Cola

Both stories lack

Daren, Love your work, keep it coming. Marty - I'd vote not to update the book its timeless already. What software or site did you use to identify the charlatan?

50 years later what evidentiary value is there in knowing if he had a tic or not. It's past it's usefulness at this point if true.

Don't apologize - I was going for some levity and a bit of humor in my post - but I missed on my delivery, so I'm sorry I was not so overt..... We're good. I think all ideas, notions, conjectures, speculations, and random inputs are welcome here!! Prospector's assertion was interesting. However, I've seen nothing of the 302's or in News print so far attributing any tic to Coops. We can always hold out hope that if we ever receive the handwritten Agent interview notes there may be such a notation. Personally - I've had several episodes of having tics in my life - all being trauma related and stress induced. I think a tic in Coops is certainly within the realm of possible for several reasons. First I have no doubt that Coops has some form of trauma in his life. I'd say that a trauma of some form comes with the territory of a man engaged in such a job. Second a tic as a post traumatic movement in my mind would flair with stress and psychotic episodes. I would certainly believe that Coops was experiencing stress and a psychotic episode before, during and after the event. I don’t think this Job was all about the money. In my mind, Coops was battling some form of inner turmoil surrounding the event. I happen to think that a sense of fantasy, grandeur and his ego compelled him as much as the money. He may have had a need for the money, but to me I want to believe that the job was intoxicating that he was having a manic episode a crisis of self-identity that this job could also fix. I don't believe that these psychotic or manic episodes would rise to the level of medial treatment. That Cooper being the man that he was just sucked it up and went on with life.

Dude.... you brought that up 4 years ago....

McCoy's just not Cooper Somewhere I'd like to imagine that the Real McCoy was so bad in it's assertion of McCoy being Cooper that the Agency was ultimately behind shutting down the book - to save face. - McCoy has his own story and its not Cooper's...

That's a strong resemblance to Frank Sinatra.... IMO

Found a new candidate Catching up on 302's - Here's a fun one Pulled form a paper in Feb 1980 with revisions from an office prankster.

I think rather than spoiling it I'll leave it out there as a riddle for a few days. That way you'll have a nice chuckle in the cleverness of the line. Its nuanced, but I know - that you'll know this.

I'm glad you enjoyed it, I equally enjoy your videos, pls keep-em coming! I know Flo was verified in this instance, but I could not get Flo to Flo, so I used Alice whom at a minimum was attributed and fit the rhyme for that line. Did you pick up on the the clever bit, the nuance of who could be inferred as being the REDACTED.

I sat down to do this but a post to the DZ just did not seem like the right medium to dump a few years and pages of thought. I'll just trickle these out as we go. Anyway, I did not come empty handed and reworked my energy into a Folk Ballad of sorts. Author: Cola Title: The Citizen Sleuth - Ver - Sub R What type of Criminal is D.B. Cooper you ask? He’s not the hardened type He’s not quite that gentleman thief He’s not any bit Himme’s Dirty Rotten Scoundrel He’s not Ckret’s stickup man – He’s neither a loser, an addict, a down and out no-good-bum The take me to Cuba types – that’s all there was then The take me to Cuba type – could that be him What I know of this man - he held a grudge He’s short on forgiveness - not good at letting go He’s ruminating on something - on what – I want to know The take me to Cuba types - were they younger men The take me to Cuba type - they were political then What I know of this man He’s no longer a man - of youthful delusion He’s no longer a man - of political display He’s aware there are limits -on what - could be had that day The take me to Cuba types – were they considerate men The take me to Cuba type - they were swarthy like him What I know of this man He’s neither nasty nor mean He’s respectful of women and never obscene He’s a man of some principals - I think we can glean The take me to Cuba type – were they thoughtful men He’s worried for the crew - should they tire that day He’s sympathetic to the stews – ashamed of easy pay He’s offered some to Tina He’s offered some to Flo He’s offered some to Alice - well her - we don’t really know The take me to Cuba type – were they humored like him He’s laughed at Tina’s quip - of rum and cigars He’s not thinking of mojitos at some Cuban bar He’s giddy as a child - when the ransoms displayed He’s told Alice – come back - its ok The take me to Cuba type – Doesn’t sound like him What I know of this man He’s not short on ambition He’s middle aged - taking up a younger man’s mission What I know of this man He’s in a fix He’s got something hanging over him - only this job - could nix What I know of this man He’s good with fantasy What I know of this man He’s copied from Cini What I know of this man He’s still a mystery The take me to Cuba type – that’s not him at all What type of Criminal - well it’s obvious to me He’s the kind of criminal - REDACTED said he wanted to be

What was it EU use to say in his Daily DB - No one but Cooper gets to decide what the facts are - something along those lines, I kind of love hearing that - thinking that.

You can't ban FLY- He sustained us during some dark times - remember. He's beloved, I took a year off once, maybe he's just taking a breather. But at his level, we need him more than he needs us.

FOIA needs a serious overhaul. I kind of think Fingerprints and DNA require some lateral thinking in perception, but likely not in process. If the circumstances were right - I think there is the possibility these elements could be affirmed. I'd like to dive into the fingerprints and DNA but don't have time to give it 100%. Maybe I'll toss up what I have in a week and build on that slowly.

I would not strike through T&Es DNA method as useless at this stage, if anything this approach will only become more effective with time if not presently effective enough. Whatever happened of the cup from the rubbish-bin? My guess is that it was not even retained as evidence to begin with. Anyone ever see an evidence bag on the cup or memo of it being examined by the Indent division or being destroyed? I think the claim in Tosaw's book was that only the stews fingerprints were pulled form the cups/bottles. Wildcard -imagination on DNA source would be any original sticky lift material used on the 8 cigarette butts. We can always hope that stuffed away in some storage facility is a 52 year old Indent card with lift tape from the butts. Stranger things can happen.

The downside of loving psychoanalysis and esoteric symbology is that questions like these are so much fun but complete time sucks. I have been thinking on these for a few years, but it may take a few more days to find the time to get a reply where I want it. I'll circle back on this question of what type of criminal was Cooper in a few days. Just putting a placeholder down.

Agreed, the document highlights a volatility in LD's life and mental state. No question this document supports LD being a more compelling "skyjacker" suspect overall. However, this document offers enough of a character evaluation of LD for me to emphatically say, in this instance LD was not Dan Cooper. This document actually works to eliminate LD as a good DB suspect on the basis of his mental state. “Nervous disorder, cannot hold down a job, despondent” Wwith this document's characterization of LD, I think its safe to assume that under a NORJACK level of pressure LD would have flailed in some measure. He would have been expected to have had some erratic outburst in the 5 hours there. Coops didn't even drop an F-bomb, he never become nasty of hostile or mentally spent up. If I had to select a parallel, I'd expect LD's mental condition to flair under pressure producing results similar to - Cini. This document does not give me a high degree of confidence in LD having the temperament, composure or self-control to keep it all together like our boy DB. I'm not buying that LD would have been calm, cool and collected for 5 hours. This document indicates LD's not Coops Just my opinion...

Hey now, that is quite a profound notion on the family's origin story/association of LD as DB. Being approached by the Agency is the kind of drama for that time that is too good for a family to not talk about in the open. Maybe it was openly discussed with whispers or with high emotions in front of an impressionable Marla. If the statement is accurate it indicates that LD and DB are not even remotely of the same temperament or composure. LD's been out of the running for a while, but I think this statement ends all further discussion on LD as DB.

It tickles my senses the way you dissect a post, it leaves me with a suspicious feeling of your own intent. You seem to know what it means to place a conflict before the audience, but I can’t help but think that you’re post of late are performing to the cheap seats. I prefer to tug at the threads of hope rather than ball them up.

Math of Insects-I generally like your post and writing style but I think that was a little harsh of a suggestion. I agree the Vortex has had and continues to have it's share of snake oils salesmen. However, this does not mean that crowdfunding or a GofundMe effort to run DNA off Tom's samples would be unethical, fraudulent or not worth attempting. The case is dead in the water without the Citizen Sleuths organizing to push this forward. I think what is better said is that there are stipulations as to who wold administer such a Crowdfunding. Personally, if Tom set up a DNA- GoFundMe I’d kick in, but I’m equally comfortable with one of the Esquires administered such a thing. Tom's samples are the ONLY external evidence currently available to the Vortex. Outside of Tom’s samples there is NO expectation of access to any physical evidence that may contain DNA; the Tie, the shroud lines, Hair sample if even locate-able are all held by the Agency. Further the Tie has the greatest concentration of the unsub's DNA. Even with contamination its the best sample of text to paste snippets together for the reconstruction of a book. Let's be real here, at this point in time where the case stands, with the candidates we have, what is the likelihood the Agency will aid the citizen sleuths in bringing this case to conclusion? Is it in the Agency's interest to provide access to anything with DNA on it…..??? you tell me... Honestly, I can’t even say that even a FOIA request will give us access to the DNA profiles in CODIS or that we could even obtain a copy of the 77+ non-ident fingerprints of this case. At this point, we are even cut off from the packing cards and parachute which are outside of the Agency. ( We should be making a public stink that this holdout is rather dubious.!!) I do not think the Vortex will have any better chance in the next few years of obtaining a DNA profile than what Tom’s samples may or may not have. I'm optimistic that the Citizen Sleuths can bring this case to a conclusion and Tom's samples are potentially our greatest hope in doing that. I like to live thinking there is a bit of chaos to the world and that there are profound things that may come from Tom's samples. Who knows..

Could someone on FB inquire with Tom as to what would be the expectation on a single run. What is being bought for 50K? If the expectation is compelling enough, I think 50K is within the reach of the Vortex community/public to crowdfund- GoFundme. Maybe this may be worth crowdfunding regardless of expectations. If Tom had a good size purse possibly it would aid him in making serious inquires with a number of Labs and locate that Goldilocks "Sleuth Lab" that's eager to share in the glory. There are a few qualifiers/stipulations I'd personally like to see in place before making a contribution, but these are not worth covering this early.

Hey MOT the hoople - have you already forgotten - Money's not a fish! Tom ran that snake oil sales man out of town...

DNA is seductive! I do trust Tom though he "does science and not suspects." Personally Tom's as much of an influence for me being here as Ckret.

Is this still at the idea stage or is Tom formulating a plan?

For me I anticipate Cooper to fall within a reported/recorded range of 5'11 to 6'1. My take from working through the height is that witnesses whom observed him standing were conveying an overall impression that Cooper was tall. To me heights in excess of 5'11 is where I begin to separate average height - from tall. I'll listen to anyone's candidate once, but for me under 5'11 or over 6'1 are culling points.