mjasantos

Hi bigbearfng, mischo has already mentioned it, so here it goes. From these 2 clicky links you'll be able to access to information related with Formation Skydiving: * Articles about Formation Skydiving http://www.mariosantos.com/uk_us/articles.htm * An example of a Continuity Plan http://www.mariosantos.com/uk_us/continuity.htm Besides all this reading, jump as much as you can, have tunnel time if you can and mostly, whenever possible, get some sort of coaching, so you won't have to "find the way" alone. Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Hi Anatoly! Cool video! My vote is in! All the edition, including the music are just GREAT, but the footage at the end of the video, seen from the ground with the 100-Way and the cameraflyers around, as well the tracking effect, are AWESOME! Congratulations again! Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

At least your mental training has already started! Cool! And I bet on that "visualization" the dives were AWESOME, as they should be! Thinking positive is half-way to get it done right! If in your thoughts you aren't able to see it going right, then it won't happen right! That's why all the visualization training you can do is never too much! But don't over heat your brain... take some pauses, but keep coming back to visualizing... it's like stretching: after a while you'll find out that visualizing it's becoming easier and that day after day, on that imagery you're able to find details that you didn't "see" before... every time gets more accurate and clear... and soon, when jumping, you'll realize that what's happening up there in the skydive has already gone through in your mind prior to the jump. If for some reason on your visualizing you reach a point where you mistake (or "brain lock") in the "mental skydive", continue from there as if you were really skydiving... if you have a mistake always at the same point or transition in your mental dirt diving, think "STOP" to yourself and take a 30 seconds pause... then before you visualize the all skydive again, go to the point where you were having trouble and repeat it mentally (and in the right way) 3 times... now that you got it right, visualize again the all skydive... And when you go to the door, don't get worried about brain locks or about forgetting the sequence... that's the moment you are most prepared to... you did all the prep and visualizing... so, you'll do it right (don't think even slightly about mistakes or the possibility that something could go wrong... thinking in advance, at the door things can only go right)! All you need is a proper climb out as in the mockup (exactly the same places for all those feet and hands in the door... if that don't happens means that you need to train more exits at the mockup... it's for free and it's better than having a funnel just because the team wasn't comfortable to have a good climb out and exit)), smiling all the time, focused on the count but ready to have fun and enjoy the "ride down". It seems your team folks are as well looking forward to it! Motivation is always GOOD! Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Thanks Ron! "The only thing I would do different is to include the "Random Blocks" (7,9,14,15) in with the random training." Actually we did something similar, because although these are blocks, while performing the block we have four individual pieces (instead of the usual 2 pieces)... that's why we put them at first. I forgot to add, that if the training plan has enough jumps for it, we would include as well all those randoms corresponding to the 1st point of every blocks (e.g. Stardian, Monopod, Snowflake, etc.)... there is no interest in training the random of the second point of a block, where the 2nd point is different from the first one (e.g. Off-Set, Turf, Star, etc.). "Then for my block training, I would do two block dives and then on the repeat I would exit the other block, unless the first exit was soup." Actually this is how Matrix FS used to do it, just for the repeaters type of blocks. The solution I previously mentioned (2 jumps per block) would be a good one when we have enough jumps in the plan... because we didn't and we had to speed up through our block review, we did it as Ron said, combining 2 similar blocks. Here's an example: REPEATERS 9 7 7 9 15 14 14 15 20 22 22 20 2 4 4 2 6 19 19 6 21 11 11 21 8 18 18 8 MIRROR IMAGE (1 block combined with a random) 17 B 17 B 5 J 5 J 1 N 1 N NON-REPEATERS (1 block combined with a random) 3 P 3 P 13 O 13 O 10 H 10 H 16 E 16 E 12 Q 12 Q Regarding block times, if you go through our continuity plan linked pages (which included all the randoms and blocks) - http://www.mariosantos.com/uk_us/continuity.htm, you'll be able to find for most of the blocks the information about block times. Have a look at this example http://www.mariosantos.com/uk_us/blocks_09-15.htm#13 - Hammer - Hammer Block Times: On the Exit, On the Hill and At Terminal ... and regarding teams level: World-Class Top Teams, Open/Advanced-Class Teams and Intermediate-Class Teams. Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Hi! Robert De Niro, in "Taxi Driver", would say: "Are you talking to me" OK... this is a complex issue and it is not easy to give an advice without knowing the team, its goals and its restrictions. I got an e-mail from Igor (Italy) also telling me to be waiting for a post of mine about this subject... so here I am. I've already sent to Anton, Matrix FS training plan, as I think their goals and number of planned jumps for the season are alike for what we had planned last year, before the team reached an end. So, I e-mailed him our complete team spreadsheet, including calendar, jumps plan, training schedule, individual goals for each jump, expenses worksheet, team meetings attended, ground training (including crreping, technical sessions with video and seminars), etc.. I think is a good tool to start an intermediate team, which I did it with all the precious help of Jack Jefferies and Dan BC, through several contacts we have held along the season, where they acted as "AWESOME online coaches". I agree with most of the things told here, except for that mentioning to focus the training on the block techniques... as Ron and any other FS expert coach would say, a good Random Work is the core and foundation of all the Formation Skydiving... just remember this well known sentence: "shitty random, shitty block". What could I add and share with the forum? Well... at any of the training stages, we always did the same jump twice, allowing individual and team improvements after the video debriefing. Because we were packing ourselves and the budget was a restriction, we planned always por 6 jumps a day, 2 weekends a month (would be about 24 jumps a month). What we did at Matrix FS, following JJ advice, was at first to concentrate on Basic Body Flight drills, where we did about 20 jumps. At this stage we did things like: - Level variations, 2 on 2; - 90º & 180º turns, 2 on 2 (no grips); - 90º & 180º turns; - 360º turns to the right, 2 on 2; - 360º turns to the left, 2 on 2; - Bipoles built clockwise, 2 on 2; - Bipoles built counter-clockwise, 2 on 2; - Side slides, 2 on 2; - Super-positioning, 2 on 2. Then, before going into any block, we entered a Random Work training phase... about 40 jumps (we had 2 competitions somewhere in the middle of this phase, but we were focused on our Random Work). It shoudl have been the double of this number of jumps, but the DZ schedule changed, so we had to adjust our initial plans. At his phase we started with 3 random jumps, then 4 random jumps, 5 random jumps and if we had the time we would have done 6 random jumps, to work memory (from the easiest to the most difficult). Just as an example we did jumps like: E - F - Q B - O - J H - C - F A - E - D B - J - C - G P - Q - M - L N - C - K - D G - F - A - H C - M - O - E F - N - Q - G J - P - L - K H - A - D - L - P K - B - G - J - O M - A - Q - C - D L - P - F - N - H E - G - C - A - M O - K - B - F - L Q - H - N - P - G N - C - K - B - Q O - E - J - F - H (...) This way we went through the several randoms more than once, and practised every exit. After this phase we entered a Block Technique training phase (should be about 44 jumps... 2 per block)... the ideal would be not having not more than one block per jump (alone or combined with a random - 3 points jump... later 4 points, making 1 block and 2 randoms or 2 blocks good for training combination). We grouped the blocks according to their type and went along the training with that rational. The rational according to our continuity plan http://www.mariosantos.com/po/continuity.htm, was this one: REPEATERS - Blocks with individual flight only, type 1+1+1+1: 9, 7, 15 and 14; - Blocks type 2+1+1: 20 and 22; - Blocks type 3+1: 2 and 4; - Blocks 2+2 type: 6, 19, 21, 11, 8 and 18. MIRROR IMAGE - Block 3+1 type: 17; - Block 2+2 type: 5 and 1; NON REPEATERS - Block 3+1 type: 3 - Block 2+1+1 type: 13 - Blocks 2+2 type: 10, 16 and 12. After this phase should exist a Competition Preparation phase... jumping one or two 10 rounds draw. This would work as well as a test phase, to see if the team is within its goal average range. The jumps here should be done at 10,000 ft (it's different than jump at 13,000 ft). The next season, we would have done a mix between Random Work and Block Techniques, combining easier to memorize jumps to work on speed, with most difficult ones to keep brain working and get used with longer sequences avoiding to brain lock. For example 2 random work jumps + 4 block jumps per day... according to the needs, you could go through a day of just Random Work or Block Techniques, to work some worst and most difficult transitions. We were always very methodic on the ground preparation, going exactly as described here http://www.mariosantos.com/docs/briefing_structure.htm. We also worked with the visualising (http://www.mariosantos.com/docs/visualizing.htm) and arousal level (http://www.mariosantos.com/docs/your_optimum_arousal_level.htm) concepts. The debriefing structure was also as this one http://www.mariosantos.com/docs/debriefing_structure.htm but here I have to say that for some of the portuguese mentalities, this was too way advanced... people in general has problems with constructive critics... unless you have 5,000 or 6,000 jumps, which is unless you are a recognized "skygod", and if you are in charge of the coaching (without and outsider coach), it's tricky... Don’t ever forget the basics: LOOK AT WHERE YOU HAVE TO MOVE AT (remember your move, and repeat it, on the creepers) - MOVE – STOP – LOOK – GRIP – LOOK AT KEY PERSON AND BE PREPARED FOR THE NEXT POINT (ANTICIPATION) – KEY – FLASH – MOVE… the cycle continues... this is paramount... not doing it will not allow your team to progress. Going FAST is not SLOPPY RUSH (many people don't know the difference)… the secret is going over all these steps but each time (as training improves) with smaller pauses… but the steps are always there and should be observed. How FAST should you GO? This is a question asked too many times... GO AS FAST AS YOU CAN CONTROL, which means, GO AS FAST AS YOU CAN STOP! Don't throw your move momentum into your teammates... that's why you should STOP, before you GRIP. Even when creeping, stop your moves momentum, before gripping on your teammates!!! The work on the ground is vital (if you don't do it, the jump will not go as well as it should): memorize the jump sequence, dirt dive, creeping all those phases (transitions, pauses, eyes closed), exit practice on the mock up after creeping and before boarding… visualizing all the time, with small breaks to avoid brain burning… visualizing as well on the climb up… when you get up to go to the door, check that your arousal level is at your best performance level, smile and think to yourself that it will be a great jump (think POSITIVE), you WILL do it FINE (don’t think about mistakes) and enjoy when you hit the relative wind… have fun but with concentration till you get back to the hangar for the team's debrief... the jumps only finishes after that... Well, too many more things could be told, but I think this should be enough for now... sorry for being too long on my writing... I get enthusiastic all the time I think about it and remember my past FS experience... I wish I could be in the US: there is too much easier than here, to keep going along with FS teams and with all year round DZ's. Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Hi Mish, I do agree with Spike: VWT in Paris is much more expensive than any SkyVenture in the US! I did as well all that accounting on expenses, comparing similar time to spend in the tunnel, and I live in Europe (Portugal). Just for you to have an idea, if I would plan 2 hours of flight time in the tunnel (with coaching), I would spend € 2,612 EUR = $ 3,056 USD. If for example instead you decide you take an Airspeed Camp, e.g. the standard 3-day Deluxe camp (which includes 1.5 hours of flight and costs $ 1,650 USD) plus half an hour of extra time with an Airspeed Coach ($ 320 USD), the total cost for these 2 hours with an Airspeed Coach would be $ 1,970 USD. By comparison with the $ 3,056 USD, the difference of more than a thousand US dollars (for 2 hours of flight in the tunnel), would be enough to pay the 2-way flight from Portugal to Orlando. And the more you fly, the biggest this difference will be. I've never been in Paris Aerokart but I know their facilities are GREAT... the problem is that they are very EXPENSIVE! They have a 5% discount for flight time between 3 and 6 hours and 10% for above 6 hours. You'll be able to find more info on the Aerokart VWT, here: http://www.veloce-skydive.com/soufflerie/index.html and http://www.aerokart.fr/ There are also some differences in the way both SkyVenture and Aerokart operate, regarding schedule of flight times and the days the VWT is open to the public, where I think SkyVenture has much more flexibility than Aerokart. Hope this helps! Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Hi! ??? "pull at 300ft or just below it" ??? 300 ft is way LOW... but "below it"??? OK! OK! You meant 3,000 ft (3k)! ... at 300ft you would be BASE'ing your birdsuit! Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Hi! You'll be able to find some pics of my Vector 3 V306 Micron at http://www.mariosantos.com/uk_us/micron.htm. Inside, I have: Main: Stiletto 120 ft² Reserve: PD Reserve 113 ft² AAD: Cypres 1 pin Expert Relative Workshop used one of my pics at their web site: http://www.relativeworkshop.com/testimon/test_index.html (the 3rd from the bottom) Also if you go to http://www.mariosantos.com/uk_us/matrix.htm and http://www.mariosantos.com/uk_us/matrix_photos.htm, you'll find some pics of this Micron "in action"! Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Hi Alex! This link might give you some of the answers you're looking for. It's about the "Outside Center Launch" and is at http://www.4way.org/training/answers.htm#OC_launch from 4way.org website (training section / ask the coaches answers). Additionaly, have a look at this link: http://www.mariosantos.com/images/Matrix_FS_Meeker_Exit_1_05Oct02_s.jpg I used to be the OC in my former team and the photo shows well how the OC (and the team) has to present to the relative wind right after the exit. Sometimes an image is better than thousand words... Hope it helps. Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

You can bet on that!!! Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

I don't know the exact designation in English, but I would say it's a 3 mm thick anti-slippery rubber fabric, most of the times used as indoors pavement. This way, when you lay down on the creeper with your jumpsuits, you can move fast without worrying about to fall off from the creeper. Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Hi! My 4-Way Team (Matrix FS) broke up last February, but I'm still an "addicted" to everything involving 4-Way FS!!! Looking at the things your team developed, my team had as well most of them. Initially, I used too the laminated 4-way dive pool playing pieces (in 4 different colors) for engineering practice. Most of the things are still available an the Web, as I created a team's page at my web site, with a lot of links for dive pools, continuity plan, team's pics while performing, formation skydiving articles, etc.. Feel free to have a look at the following links: 4-Way "Matrix FS" Team's page http://www.mariosantos.com/uk_us/matrix.htm Formation Skydiving Articles http://www.mariosantos.com/uk_us/articles.htm Team's Pics http://www.mariosantos.com/uk_us/matrix_photos.htm Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Hi! These creepers are "home-made" and work fine because the wheels are excellent! If you are willing to take the effort, you can copy from the attached pics... to help you, the measures are in the pics. Hope it helps! Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Hi, Here are 2 articles on Exits, from Airspeed: http://www.mariosantos.com/docs/exits.htm in Airspeed Formation Skydiving Advanced Skills Camp Work Book http://www.mariosantos.com/docs/basic_exit_techniques.htm in Airspeed 4-Way Training Work Book Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Actually... a 5278.87139108' cliff Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Tom, Myself am not a BASE jumper, but you more than deserve these congratulations!!! 1000 skydives from an airplane is a milestone... but 1000 BASE jumps is a MILESTONE!!! Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Hi Igor! I guess you already know my opinion about this issue... we've been talking since long time about this and other related FS issues. Anyway, and just to share, here it goes what I think about this: Individual flying skills are very important... just talking on the technical point of view, the most advanced the team members are regarding their flying skills, the most possibilities the team has to score higher. But to get to the advanced level, any individual has to get all the basics first... without applying the basics, an individual will never reach an advanced level regarding his/her flight skills performance. That's the mostly common mistake Formation Skydivers do: thinking that will score more points by rushing... to score more, the team (and obviously all its team members) have to go faster, but to the point where fast is not rush... When I talk about this subject, I always remember when I was coached by Dan BC at Skydive Arizona (2000) and SkyVenture (2001). He used to tell me: go as fast as you can control, but not faster than that. Synchronicity is also important in a FS team: it's useless, even if you are able to do it in control, to perform a 540º turn in 1.5 sec if you have a teammate performing it in 4 secs, because by having very different speeds within the team, that might affect synchronicity, something that many times is responsible for brainlocks. Dan also uses to say that if you look at world class top teams and play their tapes in slow motion, you'll see that they are applying all the basics... they are not rushing and going over the basics without applying them... the secret is that, due to their training, they are able to perform all the steps including in each move at a much faster pace, mostly because they have reduced pauses time... if to make some move it's required to perform a certain number of steps, those steps are all there... the difference is that they don't spend too much time waiting at each step... their training made them able to reduce pauses and that is what makes them going faster. Also at the tunnel, while training compressed accordians, I clearly remember Dan telling me to "STOP" before doing my grip... this avoids passing the momentum of your move onto your teammate... looking at normal speed for the tapes of teams performing at or above 20 points average, we have the idea they are not stopping... but when we look at slow motion or even frame by frame, we see that the STOPs are all there... they go faster through all the steps because they can control it and have smaller pauses... going faster without control, without being able to STOP before grip, it's just rushing, going over the basics, and all you need at your team to block your team progression average is to have an individual rushing... the remaining teammates might be going through all the basics, but if one is not, then the team is "done". This was just an example to show how the basics are important... but many times they are misunderstood... any skydiver with advanced skills, is always going through the basics. So, just on the technical point of view, I agree that the basics are the foundation required for any team to progress further. If we could use a concept of team speed for how fast the team can perform FS moves, we will always find (even at higher level) that team members have different "speeds", meaning that each one limits are different... then the team has to find a "window speed frame" enough comfortable for those who are faster can slow down a bit and those who are slower can speed up a bit (but always without losing control... if they lost control for a moment, they have exceeded their limits)... this is the way to achieve synchronicity. But the team performance, as you know, doesn't depend exclusively from technical skills. If anyone in your team is not willing to learn, that will block your team progression... the same when the level of enjoyment and fulfilment is low: the results will be a negative effect in the motivation of the remaining team members. Lack of commitment is also a bad thing for the team's life... not to mention team communication and other team dynamic aspects... without communication both in the air and the ground, a team won't also progress... the human being is a very complex thing... I know what you are talking about and why you posted this thread... I have already had that experience too... welcome to the "team"! Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Hi, My italian friend Igorsky called my attention to this post.... I've contacted JJ about it and this was his reply: ===================================== "Not surprisingly, I do not remember the conversation you saw posted. However, the person who does remember it certainly misunderstood me to some degree. 1) I've always enjoyed training in the tunnel. The only caveat is that, for me, it never replaced freefall but it did supplemented it well. 2) No idea what is meant about reinforcing bad habits, this was not my experience. 3) It most certainly should be balanced with freefall and the further progressed a person's skydiving is the more important actual freefall becomes. So, I hope this sets the record straight. It was certainly a misunderstanding largely due to my poor communication skills, I'm sure. Jack ===================================== Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Actually I didn't start the discussion about what to call to this jump... I first mentioned skydive, but phonics1981 brought up the point about skydive vs flight... I think the discussion derived from there didn't withdraw the merits on Felix on this performance over the English Channel. If you carefully read my post (in the begining of the thread), you'll see that my point was just about trying to know more regarding this jump, as I mentioned there, in order to get the exact data (figures) for the skydive / flight: - Exit altitude: FL270 (27,000 ft), 30,000 ft, 9,000 m and 10,000 m (all these are quite different); - Horizontal distance covered: 21 miles, 22 miles, 34 Km, 35 Km and 36 Km (all these are quite different); - Time of "flight" (from exit to parachute deployment): less than 10 minutes, 14 minutes, 6m22s (all these are quite different); - Parachute Deployment altitude: the draw of the Icarus II project mentioned 1,000 ft (304.8 m), later was told he deployed at 1,000 m and now 4,000 ft (1,219.2 m) are being mentioned. Also on that post, I have first congratulated Felix for his jump: "Congratulation to Felix on his achievement and for the media coverage provided almost in real time."... all this to say that by posting these questions, as I said earlier, I'm not trying to remove the merits of the jump, which is remarkable whatever the data is... my point was just the try to know a little bit more about the details involved... nothing else. Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

As I have suspected, he used such equipment... This news just confirm it: "(...) Baumgartner was equipped with cameras as well as highly-advanced data monitoring technology to ensure that he could be tracked during his journey. (...)" http://breaking.tcm.ie/2003/07/31/story108070.html Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

I'm led to believe that if the record achievement would be the real goal, several GPS data (from devices previously calibrated) records would be available for independent entities to confirm it or not. I guess that they might have been used, but would real data confirm the details released? I guess we'll never know... or will we? I'm sure Felix team knows it... they have all interest on that, regarding his future attempts on extreme skydiving achievements... I agree with Quade that the real goal here was to advertise the "Red Bull" brand, with a successful media coverage operation. I think that this was an awesome jump and my point on bringing this issue here was not to contest any type of record achieveement, but only to get accurate information regarding the jump itself... because that would be interesting to know and specially because the news released so many contradictions and sketchy details. I have not limited myself to post it here... I have contacted Felix through the e-mail form provided at his website (which is down now), asking him (or somebody of his team) to release such data (even if not audited by independent entities, as that probably was not the issue itself). Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Hi Quade, Entirely agreed! Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Hi! Well, this type of jump wasn't obviously the typical skydive, making it look more like a "flight"... This could generate a big discussion thread... The terms skydive and flight have relationship but have different concepts associated with each of them... Skydive/Freefall - dive from the sky... To jump and fall freely from an airplane, performing various maneuvers before pulling the ripcord of a parachute... Flight - the ability to fly... not just to fall (although covering a huge horizontal distance), but also the ability to maintain or even gain altitude.... Being so, I would put Felix "flight" under skydive rather than flight group of events... since Felix exited the SkyVan, he was only able to "fall" (not maintain or gaining altitude to give full meaning to the flight concept), although he did it with a much slower descent rate, due to the conversion in horizontal speed generated by the lift of his wings... Assisted flight? He was wings assisted (6 ft carbon wings), but flight assisted? Again, he has only "fallen"... that's why he had to jump at high altitude in order to manage with its glide ratio (for every foot of descent, had 4 feet covered horizontally)... It's obvious these carbon wings are an extra for the human "flight"... IMHO, the wingsuits are also an extra for the human "flight"... a different one, but an extra as well. Regarding the "skydive" term, I have found it in many places (not my invention and not only in CNN)... I'll leave "just" these (with skydive or freefall in bold) "An Austrian with a carbon wing strapped to his back is to attempt to skydive across the English Channel" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3106147.stm "Wings help with historic skydive... Felix Baumgartner celebrates after his successful freefall across the English Channel on Thursday... A skydiver known as “The Missile Man” on Thursday became the first person to cross the English Channel in an unpowered flight, free falling at up to 230 mph in the process." http://www.msnbc.com/news/946434.asp?cp1=1 "Un parachutiste autrichien équipé d'un aileron en carbone a réussi jeudi matin la traversée en chute libre des 34 km de la Manche entre Douvres (Grande-Bretagne) et Calais (Pas-de-Calais) après un saut à 9.000 mètres d'altitude." http://fr.news.yahoo.com/030731/202/3br5s.html "Man skydives across English Channel" http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s914507.htm "Looking a little like Batman, an Austrian stuntman wearing a carbon wing today became the first person to skydive across the English Channel." http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/31/1059480466666.html "Extreme sports fan Felix Baumgartner became the first person to skydive across the English channel" http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1009584,00.html "Felix Baumgartner - In Free Fall from England to France" http://www.aptn.com/aptn/headlines.nsf/0/3E78073BE61875D585256D6D004802E9?opendocument ... although it looked like a flight (and might contain flight elements), it seems that he did a skydive... a different one, but still a skydive... ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

I agree that there are still too many sketchy details... All the information regarding exact data for the exit altitude, horizontal distance covered while flying the wings, time for the flight (skydive) from exit to opening and opening altitude... Also we could find some contradictions... First we've read in the news that Felix himself reported to have had difficulties on getting a reference for his flight from England towards France, due to the clouds (overcast), mentioning that just in the last 2000 meters (altitude? horizontal distance? wasn't specified) we had been able to see the torches of his landing team... now we can see in his website, that for that purpose he has followed a Pilatus Porter PC9... if he did that, why mention troubles with references? Just to make it look more difficult? Details would be welcome, as it is quite different to cover 35 Km in 10 minutes, 14 or 6m22s... Also which distance: 34, 35 or 36 Km? Which exit altitude: FL270, 30,000 ft, 10,000 m... ? Which opening altitude: 1,000 ft, 1,000 m or 4,000 ft? Playing with different figures already made public in the news, we can get average speeds as low as around 165 Km/h up to 333 Km/h... it's quite different (just the double)... It would be important these figures come out as exact as possible to avoid those comments of the numbers being worked out to suit the desired purpose and the "bets"... Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal

Hi all, It would be interesting if Felix Baumgartner could release some real and accurate technical information regarding his accomplishment of Icarus II Project on the English Channel crossing, while skydiving with a 6ft carbon wings. My point here is that although such information has been kept confidential, now in the news we see so many different figures regarding the exact exit altitude, exact time of skydive (from exit to parachute deployment), exact horizontal distance covered while "flying", the exact opening altitude, just to mention the main ones. It would be important to have this figures released from its source, as now we can "play" with the numbers and according to the data we use, we'll get very different conclusions. For example, in some BBC articles I found so different informations as these: - Exit altitude: FL270 (27,000 ft), 30,000 ft, 9,000 m and 10,000 m (all these are quite different); - Horizontal distance covered: 21 miles, 22 miles, 34 Km, 35 Km and 36 Km (all these are quite different); - Time of "flight" (from exit to parachute deployment): less than 10 minutes, 14 minutes, 6m22s (all these are quite different); - Parachute Deployment altitude: the draw of the Icarus II project mentioned 1,000 ft (304.8 m), later was told he deployed at 1,000 m and now 4,000 ft (1,219.2 m) are being mentioned. What are the exact figures? Without their release from a secure source, it looks like the numbers are being "manufactured or built" to suit the desired results... we are watching in the news speeds from 220 Km/h up to 360 Km/h, but if we play with certain data already provided those numbers would be impossible to achieve. Thanks in advance if someone can provide the correct data for the Felix "Flight" across the English Channel. Congratulation to Felix on his achievement and for the media coverage provided almost in real time. Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal