TKFilmz

PS. PfreeZone, there have been many advances in Premiere as of late yes. Most of them are not the needed engine based fixes but more the integration smoothness to there other programs. The problem with Premiere is that it has always been an app in there studio thats more like"oh yeah we have that style of program too" rather than their focus, which is now more than ever clearly centered around graphics and web delivery.

Fair enough, but I do think its realavent to mention flicks on the shelves as I myself started as an aspiring skydiving filmmaker with no training videos and was able to learn the program without hassle and create great products for any market. Yes Jim and Tim W. are gone as Jim didn't want to move to the east coast and Tim W., well he had no major time with Liquid at all. The important thing is the folks like Markus Duerr and the like continue to develop and build new toys for us out of Germany as they have done as a group since the late 90's under several different company names. Thats the heart of the product. Partick M. remains and he has been the key manager of the line since its aquisition into Pinnacle not Jim. The company has also recently re-structured again, breaking the financial and political boundaries from within by unifying the company and its budget as one again which should produce a different feel from the company and its focuses in the near future. I also have several friends who are key players in the creation of the macromedia based now Apple owned FCP studio who came from FAST in the early dayz and they still cut on Liquid at home. That says something there that marketing can't spin. As far as 24p pulldown needs....yes its true sony, canon, and some panasonic cameras use 3 different styles of pulldown from 60 to achieve 24p...none of which I am as happy with as a true progressive 24p as they tend to have strobe added on top of the traditional judder from true 24p. Anything the editor won't do pulldown-wise is solved for me with no transcoding through lumiere. "My Way" huh...cool...I had to sing that one in a production of cheaper by the dozen many many moons ago...great stuff! My interest in Vegas and what you like is genuine as I do not use it and I too use the right tool for any job, including using my Liquid on my Mac Book Pro in tandem with motion and live type which are also both programs I would love to rave about, but won't in this string. I also think those reading this string would like to here more details about what folks like so they can decide for themselves with the help of additional info from folks like us, what features mean the most to them in there world. The driver is the ultimate tool and yes imovie and windows movie maker can get you there, but just as a Honda can get you from point a to point b with no hassle its sure feels better on the corners drivin a BMW! Especially as you really learn to DRIVE! Respectfully, TK

We have met. I remember you from some industry trade shows showing Sony Vegas. I was showing Liquid. Guess we both have a reason to be partial to our respective programs. I had no idea you were a jumper. I'll start this post by giving you a bit of info on me. I personally own and use Media Composer Soft, FCP, Liquid and since 1998 it has been my profession to understand these programs strengths and short commings on a granular level, working for companies such as FAST, Pinnacle, and Avid as a corporate employee. I now work with the largest Avid rental house in LA. We work with it all and benchmark test them all. Vegas and Premier not included as they are not really a factor in the professional world. Liquid is however, as it is the standard in the CNN world and used at E!, CBS, MTV, PBS, NBA, and more than 200,000 others world wide. I think your info is a bit dated. At NAB last year there were only three things being show on Avid's mainstage, and Avid Liquid was right there not only on the stage, but if you looked at the banner of images surrounding their largest stage ever, the only interface to be seen was...you guessed it...Liquid. So hardly the "Bastard Child" I must respectfully disagree with that statement. The best thing Avid has...DS Nitris, was written by some of the same folks that wrote Liquid. Many naming conventions and tools reflect that fact. DS is the most expensive and most powerfull tool in Avid's arsenal. Like I said the raw data of these apps internal capabilities has been imprinted in my brain over many years. I use an HD100u in 24p which is as true as 23.98 gets and it does the pull down you refer to in RT. This was resolved two revs ago. Vegas did not preceed the other programs mentioned in this string as a "Video" editor. This software was great audio software in its time, but its conversion to the video world has been clunky at best and still smells of its audio history and that still does not compare to DigiDesign or Steinberg as an audio app. There are no posts about background save causing any studders in the machine on Avid's most visited forum..the "Liquid" forum. It is impossible as these saves are 1kb in size and even an ipod can handle that one. The studder you refer to is someone not spending a mere $200 on a GFX card that allows the user with a good proc setup to out perform an Avid Adrenaline costing closer to $15,000 on the same hardware and Liquid does multiple streams of true uncompressed HD where as Adrenaline will only do DNX..a compressed HD. Try multiple streams of HD on any of the fore-mentioned programs using software only. Can't be done like Liquid. I've seen Liquid pull 19 streams in RT through software. Using Liquid with AJA is an affordable and professionally powerfull solution as liquid supports 16bit renders to effect your Uncompressed HD. Liquid has one of the best MTBF ratings in the industry. Thats...Meantime between failure. The time is measured for errors even down to things the user can't feel and the clock is stopped. Liquid on a propper setup avarages 13hrs before failure of any kind. The Grey "Slick Look" will never make a Vegas feel like an Avid, or offer me the peace of mind that my work is protected. Nor will it lead to Vegas making a dent in the pro world as pros enjoy the details in a professional tool. PS. this is the "Old Interface" you are referring to...there are now two interface choices. To say that any of these tools, other than the old world Media Composer, are difficult to wrap your head around is funny as most of the Atari generation would say they now learn more complex programs in the form of a games in a single evening than these programs can dish out education challange-wise. In the end it is the user that determines what tool is best for them. I hold things like mixing a long list of SMPTE standard (not converted) codecs and different frame rates..pal and NTSC all in the same project and on the same timeline in RT with no coversion invaluable in render and coversion time savings. Also, I hold 16bit Secondary and Selective Color Correction, Uncompressed HD in software RT, and Sub-Pixel processing in the highest regards as it directly effects my final output. I also use networked Liquids to gang up on projects and even network render. Using just a simple lan cable between my laptop and desktop allows simultaneous sharing of projects, timelines, and content or put 12 or more systems on a Unity using proxy and high resoultion workflows with my new XDCam HD setup. A feature only just now being released on Vegas. Ridiculous, as they also own and build the hardware as well. Something Liquid has led the pack for more than 3 years. Same goes for MXF. This also points out the next elephant in the room. Sony has tried and failed at over 20 attempts of buliding and supporting NLE software. The newest casualty looks to be XPri a $200,000 cheap rip off of Liquid and Media Composer interface and tools, that has never worked right. Liquid has other networking features similar to those found in the new Avid Interplay..the next gen Avid Network. All at no cost to the user other than the cost of the software. Try that one with FCP at 3,000 a seat plus hardware for less functionality or the outrageous costs of Media Composer on Unity. As for audio I use my Steinberg Nuendo for finishing which connects much tighter than Pro Tools and Media Composer. It blows away anything Sony has and allows me to finish my surround in DTS as well as Dolby full licences. It is so tight I can throw my timeline into Nuendo and even reference and effect my Liquid audio files directly if I choose to. On the media management side only Media Compser outshines Liquid's flexibility aside from it not being able to mount folders as volumes with assigned rights as is one of Liquid's strengths. Many of these features may not be touched by the average user, but the point is it's all there if you want to use it. This only scratches the surface of what is possible with this program. Vegas may be perfect for you, but it won't cut it in my studio. And thats the beauty of choice and preference! Please detail what features are unique to Vegas that makes you feel so loyal, as I am interested in hearing what tools you enjoy the most. I have produced several successfull Skydiving films still selling on shelves today that all owe their creation to Liquid and had a great experience with the software while doing it. I guess thats the ultimate vote of confidence in a skydiving video forum.

RT Engines in Liquid are far superior than the programs you refer to as well as flexibility as you the user grow. Liquid has implemented many features specifically designed to help new users on there path to learning the program. Even an info dialogue that displays more info than the balloons do when hovering over different interface elements. It has over 1000 RT FX that for the most part load into 1 common interface tool. So once you understand the FX tool you need only to become familiar with the FX that load into it. Auto keyframing and "Smart Tools" which are icon based tools that allow the user to, for instance, rotate on X, Y, and Z axis in 3d by simply grabbing the video and twisting. Holding Ctrl, Shft, and Alt to narrow rotation to X,Y, and Z axis. Much easier and more tactile than traditional sliders..although their there too if you like. Liquid was built on Mpg so HDV performance and flexibility is king! So much so that Avid Media Composer was updated with some of these engines. You can background digitize and work on the same machine at the same time. Did I mention it background renders automatically and saves every .30 sec in the background without the user ever feeling it. Another usefull set of tools is the ability to set sequence templates for tandem videos that can just be re-linked with new material and played back out in RT with new clips. This is great for pre-fab tandem videos. Finally it has a "Back Up" utility that allows you to push your project, media, graphics and render files to a drive or burn to disk with a single click. Many more for the Pepsi challenge, too many to mention in this post.

Avid Liquid schools all those programs with way more features and a more professional layout. The list of compatable editing formats and export abilities put it far above the rest. Its easy to get started, but has much more room to grow, especially in the area of HD and Surround.