dbagdrew

Just a couple questions for you: Does the Trango have vents/valves on it? On the website it says that the Trango is the same as the Troll DW in all ways. So I would assume that it does. But I couldn't really tell on the picture that is posted on there. 2nd Question: If it does have vents/valves, why does it have vents/valves. My understanding is that vents/valves are for slider down situations where you will be opening close to an object, among other things. But that there is not much advantage on slider up situations. Did you consider not including them? It seems like if you were trying to get the lightest/smallest pack volume canopy that this would be an easy thing to remove. Again, just curious. Edited to add: I suspect now that it does not have a vents/valves as I realized that the Troll can be made with or without the MDV technology. The website said that the Trango has the same characteristics as the Troll DW. I thought that the 'DW' part referred to the additional venting on the center cell, as per Dwain Weston's idea/design. So I just assumed that Trango had the MDV, so you can probably ignore my question. Andrew

I was just sending e-mails around trying to find out when this was going to come out. I ordered my suit soon after your post. I wonder if I was the first one to order it. I asked around to the locals in my area about the PF tracking suit, and the only negative feedback was that the belt and bootie clips needed to be stronger. Sounds like they fixed those issues. Looks great too. And all for the same price. Sounds good to me! Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

I was thinking about this, and was wondering if it is a common trend or thought among BASE jumpers to take freefalling from that height that lightly. A freefall from under 250' seems like a big risk to me, and something that I would take a long time to think about. While pondering that I found an Article by Dwain Weston, called 'Go Long, Not Hard'. Here is a quote: I hadn't read this before and thought it was good. Here is a link to the article: http://miller28.server101.com/discus/articles/golong.html I'm sure it has been posted before, but I thought It wouldn't hurt. Here is a link to a few more articles: http://miller28.server101.com/discus/messages/14/14.html?1110599010 Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

I have actually watched it on mute as well. That's funny. There are a few shows like that, Deal or No deal is one that comes to mind. But for that show you have to be watching something else at the same time, and flip back to it. There is only about 5 minutes of actual content that is stretched into an hour. I find the Stunt junkies website is a good way to watch all the cool stunts without having watch the hour of set up. Here it is: http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/stuntjunkies/stuntjunkies.html Here is a link to just the videos: http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/stuntjunkies/polls/video/video.html Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

I included a disclaimer at the top precisely for people like you. I would have thought you would have noticed the first line and not read it. No one is forcing you to read every single post that anyone posted. For the record, I have got several PM's from people expressing gratitude for posting something other than the dribble that so often gets posted (until Maggot got banned of course). Some people find this kind of analysis helpful and interesting. You are not one of them obviously. Does that bother me? No. Am I going to stop when I am finished with everything I can think of? Yes. I think, personally, that jumpers should have a more analytical approach, and have good reasons for the the decisions that they make. I was trying to help with that, that's all. By the way brake is not the same as break. Edited to add: SabreDave beat me to the Brake/break thing. Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

Another thought to those that are following this story and analysis. From SabreDave: Why didn't we consider PCA'ing the first 2 people in order to minimize the PC and bridle blowing around like that? Honestly I didn't even think of it at the time, but it would have been a good idea to lessen the risk, at least for the first 2 guys. Just something to think about, for me. Thanks Dave. Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

Clicky: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=317670 Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

Haha, let me guess what you want to try next time. I have no idea what you are talking about, I would never try anything like a McConkey off a solid object. Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

I will do my best to keep that object low profile, it's one I would like to jump for a while. I didn't realize that that jump was a 2-way. How was it set up? Did 587 leave from the corner at the same time? Wow... That's all I have to say... Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

Did you McConkey it to get a second jump in, or did you head out there unpacked? Yah, at least 6-8 feet. Right in the middle of that huge crowsnest. If it wasn't confirmed independently from the jumpers who saw it themselves I wouldn't have believed it. Who even thinks of doing stuff like that? I heard that he got canopy just before impact, is that true too or exaggerated? Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

That is a good point, might want to try that next time. We did stop at several points during the climb to assess winds. And we did throw some wdi's from the top, but throwing some at around opening height is a good idea. Also, for the record, I did mention in my post that the winds were getting gradually stronger the higher we climbed. It definitely was messing with my head a bit. I feel comfortable without, and did do several jumps at night off the bridge as well. That being said, my night vision is noticeably worse than my day vision (if there is such a term). I am going to start to wear contact lenses on my jumps I think, especially at night. Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

You're right, the s/l was kind of a problem. This is an object that I would like to free fall at some point. But not for a while. In any case it was not in the plan for any of us that night, and it seems like conditions are not the best reason to make a decision like that, well to me anyways. Thoughts along the lines of "hey we are having trouble with this static line, let's just free-fall it" seem like a bad idea to me. Also, all 3 of us have less than 50 jumps each, so we are inexperienced. It has been free-fallen before, in fact I heard that a jumper went stowed from a stinger that is about 20' higher than the crownest. That being said, low-ish freefalls are not a big draw for me in this sport. I got into it to jump big cliffs, and don't have much interest in testing those kind of limits, at least right now. Long answer, but anyways, not something I would have considered. Andrew Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

This is a story about a recent jump. DISCLAIMER: It is long and not very exciting, just thought I would share. Here is a recap. (~230' freestanding antenna with a large crow's-nest at the top, for the record) Adam (another local jumper) had called me earlier in the evening telling me they were thinking of heading out later. I was going to my folks for dinner and while I wasn’t feeling up for a jump at the time I thought that I would leave my options open and throw my rig and gear in the car. Background: I had surgery 3 weeks prior to remove a leaking saliva gland from my neck. Nothing major, but I was in the hospital recovering for 4 days. I have been feeling good lately, and went skating that night, and it felt good, as it had been a while since I had done anything physical. As the night progressed, I was thinking more and more about making a jump. My thought was, as this is a pretty low profile site, I could take my time on the climb, and that seemed ok. I am jumping a BJ 260 in a Perigee Pro, this was my 44th Jump. I also have a well tuned DBS. I did this by getting a rigger to sew 6 settings in, about an inch apart, and jumped them all (well 5 of them) off the Potato Bridge. Getting the same people to watch me and help me decide which was best. Not the most precise method maybe, (as you cannot get them exact) but this is my first rig, and it is close enough for me. Me, Adam and Mike (another local jumper) and 2 guys on ground crew, drove to the site. The three of us took our time climbing. Winds at the top were a little on the strong side, but steady. I would say 15-20k. Upon my wind analysis, I was 3/4 for my criteria (borrowed from a local jumper, and I added the direction one). Criteria is: Are the winds predictable, are they consistent, what is the strength, and is the direction appropriate? If you have ¼ you should probably go home. (at least my thoughts) Depends on the object of course. There are times that even one of these not being on would make the jump not happen (obviously) So, in this case they were consistent, predictable, in the right direction, just a little on the strong side. Stronger winds on an antenna are not bad, as it blows you away (everyone knows this, I'm sure, just being thorough). We talked about possible implications of strong winds. First, there is a good chance that the canopy will open in a stall, or something resembling/close to a stall. This could/likely will result in less canopy time, as it will take more time to get it flying. If you had a 180, this would not be a problem, but you would be facing the object (obviously). With the magnitude of the winds, I was confident that you would be blown far enough away from the object. We also talked about the fact that the ground winds were low, so if you had a 180 and didn’t do anything, you might end up getting a surge (potentially right away), or a lot of drive as the wind dropped and could potentially fly back into the object. Just something we talked about and kept in mind. Winds were in the same direction on the ground, but lighter, ~5k. Something else we talked about is the fact that there was a significant change in strength of the wind from the ground to the top of the A. Because of that there is a potential for some turbulence (not sure that is the right word) or at least a wind shear or something, as you hit the point where the wind changes speed. There was a fairly laminar change though. It got progressively stronger the higher we climbed, so this was not really a concern. Had some issues with pilot chute and s/l control, as they were blowing around pretty good. Glad I had an elastic (or as some know it as a rubber or a band or whatever) on the bridle. I was going to jump first and had Mike holding my pilot chute; the winds were mostly out of the west, but at a slight angle, so slightly NW->SE. Me and Mike decided to go from the NE corner, (despite the wind direction, that would have lead you to believe that you should jump from the SE direction). There were a couple reasons, and I will go into them. For one, the landing area is not as ideal on the SE corner. There are power lines that could come into play, and I (not wearing my glasses-as I didn't want to lose them jump. By the way, my eyesight is not that bad, and I did all my jumps at Twin Falls without them, so I am comfortable jumping without) couldn't really see where the power lines were for sure. Secondly, the angle of the wind was not that large. Adam decided to go from the SE corner, and he had a couple reasons as well: First, directly underneath the NE corner there is a bit of a structure, some kind of pole or something sticking out a bit. It was not sticking horizontally past the exit point, but a concern for Adam none-the-less. I looked at it and felt confident that I would clear it (I decided that I would give a hard launch, to ensure 110% that I would clear it and give my self a larger margin of error, being fully aware that this would further lessen my canopy time, because of the time that it would take for me to pendulum back under my canopy), but Adam was more comfortable on the other side (SE corner), saying that worst case, he could land on the road. (100% fine with me, by the way). His other reason was that from the direction of the winds, that was the best corner. So the plan was for me and Mike to both get ready, and tie off. I would go first, then Adam and then Mike last. I got set up, with my s/l set up to the right of me, and the wind going slightly left to right. Mike was holding my pilot chute, I started to count, and Mike said hold on, as the wind was causing my s/l to slide to the right, away from me. He slid it back, and held it better, with a little bit of a struggle. I counted again, and gave a real hard launch. Felt good, and I got a pretty good kick/swing into the harness. Got on the toggles pretty fast, and got it turned around, but not all the way into the wind (almost directly cross wind). I was coming in a little hot, and decided to roll/PLF on landing. Got my new gear dirty, but I was feeling good about the landing. Glad I was wearing full pads, by the way. (knee/shin pads, helmet of course, upper body armor – minus the back protector, as it doesn’t quite fit the contour of my back, and increases pin tension significantly enough that it gets in my head. I just need to buy some that fits me). Apparently, due to the wind, I side-slid across the entire platform before I released my brakes. I wasn’t really aware that I was moving that fast horizontally. I believe that we mis-judged the actual direction of the wind. I/we should have spent more time assessing the direction (my opinion). A 170-150 to the left from that corner could have been nasty, I think, as you would have to decide to either turn to the right, into the wind (relatively) or left, with the wind, but rotating towards the object. I kind of chose to ignore this fact, something we had talked about on a previous jump from this object. Leaving from the SE corner would have been the best option, in hindsight. Adam was next, he left from the SE corner, and flew straight, landing downwind. He landed with no problem. I asked him what the reason for just flying straight, and it was just that he didn’t feel comfortable turning that much that low. Mike was last, and the plan was for us to all be tied off and ready to go, then go in subsequent order, to minimize exposure time/lessen potential bust time. But Mike was having trouble with the static line sliding to the right, down the rail, like mine did. He could not control it, so he decided to cut the break cord and move to the corner that Adam jumped. It was a good thing that he did, as Adam’s carry-with you static line thingy was still on the object [see below for reason]. Mike was able to retrieve it, so as to not leave anything on the A. Mike tied off and jumper, he was able to turn 180 after opening and get right back into the wind and had a good landing. We were around the site for longer that I would have liked, but it turned out ok. I played in an intramural basketball game two days later, and I was feeling quite weak after. I am not quite in the shape I thought I was in. Again, in retrospect, getting injured and having to potentially fight for my life would really suck in my condition. I am reminded that being in good shape is extremely important in the event of an injury, by a close friend who was almost fatally injured after a jump off of an ‘easy’ object. I truly believe he would have died had it not been for his excellent physical condition. That said, I don’t think I will jump again until I am convinced that I am fully recovered from my surgery and back to the physical condition I was before (not that it was that great). But you see my point. Summary/Lessons. I think I was a little too set in my ways when I decided to jump from the NE corner, due to fewer obstacles. I should have been more open to jumping from the best place. Check to make sure you have you carry with you static-line thingy as you bag your canopy, especially if there is still some one on the object that could get it. Wear pads, even on ‘easy’ objects, you might need them. Physical condition can be more important than you think, and the draw to get back into it as soon as possible can be dangerous. Note: I am not trying to preach, I am just sharing my thoughts. Thanks for taking the time. I would love to hear feedback on my thoughts, my choices and my analysis (especially the wind thing). Reply privately or publicly, as you prefer. The following is from Adam, his comments from the jump. Note: I attached a picture of the static line setup, as it is supposed to be (and so people know what I am talking about, in terms of colors.) Maybe Adam can post a picture of what he did, so as to clarify what happened. Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

Blackjack 260 Loaded at 0.71 40 jumps, no malfunctions. for what it's worth... Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

You might be right about that. The nature of my post, after re-reading it sounded more serious than I intended. I know the deathcamp name is taken, I was just being argumentative. Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

What, it can't have multiple meanings? To me it was the comprehensive nature of the course, and the intensity that warranted the name. It was a long 7 days, we didn't have much time for anything else. Even jumping through the night until 5:00 am. (one guy on the course with even jumping with a broken foot - unbeknownst to him at the time, but still) If that's not a deathcamp, what is? Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

I had a similar experience, but opposite (well kinda). I got into his free course, but I would have gladly paid for it. (Don't worry, I relayed my feelings to Tom, and there is no fear of him stopping running the free courses because of my comments). He said that he got the feeling that people would have paid for the course if it wasn't free. I remember him saying something about his way of 'giving back to the sport'. The best part by far was the length and comprehensive nature of the course. I learned a lot, without a doubt. Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

Thanks for sharing your story. I quite enjoyed it. Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

You overlooked it. If you hit order, you can get the prices. http://www.pressurized.at/order_form.html From the website: pants 310 € jacket 275 € stashbag (either for pants or jacket) +20 € special setprice (pants + jacket) complete suit 550 € (including stashbag) Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

Thanks for sharing the video and story. I live in Canada, and it seems such a waste that I will not be able to go to these cliffs as easily as I can go to Norway, for example, which I am planning on doing this summer. Seems like I should be more loyal to my country. Question for you. Just curious, but did you attempt to throw any kind of Wind Drift indicator? I would think that you might have known that the winds were gusting that bad in the valley if you had. Depending on what I throw, I know I sometimes have trouble following the object all the way to the bottom of a cliff for example. Was that the case? Andrew Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

I think a little less than that, around 170'-190' was my guess. Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

Just curious, but what kind of Major commitment? I was picturing a sketchy/high bust potential as far as access goes being a potential major commitment, and then I started thinking about driving a long distance, and other things. What do others consider a 'major commitment' to be in BASE? I guess I am trying to turn a random post into something even slightly useful. Andrew Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

This one is jumpable, as far as my calculations go. A little low, but definitely configured better than the one GreenMachine posted. Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

You might be waiting a long time. I don't think there are too many people like that out there. Just a hunch. Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain

I like the 'Confidential' watermark on the video. That's funny. Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain