JAGdb

If the stairs recoil and close significantly without weight on the stairs as has been discussed, how could the pilot see into the plane ?

Doctor Edwards does NOT fail to stir the pot with this one: https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/25459564-d-b-cooper-and-flight-305-the-t-33s

I just came across Arthur Gates Barkley, who attempted a hijacking of a 727 in June of 1970. Could he have been the original inspiration for Cooper ? I have been inclined to think that Cooper was inspired by Cini, but the short time frame between Cini's attempt and Cooper always bother me a little bit. I don't recall seeing this in the vortex, but I am sure it's been discussed somewhere before. Here's a couple story links, what's missing from the Arthur Gates Barkley's story is whether he planned to jump from the plane or not or what his escape plan was. He was a world war 2 vet. https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/06/arthur-gates-brinkley-hijacked-a-jet-because-he-believed-the-irs-owed-him-471-78.html https://www.grunge.com/1149677/arthur-barkley-the-skyjacker-who-blamed-his-crime-on-the-irs/

I consider myself nothing more than a vortex tailgater, I am not even inside the stadium in the upper deck when it comes to any of this so I hope I am not overstepping... Both of you guys are tremendous researchers and investigators, period. Fly, your case knowledge, relentless research abilities and unique insights are an asset to the vortex...it really challenges people to think outside the box and that is critical. You are an extremely tough debater, are you a lawyer also lol ! Regarding the picture you have, my only ask is... is the picture from 11/24/71 ? Similarly, Ryan's legal background, organization/leadership/research skills and sharing of content have raised the level of the vortex "experience" to new levels. I don't have a personal relationship with anyone, but I have always found Ryan to be a gentlemen. You guys have epic debates that would make the Vortex forefathers proud ! My two cents are to continue, but agree to disagree BEFORE it gets too hot or personal. Just keep it above the belt and walk away before it goes too far.... With respect to the sketches, I lean toward sketch B/Grant... - Sketch A seems too plastic, one dimensional (lacks depth), younger and not life like, it doesn't mean that it doesn't have anything to offer. It shows more of a slender/longer face and the thin nose. - Sketch B is more life like, has the olive skin and carries an appearance of appropriate age. It does look a little more, for lack of a better word, threatening where as Bing looks a little more harmless....not sure how to account for this, was Cooper's overall countenance/aura a threatening one ? Because these are frontal images, I don't really see a protruding lip, perhaps a little in sketch B because it has more depth and dimension. When it comes to Flo's Dracula sketch, that one looks like Scarecrow sprinkled some of his hallucinogenic dust on her prior to the drawing.....I have no idea where to go with that one. Another part that I struggle with, witnesses seem to have indicated that Cooper was generally not good looking. But where does he fall on the ugly scale and which sketch captures this? We use Bing Crosby and Carrie Grant as names for the sketches, but both of the actors were fairly handsome men....On a scale of 1 to 10, where did Cooper fall ? I am guessing a 5 ? I do think there is some validity to information gathered closer to the event being more accurate. In this case, sketch B was done in 1972 which isn't that long after the event so maybe this isn't quite as an issue as it might have been if it was done say in 1975 or something. Well, enough overstepping for me, have a great day.

Related to the discussion with Larry Carr on the topic of the case 302s, how many files there are and not having the luxury that is there today of digitizing and creating a searchable data base etc. Didn't the FBI have some other type of "State of the Case/Investigation" document that had a summary of where things stood regarding key pieces of evidence, or that was used to state key findings or key conclusions at a given moment in time ? Things like: - Parachute summary - Lead suspects - Jump time - and so on It seems as though that when a new agent took the case, it was up to them to go and read through the thousands of 302s rather than have some type of summary that the previous agent could hand off so the new agent wouldn't have to start from scratch again.

Great video Ryan. I am kind of scratching my head with this latest barrage of press regarding Gryder and McCoy. Is the FBI not aware of all of these parachute discrepancies that you pointed out ? Why is the FBI not shutting it down ? In some of the latest articles, it is being reported that the FBI took the parachute into custody ? They took McCoy's DNA last year and no comment on the results. Are we missing something ? Here is a an article on the front page of the New York Post: https://nypost.com/2024/11/26/us-news/richard-mccoy-jr-s-kids-claim-hes-db-cooper-after-finding-hidden-parachute/ In this article, it says the FBI may exhume the body ! What really bugs me about this narrative is that the McCoy kids and Dan, to the best of my knowledge, have never provided any specific details of the night such as: - where he jumped and landed ? - how he got out of where he landed ? - what happened to the brief case ? - was the bomb real ? And the press doesn't reach out to the Vortex community for a second opinion ? What's going on here !!! Well, to answer my own question, I suppose that since it's the anniversary time of the year, the press just looks to put fluff articles out there, heck there's already over 200 posts in the comments section of the NY Post article. Happy Thanksgiving !

How much do we read into one particle ? It's interesting because of the Titanium link that already exists from the other particles on the tie, as well as that this partical supposedly only comes from this one place. So the implication is that it is rare and wouldn't be something that can be picked up unless you were in this specific area or were sourcing it from there to your labratory. I imagine you guys are looking into what companies may have experimented and worked with this rock/ore. It will be interesting to see if it can be linked to RemCru etc.

Page 351, all the way at the end.

I had to read this three times when I saw it. From part 97, a day after summary of the hijacking stating the location of the plane at 8:05pm "in the vicinity of Portland" and then at 8:12pm "south of Portland" when the oscillations were observed. Now, this is in direct contradiction to the military/SAGE/FBI flight path and timeline. What's somewhat tantalizing is that it cites the Northwest Flight Log as the reference for this information. I am chalking this up to it being literally the day after the hijacking. But if it is simply an early error, isn't it funny how that error would dove tail so beautifully with the Tena Bar enigma and the challenges to the generally accepted flight path and time line? Has anyone seen this in another 302 before ?

I'm with you that he wanted off of the plane as quickly as possible, and that Mexico City was more than likely a rouse to: 1) get the plane flying south 2) make it hard for the authorities to predict where he would jump and pre mobilize resources for a search (Fly was a very strong contrarian on this, arguing that plan A was indeed Mexico.) Another interesting comment Cooper made, when he was discussing where they were going to go I believe with Tina, he said something to the effect, "you are going to like it", or "you will like where we are going". I can't determine whether it's just a throw away line or to read more into that ? Why would they like going to Mexico ? Or maybe he just meant this would be over sooner than they realize and they will like that.

To me, this has always been a crucial clue/tell, which if taken at face value strongly suggests that he could not have been a pilot.

Yeah, it's what appears to be a very basic touch point with the FBI, I suspect he would have went into all of that had the FBI engaged him.

Well, why not memorialize it here, Ryan, Chris and John mentioned on the recent podcast that the latest FBI vault drop (part 97) contains a letter from Gunther to the FBI telling them about the contact he had from someone claiming to be the hijacker or know hijacker (Clara). The implication here is that Gunther wouldn't falsely mislead the FBI, which would be a crime, if he wasn't truly contacted by someone. So the take away is that this letter from Gunther to the FBI suggests that someone really did reach out to Gunther and that part of the story was not made up.

Hey Cola, his stub is pictured in this article, there may be better pics somewhere else: https://www.the-sun.com/news/9870482/db-cooper-passenger-hijacker-sketch-missed-detail-flight/

I was meaning to ask about the Tina movie's title "Nod if you understand" and whether that was in the 302s anywhere....you covered it in this episode. If it winds up being what Tina says that the Cooper said to her or one of the other stewardesses, that's intriguing in the sense that it makes me wonder what else we might get from the movie.

"Sorry Mr. Cooper, the computers are down, we have no ticket to sell you, please have a seat, things should be back up in 15 hours or so." I work in IT, it was a harrowing day. Our entire infrastructure depends on a densely connected network of computers that are in some sense too tightly connected and bound together by standardized levels of software and centralization (cloud). While this provides for amazing efficiency, it is also prone to this type of event. At the end of the day, this was human error--which is nothing new, a bad line of code and failure to test and identify it prior to mass roll out. It's a head scratcher for me as to how this wasn't caught. It's definitely a wake up call. The mission of Crowdstrike is to prevent this type of incident, thus the irony is quite thick. I'm sure there will be a lot of changes to come out of this, but the simplest measure is to STOP pushing these mandatory updates out in mass scale, do it in a more measured manner.

I have a to laugh a little, according to at least two tie DNA tests, Tom Kaye is Cooper. So many people have handled and been in proximity of the tie, yet DNA tests keep pointing to Kaye, can Tom provide a palm print please ? I mean, I have to believe that Tom took all kinds of precautions, rubber gloves, face masks and STILL he keeps showing up on these little stubs ? Ughhh...makes me wonder, although DNA is probably the best way to identify Cooper, whether there is anything viable left on that dammed thing from 11/24/71. Fingers crossed...

I'm not on FB either, but below is the last YOUTUBE video he did about a week and a half ago . He said he wasn't ready to name him yet. But maybe he has on FB?

All good on this, it's a good discussion. It's hard putting it all back together 50+ years later. It just comes down to whether or not he made an amateur type of mistake. If so, that could be used as part of the profile when looking at a particular suspect. Anyway, here is the latest from Dr. Edwards....he's on the hunt for those Air America jumpers: https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/24695578-d-b-cooper-and-flight-305-last-name-unknown

That's a good point, I hadn't thought of that i.e. by leaving the air stairs in place, you left an entry point open for a possible law enforcement attack. What I was thinking of is related to the sequence of Tina retrieving the money and chutes. While I am not sure if this is agree upon as cannon, it has been discussed that Copper failed to keep human collateral when he allowed Tina to go get the back packs. The passengers and other stewardesses were already gone I believe. So he was alone by himself, which is a careless and fatal game over mistake. It's almost as bad a mistake as Cini putting the axe down for the pilots to pick it up and beat the snot out him. In theory, Tina and the pilots could have simply bugged out and left him on the plane for the police to take him down one way or another. Again, I am not sure if this has been 100% validated or not.

I like this profile you describe as well, the smart goon so to speak. It allows for someone who had experience and operational knowledge, which can explain why Cooper was generally calm and poised, and executed what appears to have been a relatively well thought out plan. But since he wasn't necessarily a classically trained spook, it also allows for someone who was capable of making a mistake, which he may have made while on the ground at Seatac. If I am not mistaken, Dr. Edwards last DB Cooper related good reads post indicated that he is also trying to drill into the identity of the people involved in Civil/Southern Air Transport and Air America programs.

Always enjoy Bruce, as well as these videos you are doing Ryan. I just find the narrative that the CIA/Deep State had to orchestrate this DB Copper Hijacking for the sole purpose to get more air port security a little silly, i.e. metal detectors in air ports or requiring more information from passengers to fly. Why on earth would they need to do this ? There were already so many hijackings, wouldn't those already be enough reason ? The government enacts laws and strong arms private industry all the time without the need for covert operations as trigger point.

I'm a little behind, so catching up on some of these episodes now... First let me say that Sergeant Major Mike Vining is a class act. Not only is he an explosives expert, but he also had sky diving background, you couldn't ask for more as a guest. He tended to drift off the topic of the bomb a little, Darren did a nice job trying to refocus him. He did leave me wanting a little more..in particular, I wish he spoke a little more on whether the description of the bomb indicated the presence of the blasting caps he kept bringing up or not. (I guess it didn't) I was a little shocked when he said he knew people who jumped out of 727s, I was hoping he was going to go into that a little more. How could he possibly have known ? Was he saying he was familiar with the Air America stuff, I thought that was all top secret ? Before I listened to this episode, (I actually listened to it 3 times), I was of the belief that: - The bomb was most likely fake - That Cooper had some military background in explosives After listening, based on what Sergeant Mike said about the size of the battery, the lack of "dynamite" wording on the sticks, and his comments on the seemingly amateur and senseless trigger mechanism of having to touch two wires together, I am still in "the bomb was fake" camp. But I no longer feel that Cooper had a background in explosives. I think it was a bluff 100% of the way, he only needed to convince the stewardesses and the brief case bomb may have been right out hollywood central casting for this purpose. I think Fly posted about the movie "Airport" from 1970 where there was a brief case bomb, maybe that was an inspiration? On a side note, was the question of whether he was suicidal or not and how that is tied to the question of the bomb being real or fake. I don't necessarily think one implies the other. While he did say that he wouldn't be taken alive, this could have been a bluff as well. But even if it was not, I don't get the vibe that he was willing to take everyone with him. Maybe he had a pistol in the bag or even the brief case that he would have used to go down swinging so to speak. Anyway, all conjecture and subjective on my part. Question to Oldmiss, were any of the other copy cats suicidal or willing to actually take the plane and the passengers out if they didn't get their money ?

Great points, I love the Midwest dust bowl angle and Johnny Cash suggestion is good one.

For tongue and cheek, I'll throw out Leaving on Jet Plane by John Denver.... But as far as what music he listened to, it was a little tougher than I thought. I was trying to figure out what music he was listening to as he was coming of age. For me, I think I was set in my musical ways or taste by my late 20s. If he was born roughly between 1920 and 1930, that puts him in his mid late 20s roughly between 1945 to 1955ish time frame. So that kind of spans a dramatic shift in music from the end of the big band and crooner era into the early rock and roll era. In the end, I am going to go with the style of music that was more popular when he was younger man. I think I can kind of see him listening to some "Old Blue Eyes"....I'm going with Sinatra. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if before he left for "the job", he dropped the needle on a little "My Way" ! He certainly did this job his way.... By the way, this is all in good fun, I know he was a criminal and I don't mean to romanticize him like a hero or something. Maybe some day we will find out just who he was !!!