there one made? I need one badly as the current liner is done and I like the helmet. Any links? I have been searching around Propblast

I finished Sugar Alpha today. What became of her? Propblast

Any old planes in FL/GA? Propblast