calphoto

For you SkyVan Drivers out there, what is the shortest practical length you would safely operate a SkyVan out of? Would you be able to reqularly operate it out of 2500' of Gravel? Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Flew a Twin-Bonanza for a couple of years out of 2400' of gravel, and had no problems. At that same DZ, they had operated a Beech 18 for years when it had 2000'. They also had a Twin Otter, a Porter, and an Islander during that time. Flew a jumper King Air A90 out of 3100' of turf, and on a hot day we were hard pressed to clear the fence with a full load of jumpers. If we had had to abort I am sure that we would have eaten some barbed wire, but there was plenty of overrun (bean fields) on the other side of the fence. Another airport had 3400' of asphalt, and handled Otters and a Casa easily. Only had to worry about climb rate on a hot NC day. Key to the safety was being able to run the engines up on the paved runway prior to brake release, a luxury not afforded on gravel or some grass strips. C130 assault operations (you said full range ) use a standard 3000', and handle it quite comfortably. This can be taken shorter with waivers, but you accept the fact that if you lose an engine you are doomed. Don't know about 727's except that they LOVE to hug the runway. KC135/707's, from the same era, also did. Anything under 10,000' of wide concrete was considered an emergency operation. Perhapt you could operate it locally out of a larger airport? you've got enough jumpers to support a 737? :) If you can do it, having a PAVED run up area at the end of the runway would maximize your loads every time. The whole runway does not have to be paved, just a 50' to 100' x 100' pad at the end that you would normally take off from. If you can set your brakes and run the engines up to mostly full power before releasing brakes, you have effectively gained a couple of hundred feet of runway vice a rolling takeoff, which you have to do in gravel and most grass to save your prop tips. How are the neighbors? Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

I have been a member of AOPA since the 80's, and have found them very useful a couple of times. I carry life insurance and commercial (pilot's license) legal insurance through them, and stay informed on aviation matters with their great magazine. They are fantastic advocates of flying, and have been known to help the skydiving cause in their defense of general aviation. I do not know if non-pilots/operators can be members. I don't remember if I had to prove that I had an aircraft or license to qualify. If you are an AIRPLANE pilot or owner, you should DEFINITELY be a member. DZO's take note. Anyone who operates a plane for whatever reason should be a member and take advantage of their services. Jump pilots especially should be members and carry the legal insurance, considering the risks we go to to dump jumpers. Not a member of USPA, so I cannot comment on their services. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

During Air Force Pilot Training back in the 80's, we would spend two weeks learning PLF's from platforms in case we had to eject. Graduation from this stage of training was to take us out to a large open field, hook us up to a tow line, and start running to inflate the 28' canopy behind us. It seemed that I got up a couple of hundred feet, at which point the truck stopped and we came down under canopy to practice what we had learned. Instead of ankle/knee/hip/shoulder though, I did knees/chest/face. As I remember, one or two students suffered twisted ankles in the whole process, despite jump boots. Back in the 70's, the Navy did boat tows for aircrew, again taking us up a couple of hundred feet above San Diego Harbor before we pulled the cable release. We came down in the water and tried not to drown as the canopy covered us. This training also included being towed in harness by the boat, and floating around in the rafts shooting at other rafts with our pen flares. Thus I tell people I have four jumps but six landings. I have always thought that a truck tow would be great on a low cloud day, but ONLY under a round, probably a PC. Ever see a kite take a dive into the ground? With the inexperienced, THAT would be what a steerable square would do. Better the balanced lift of a round. It was a lot of fun. At Hartwood, we also did the PC hooked to a sled on a high wind day. Once we got the PC oriented properly, it really took off. Made some great videos. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Not a Jumper, but a Jump Pilot. After dumping jumpers on weekends for a while, jettisoned the day job and spent two years flying skydivers full time at half the pay. Discovered that DZO's can be liars and thieves, as opposed to my first DZO who was a tough but honest mentor. Discovered again that jumpers are, as a rule, the most wonderful people in the world. They are even better if you enjoy throwing them out. You don't even have to be a jumper to earn the respect of skydivers. Just love what you do. Discovered that I want to jump more, but I worry about those money-earning ankles. Discovered that jumpers leave the sport when their favorite DZ folds. Sad sad sad. Discovered, in a non-jump-flying position right now, where I earn twice the money for only 50% increase in aggravation, that I miss flying jumpers, I miss apre-jump on a Saturday evening, and that I miss saying "DOOR!!!!" STAY with it. You WILL miss your friends. Weather problems? Jump lower. 60 a year? You've earned your beer. Want to give back? Become an instructor. Blue Skies! Pilot Dan Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Where you are, you might also check with Raeford Aviation or Raeford Parachute Center, in Raeford (where else) NC. They might rent one of their Otters for a weekend. Ferrying fees can be negotiable, depending on the number of jumper slots you pay them for. Ferry - Ferry - Ferry Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Non-Turbocharged engines start running out of maximum manifold pressure at 5000' MSL (above sea level). MSL is the thing you should be talking about when you are talking about "engine" altitude. If you are starting at a mile high, you have already run out of maximum MP. Turbo-chargers can help an engine maintain maximum MP above 5000' MSL because they shove more air in at the front end. Down low this can be a problem for the inexperienced pilot because you can overboost the engine. Some systems work to minimize this, but all mechanical systems are subject to failure, and failure of the system can result in popping a cylinder out of the top of the cowling. This is where that experienced pilot we have been talking about in another thread comes in. It's sort've like turbocharging. More money in at the front end in the form of wages (for the experienced) or training (for the non-experienced) can save you oodles of bucks later on. Unless you have one of the larger engine conversions for the 206, you HAVE to have the turbocharged engine for your operations. Otherwise that last 1000' will take as long as the first 9000 did. The key is to operate it properly starting, going up, coming down, and shutdown. If your pilot doesn't have experience in this I (and I am sure other pilots) would be happy to advise. All of the planes I manage have turbochargers and intercoolers, and get a very long TBO due to proper training and maintenance. How much time does your pilot have, and is any of it with a turbocharged engine? Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Your friend might want to contact the AOPA. If you rfriend owns the plane, I certainly hope that he is a member. An airport that wants to limit some aviation-related activities on an airport is not far from putting restrictions on ALL activities on the airport. What affects one affects us all. Many airports will have an AOPA member who has dedicated himself to representing the General Aviation interests on his or her specific field. Hope that they can help! Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

At my first DZ, I was paid $25 per hobbs hour to fly the Twin Bonanza. In a good month I earned over $600. When we got a 182 it was $10 per hour. Both amounts are fair for part time weekend flying. I was also kept well fed by the people in Manifest. Twin Otter pilots might get $15 per load, so a pilot can earn more in a Super Otter than a regular one (higher cycle rate) Full time can vary widely, but is generally low, accepting the proposition that most jump pilots are on their way to bigger things. It can also depend on the additional duties a pilot may have, which vary from DZ to DZ. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, P'Boy. Much as I read your post, I can't find a focus. Basically you seem to be saying that pilots should fly for free. That is wrong in any profession. A professional deserves proper compensation when he/she earns money for someone else, be he a Pilot or a Tandem Master. A professional deserves proper compensation when his skills help someone else, be he/she a Rigger, an Instructor, or a Packer (hint hint). I am sure that you do not pack for free. Why should a pilot, with expensive certifications and at least as much responsibility for his charges as you have, fly for free? And YES DZO's DO cut costs by hiring low-time pilots, skimping on the training and the maintenance. If you haven't seen that then you have not been in the sport very long. And most of the jump pilots I have flown with and trained are not flying to build hours. They fly because they love to fly. They fly jumpers because flying jumpers is fun and exciting and challenging. They usually have far more than the proverbial 300 hours. They deserve proper compensation for their skills and experience, like every professional in skydiving, from the DZO to the packer. And if you DON'T pay that 300 hour jump pilot to compensate him for his skills and expenses, be they training, gas, or food, then you will not be able to keep him long enough to become a 3000 hour jump pilot, who might just save your ass some day with that fancy training and experience he's built. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

You get what you pay for. A DZO who is not willing to properly compensate a professional pilot will also not be willing to invest in a low/non-paid, low time pilot's training. Without proper training and experience, a low-time pilot is not going to be prepared for the inevitable emergencies that arise. I've had hung jumpers, a student's chute deploying in a 182 with the door open (he was sitting next to the door at the time) an engine sieze, no gear extension, not to mention the usual clouds, winds, night, storm fronts, hostile air traffic controllers and hostile DZO's, four ways hanging off a 182 and 10 ways hanging off an Otter. Do you want to put your life in the hands of an amateur or a professional? Pay that professional, or train your new pilot to BE a professional. You'll save money, airplanes, AND lives in the end. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Actually stall fences are used to prevent span-wise loss of lift (departure of the boundary layer) ACROSS the wing. Some early fighters, usually Russian, had as many as three per wing. Even the best airfoil can be helped by VG's, so long as you accept the tradeoff of low-speed control vs high speed drag. Look at the Twin-Otter tail and you will find LOTS of VG's. It is more a matter of philosophy than anything else. I like the idea of dip-sticks on the fuel caps. It would be a great backup for the digital mass-sensing fuel level sensors, like the jets use. The argument of piston vs turbine gets down to cost. Some of the new planes are being certified for both piston and turbine - Malibu Mirage vs the Meridian. With new Cessna 206's going for in excess of $400K, a $250k turbine installation might make purchasing a new aircraft prohibitive. You can get Twin Otters for less than a new 206. Design/certify the airframe to be compatible with several options - piston, diesel, jetprop. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Basically what we want is a 182 on steroids, but something smaller and less expensive than a Caravan. 1. High wing for many reasons including short/soft/gravelly runways. This wing should be a big fat Otter-type wing with stall fences and vortex generators for short-field/high gross weight operations. Also room for lots of fuel for the occaisional ferry flight. 2. Ten place for two four-ways plus videos each/eightway plus two videos/two tandems with one video plus a four-way and video, etc. 3. Piston engine for lower acquisition cost - make it the water-cooled Voyager engine, which eliminates shock cooling in the decent, plus turbo-super charging for continuous climb power to altitude. 4. Ramp tail end a'la C130. High drag, but most of the plane's life will be spent climbing at slow airspeeds, where drag is not that much of a factor, or in the decent where drag is an advantage. Ramp exits - WOO HOO! 5. Large exit door on the side above the struts for door exits. The C130 does this also. If we are going ultimate, a large door on the left side like the Otter, and a small door on the right to use the strut like the C182. 6. Two seats up front in addition to the 10 jumpers. Left seat of course is for the Pilot, or as so many jumpers lovingly call him/her, the "elevator operator". Right seat is for training jump pilots, flying observers (who pay more per ride than up-jumpers) or an ELEVENTH jumper. Yee HAH! 7. Speedbrakes. Let me emphasize this - SPEEDBRAKES!!! On a piston-engine drop ship, they can cut two to three minutes off each run. See the STC on speedbrakes on C182's. 8. Large windows in the passenger compartment. Make the ride up a bit more enjoyable and less claustraphobic for new students. Now, having all of these features, the perfect drop ship has the capability for an alternate life when it is not flying jumpers. Any businessman knows that an airplane sitting on the ground is an expensive paperweight. 1. With the ramp and large open volume, we can do cargo. BIG bulky cargo. Pallets. Containers. Cars. Night cargo, when all good jumpers are sleeping. 2. Big windows designed into the plane, as opposed to added on like the observation windows added expensively onto the Otter - sightseeing, or GREAT benefits to using the plane for short-haul commuter operations in scenic areas. 3. Military for all of the above reasons. (Though if it is not a turbine, most military operations will not look at it...) During thousands of jump runs, a pilot dreams... Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Basically a Twin Otter or a Caravan with a ramp. The ultimate adaptation would have twin booms coming back from the wings, ending in twin vertical tails and a very large elevator located very high. That would prevent the elevator getting washed out by the downwash from the wing, allowing for slow flight. It would also give much more elevator authority, allowing for a wider CG envelope, plus put the tail above jumpers in the event of a malfunction. Give the DHC-6-400R (ramp) a glass nose for pilot spotting, and the biggest PT6's you can hang on the structure. The Twin Otter is already the best when it comes to short field operation (short of a C130) For the Caravan, give it a short field wing. The current Caravan loves it's runway, and is basically unsuitable for fields under 3000' paved. Cessna optomized the wing for cruise. Give it a big fat wing like the Twin Otter. I think that Pratt and Whitney has a 1600hp PT6 that they put in one of the pilot trainers. That would look REAL nice on the nose of a Caravan. LOVE the ideas of the neon seatbelts (since we are going this far, possibly with engagement lights/indicators on the pilot's up front display?), GPS display for the jumpers (maybe with a video briefing system for newbies on the way up?), easy communication between the back and the front, and might I also add a good PA system as part of the ROCKING sound system... Good ventilation for those jumper-induced pollution fronts that seem to form above 5000' MSL? Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Hello Andrew! My apologies, yes I was addressing my remarks to dluv16, but thankyou for your insights into the subject too. You appear to be one of those (many) enlightened Skydivers who respect their pilots. It is not always so, and dealing with skygods is a part of the job at some DZ's. To be fair, some pilots should not be flying skydivers either. It's all about mutual respect. If a pilot can find a DZ to fly for for a summer, he/she will get a heck of a lot of good flying, filled with challenge, and demanding fast thinking. It may only be from Point A to Point A, but it is still a continual challenge, to fly that perfect jump run: Good takeoff, smooth efficient climb, nailing the spot, controlled, swift decent, greaser of a landing and shaving twenty seconds off of your last run. And the beer is colder and more satisfying when a happy jumper buys one for the pilot. I am sure that dluv has looked at the employment section here in the DROPZONE.COM classifieds. I see one or two interesting positions there, but he will have to relocate, and probably spend the summer living in a camper. I've done it. It was great. Other pilot-employment web sites are AVIANATION.COM AND CLIMBTO350.COM. They will occaisionally list jobs requiring low times, like traffic spotter, banner tow, or instructor. Like I said, right place, right time. BTW, Thanks John for your kudos. I remember the day well. It is not every day that a Jump Pilot gets to show his landing skills to a group of jumpers from INSIDE the plane. Wish I could have shown them a REAL decent in an Otter, but of course we had to worry about the Cypresses, AND the Tandems, and ears of course... Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Most of the flying jobs I have gotten, whether it is the military, aerial photography, or flying jumpers, have been a right place/right time thing. However, "Chance favors the prepared!" You have made the effort to get your commercial, which is a great start. Get your instructor certificate and instruct - there are many instructor jobs out there, paying not much more than flying jumpers, but it is someone paying you to burn their gas and use their plane. Raw time counts, and you may get the opportunity to pass on your love of flying to a kindred soul. From my experience and with all due respect, I have seen 6000 hour airline pilots struggle to fly jumpers. Most anyone with less than 500 hours will be on the back-side of the power curve for a while. The DZO who hires a low time pilot cheap or free will be getting what he pays for. He'd better work REAL hard and invest a lot of aircraft time in teaching the pilot all about slow flight, jumper emergencies, dead-stick landings, flying by the numbers, watching your CHT in the decent and not hot dogging things till you have a LOT of flights under your seatbelt. DZ's across the nation are littered with burned out engines, crumpled planes, and premature memorials because a low time pilot walked in and said "I can fly anything", and the DZO, to save a couple of bucks, believed him. Flying jumpers is hard, demanding, precise flying, where you do a complete single pilot flight in half an hour. I saw a 750 hour MEI walk away from it after the first day, because he said it wasn't fun. It is not supposed to BE fun. You are flying someone else's expensive machine, holding the lives of your jumpers in your hands for the time it takes to get high enough to throw them out. Fun comes later, after you know what you are doing, after the jumpers have left the plane, after the beer light goes on. All that being said, good luck! Keep up the search, AND the work hard to be the best pilot you can be. I was continually humbled by the thought that these people are trusting their lives to me. Flying skydivers is some of the best flying there is. I hope I can get back to it. I hope you make it. Blue Skies! Fly Safe! Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

As a DZ Pilot, flying loads all day in the two 182's (the T-Bone was down for maintenance) then getting a ride in a glider from another pilot, then making a static-line jump! Plane landings were all short field greasers. Jump landing was knees-chest-face. Yee Hah! Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Haven't seen it much here, since the focus of DZ.Com is the jumpers, but was interested in getting feedback on working for various drop zones. Have worked fo several in my flying time, and some were obviously better than others. In the interest of saving newly minted pilots, jump instructors, packers, etc from months to years of grief, I thought I'd start it off... Hartwood, Virginia, home of a one engined Twin-Bo, magical times and magical people, and the owner. Treat his machines right, and he'll just grumble a bit when you do a sunset runway check (got to get REAL close to the runway to see if jumpers are there, don't you?) but knowledgable, totally informative, and just plain honest when dealing with people. and the jumpers there aren't too bad either. If they don't happen to get another big plane, where in the area is there a friendly drop zone? Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

When I was flying for a wonderful small dropzone in Northern Virginia, I would occaisionally get tipped (Pilot dude here...) Generally it was a rather classy gent who is an economic advisor to Presidents, regularly quoted in Newsweek, had a hot French jumper-babe for a wife, and had his first son at age 60. In Europe, appearantly, it is traditional to tip your ("He's got your whole life, in his hands...") pilot at the end of the day. Since I was going through a divorce at the time, that tip money was sometimes food for the week. A couple of students also tipped their Elevator Operator when they made A license. Then again, there is ALSO the most wonderful tip a jumper-babe can bestow on her pilot (earning extra altitude for everyone in the process!) by making his day with an unveiling. Men, THIS (Those?) is/are what we are fighting for! Anyway, feel free to tip the people who have made your moments in the air possible. It doesn't have to be a lot, 5$ to each or a six-pac. It lets them know that you appreciated their efforts, and I can guarantee you that that regular tipper got regular altitude "overshoots" OOPS! :) Blue Skies all! Let your Elevator Operator know that you appreciate him/her. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

"Charlie don't jump!!!" Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

#4 (FOUR) wire confirmed. Bush was NOT at the controls. I would imagine the young Commander was playing it safe, not to mention if he had to show the Commander-in-Chief a low approach (all us jumper-dumpers KNOW about low approaches, DON'T we?) better safe than sorry. Ramp strike with Navy-1? NOT an option... Deer in the headlights look sometimes look sometimes? Yes. Honor and decisiveness where it counts? DEFINITELY!!! Wish I was still there... LCDR/Pilot Dan Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

A jumper cruised by my cubicle one day, saw my pictures of planes I flew/fly, and dropped a card on my desk from a local DZ. A year later, needing a weekend job, I stopped up and talked to the DZO. He tried to scare me away with tales of jumping gone astray, including the time a jumper took the tail off a plane he was flying. I ended up flying a T-Bone for him for a couple of years. I even made a bunch of jumps when I finally could train up another jump pilot. Then I made it a full time thing for a couple of years more. Now I drive a desk, and fly the company planes on weekends, but hope to make it out to a SoCal DZ soon to see if they need an extra driver. Jumpers are the best people in the world. My first DZ will be my home forever, and the DZO a very good friend. Someday I will dump jumpers full time again. Till then, if you are going to be a DZO, count your pennnies, cherish your friends, worship your customers, treat your pilots and instructors well, maintain your planes, be honest with yourself, and always tell it straight. You will be a better person than most of the DZO's around. Skydiving operations are non-profit operations, whether they like it or not. But you don't have to lie or cheat people to have a great operation. Good luck. Give me a buzz if you need a driver. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

The old joke is, "How do you make a small FORTUNE in skydiving? Start with a BIG one..." No one ever got rich in skydiving, except for those people who have lots of lucrative government contracts. Opening a drop zone is a great way to lose your shirt (rig/house/friends/dog/wife) The DZO's who are surviving after 10/20/30 years must be doing something right. Do it for fun. Do it because you love the sport and the people. Do it because you are good at it. And remember the DZ's you loved, and the DZO's who created them. Here's to you, Harry. Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

well if it is the $200 burger, hopefully the bosses are going to pay for it after a LONG Photo-phlying day! anyway, looking forward to meeting the legendary Karl, whom many people have warned me about. Hope my cameraman isn't too bored... Blue skies! Fly Safe! God Bless, Pilot Dan Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!

Hey! Thanks! Haven't found a ride yet. Sunday I will probably fly for the DAY job, and may angle it to stop in in the afternoon, driving a plane. Woo Hoo! Weather forecast - restaurant/bar weather Saturday, jumping weather Sunday afternoon. Rock on! Pilot Dan Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!