Nicholas Broughton

The argument is against it being military jargon. It’s the most general description for them, so you’d expect to find an example or two, not enough to qualify it as jargon though. VERDICT: Doesn’t meet the criteria under the definition of the word. Burden of proof for military jargon also not met. Fronts and Backs are not considered military jargon for parachutes. The judge rules in favor of Ryan and Nicky. Court is adjourned.

It comes from the English language FACT. It wasn’t military terminology “jargon” FACT. You need the latter to be true for your leap in logic (picked up by both H and Cooper in the military) to be plausible. If something is jargon for something as commercial as the military, then examples should be plentiful. It shouldn’t be difficult for a research extraordinaire like yourself to produce some. Where’s it at Jack? Ryan cited about 15 different memoirs where main and reserves were used. Here is a a 1943 U.S. Army training film, haven’t watched it in it’s entirety but already caught “Your reserve chute is life insurance” at the 4:47 mark. Based on the preponderance of the evidence SO FAR, mains and reserves were the militaries jargon for parachutes.

BUMP

H and Cooper could of said it for a number of reasons. You are making a leap in logic by thinking it MUST of been influenced by their background. The truth is we just don’t know. I already gave one example but here’s another. I think we can all agree it’s laymen’s terms. Front and back is the simplest, most obvious way to describe them. It provides a visual reference. Maybe their thought process was that since they were dealing with civilians. Their best course of action to avoid any confusion, would be to speak to them in the language they best could understand. Maybe Cooper and H had the same thought process in regards to their parachute request. At least that can’t be proven FALSE like the military nonsense.

According to the military it wasn’t used by the military, not me. The logical deduction would be that his background most probably had no bearing on his language use in that instance. Plain and simple. I know you want it to because of Hahneman but you can’t get there. That’s why, as Ryan said days ago, it’s a fruitless endeavor.

No. You claiming that it was military terminology, “old school military jargon” as you put it, is what I’m holding you to. I have testimony (multiple) from military saying it wasn’t used. I can keep racking up the receipts and post more of them but that won’t change your mind, so it’s a waste of time. You’re most likely to hear fronts and backs used by whuffos aka civilians or beginners in the sport. I don’t think anyone here besides you will disagree with that statement.

Not according to me, according to military personnel of the era, who dealt with parachutes, which I’ve provided receipts for. You have yet to bring any receipts or proof to back up your claim. I got some crossovers saying they never heard it in the military and the first time they heard it was in civilian circles. Mark correctly stating it wasn’t sport jumper terminology doesn’t = it being Military terminology. Hahneman alone isn’t proof with strong contradictory evidence that it wasn’t used in Military circles. Now if you can establish that it was with something other then your word, then it might hold some water. We have no idea why Hahneman used that terminology but you have certainly failed to prove the military as a plausible option for where he picked it up. What’s more plausible with what has clearly been establish, is that he didn’t want to give any tells to his military background by asking for mains and reserves, so he spoke in general terms, because we do know that’s what military guys called them (receipts provided) but even that’s questionable as he was blabbing about his personal life during his skyjacking. Bottom line is there is no parallel you can draw to NORJAK with it.

No. The point is military men didn’t use it, which is what you claim. Stop deflecting from your ignorance. Mark probably just can’t recall running across any whuffos that used it. The only individuals that MIGHT of used it at some point were whuffo (beginner) skydivers, who weren’t hip to the lingo/terminology yet, because it certainly wasn’t used by military personnel FACT.

Blah blah blah… exclusivity has nothing to do with your claim that Fronts and Backs was terminology used by military men to describe parachutes. It wasn’t used by them point blank period. You are the only one claiming it was and can’t provide any proof for it. If anything it was used by skydivers. You want it to be so because Hahnemen used it, we get it. Now take the L like a man and move on. More receipts!

Well that’s news to all old school military then. Because the resounding consensus from THEM is mains and reserves. They didn’t call them fronts and backs. That’s your invention. You can scream it from the rooftops over and over again, as much as you’d like, it will never make it true. Mr. 302 and myself are actually providing receipts for the matter in question. Can you do the same? Provide us with one document or one testimonial from old school military. We’ll wait…

I’ll stick with the word of our brave soldiers over some know nothing canuck. Thomas "Doc" Crump has extensive experience in skydiving and military logistics, currently serving as a National Skydiving Judge and various other roles with the U.S. Parachute Association since 1997. In addition to being an Instructor Assisted Deployment skydiving instructor and a Safety & Training Advisor, Thomas holds multiple positions including Dropzone Safety Officer and Skydiving Demonstrator. Thomas has been associated with the U.S. Army since 1994, where responsibilities include Aerial Delivery Officer and Multifunctional Logistics Officer, with leadership roles overseeing logistics and safety in diverse operational settings. Academic qualifications include degrees in Psychology, Sociology, Multifunctional Logistics, and Aerospace Medicine from Georgia State University, United States Army Logistics University, and others, reflecting a commitment to continuous learning and expertise in both skydiving and military operations. https://theorg.com/org/uspa/org-chart/thomas-crump-doc For the last time. Military not using Main and Reserve is factually inaccurate. It’s comical how Fly just can’t admit he’s wrong.

Of course the military uses RESERVE and MAIN. They DO NOT and have NEVER referred to chutes as FRONT and BACK. It’s merely a figment of Fly’s imagination. Like you said, it doesn’t matter how many times he repeats it, it doesn’t make it true. That’s what five year olds do. Just for good measure, I asked Lyle Cameron’s best friend John Fairbank. He was Army airborne with 750 jumps at the time of NORJAK. He started in the Army. Enlisted 53. OCS 55. Retired LTC in 1978. Then worked for the Army as a DA civilian until 2000. He’s 91 years old and has more patches and medals then you can count. Let’s consider this matter closed and move on.

He can’t. It’s nonsense. Just like Minnesota Nice LOL. Military jargon my ass! It’s obvious he’s made some confirmation bias lead connection to Hahneman when he starts going pointlessly too deep on some of these things.

@dudeman17 care to weigh in on this?

Mac has got to hold some kind of skydiving record for that exit!

Yeah. Good luck with that!

New podcast episode on the case, featuring Mr. 302 himself, Ryan Burns. If Ryan’s opinions are wacky then Fly’s are downright bizarre. Like Tina actually taking some of the ransom money from Cooper and later throwing it in the river near Tbar LOL!

It’s a repetitive pattern with Fly. Losing debate, uses the privileged info (Flyjack special), then plays victim. You are lying to discredit me, you are bashing and trashing me! Rinse and repeat. I feel bad for the poor folks who play tennis with guy.

Precisely, apples to oranges. Everyone is entitled to share as much or as little of their research as they wish. I don’t take issue with that. But if you’re going to use that as the reason for not doing media, coupled with an agreement to not discuss the case publicly, when you clearly do so everyday, it’s not satisfactory for me. If I think something doesn’t make sense, It’s my prerogative to call bullshit, just as much as it is for somebody to keep proprietary research under their hat!

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander hehe.

Yes, thankfully insurance is covering everything and he’ll be moving into a brand new house in 8-10 months time.

No but if you ever find yourself down in south Florida, I’m sure he’d be happy to meet you up for lunch.

Just got word, he’s fine. The site got hacked by a group in Turkey. He’s working to restore.

Absolutely, has anyone talked to shutt lately? Noticed the forum part of his website has been down. I hope he’s doing okay.