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Dudeman, just a quick follow up to your above thoughts. With respect to pilot bailout rigs, does this mean that only a pilot or the member of an air crew would have had experience with this type of parachute ? Is there anything unique or tricky about putting on or using one of these as compared to a different type of chute ? For example, if your only experience was as a paratrooper/static line jumper, would you be able to look at this and put it on with ease ? If you were preparing for this hijacking at one of these sky diving facilities like Lake Elsinore etc, would you have ever been presented with this type of chute ? Tina says that he seemed to have put it on without any issue, like he had done it or seen it before. He also rejected the instructions -- so can we read anything into this ? Or is a parachute just a parachute, self explanatory and no big deal to put it on D-Rings not withstanding? Also, can we deduce that he was expecting a rig with D-Rings, otherwise he wouldn't have asked for "front' reserves. So if he had military experience, what type of rig would he have expected ? (I presume that the static line chutes had D-Rings correct ?) Thanks !
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that's right, wasn't he like hanging off the stairs or something ? I know he said he was spinning out of control on the free fall....
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Hahneman had quite an adventure, he forced the plane to land again after he didn't like the $100 denomination and then he had to switch planes later when there was some type of hydraulic issue I believe. And he was still able to pull it off and land safely with the money -- over the jungle right ? Whether he was Cooper or not, he seems to have had the most challenging circumstances of all the 727 hijackers.
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Yeah, arguing over which air port, large vs small, is interesting. What would his objection be to a larger air port--more risk due to the ability of authorities to mobilize faster/better ? Would SeaTac fall into that larger air port category ? I know there has been some speculation that maybe he wanted to stay away from any coastal cities as to maybe not get dumped out over the ocean. Now, if he decided to abort his original plan of going to Mexico, why jump where he did (somewhere in Washington), and not wait a little longer to get farther south and into a better weather and hence better jump situation ? Technically, he had the whole area from Seattle to Reno to pick a better jump off point, to the extent that he could reasonably discern from standing out over the aft stairs. Lastly, what would be the plan if the plane did cross the boarder to Mexico? He must have had some type of plan because if he jumped anywhere, he could wind up in the middle of a desert. This would be interesting to ponder...he had to have had a target area right ?
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Thanks, yeah I have always been in the camp that he just wanted to the plane to head south. But you make a strong case to consider for really wanting to jump in Mexico, I am certainly not closed to it. My biggest question to it is why he didn't pick an originating flight closer to the boarder if he wanted to go to Mexico.
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Not to harp on or read too much into any one sentence, but I do find the statement from the hijacker to Tina where he said something to the effect "you will like where we are going" interesting. Is this a throw away line or is it worth pondering a little more for why the hijacker would think Tina/crew would like where they were going ? Could it mean, don't worry, I will be gone and this will be over for you soon ? Could it mean, you will enjoy Mexico/Mexico City ? Or anything else ?
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I believe it's based on the last paragraph which cites the location of the plane at time 2018 PST being 23 Nautical Miles south of the PDX/BG VORTAC. Then he traces back the plane speed of ~3 miles per minute ( 3 Miles x 5 minutes) and that puts the plane approximately over the Colombia. The position of the plane at 2018 is based on McClleland's log entry on the night of the hijacking. Some of the other NWA personnel had a different time stamp of 2022 PST. So that's a 4 minute difference which would be a ~12 mile location swing. So Edward's is going with the 2018 PST time stamp and location. The question is which log entry is correct. This isn't new, it's in his book also. What's kind of new now is that the NWA personnel taking the logs/notes have been identified and he is wrapping some of the communication and it's timing into it. : At 2018 PST +/- 30 seconds, Flight 305 passes the position 23 nautical miles south of PDX (the Battle Ground VORTAC) on the Victor 23 airway. It is now south of Lake Oswego and approximately abeam Tualatin, Oregon. Backtracking from this point at three nautical miles per minute: Flight 305 begins its crossing of the Columbia at approximately 2013 PST.
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They probably wouldn't have used Luminol on the tie back then since they weren't looking for blood. But I wonder if trying it now on the tie could potentially reveal traces of blood? Sputum and/or urine can carry blood. It's possible that it may have been carried to the tie by sneezing or even urine droplets that splash up while going to the bathroom? It's a long shot...and I don't know if Luminol can pick up blood that is 50+ years old.
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Braden is a better suspect than many of the others. There was a time when I thought Cooper may have been special forces, particularly because of his calm/confident demeanor and execution. But I have kind changed my mind over time. While Cooper did a solid overall job in terms of pulling this off, he made some mistakes that he got away with that would make me thing Braden/SFs might not have. One of the bigger mistakes, I believe while on the ground at SeaTac, after getting the money/chutes, there was some point where he allowed himself to be abandoned on the plan with no "collateral" or hedge against authorities. I think Tina could have left the plane with the pilots, the other two stewardesses were already off. That seems like a major blunder. SFs can make mistakes too, but this one just sort of pushes me to a non Braden type guy.
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I tend to agree with most of the sentiment here that the hijacker had primarily military jump experience as opposed to recreational based jump experience only. Can we read or deduce anything else into how he looked "comfortable" putting on a chute that was a pilot bail out rig ? If he was a recreational sky diver only, would someone fitting that profile be comfortable putting on that bail out rig so easily versus a civilian luxury rig ? Is there anything different when it comes to putting on a pilot bail out rig versus a civilian "luxury" rig or is it basically the same ? Put another way, if you never used one before, and were only familiar with luxury civilian rigs, would you be confused at all with putting this type of rig on ? Also, would only someone with pilot experience be comfortable with it ? i.e. would regular paratroopers have used the same type of rig on those static line jumps ?
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After the hijacking, the FBI had the unused back chute in custody, this is the one that was eventually returned to Hayden, at his request and ultimately donated to WSHM. While they had that back chute in evidence, did they have Cossey come in and physically inspect it ? If so, it wouldn't have matched his prior descriptions to the FBI right ?
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The chute is "actionable" evidence, so why not bring it to the FBI who said they would still review actionable evidence. Now, the next question is, given the confusion over the chutes, would the FBI even be in a position to accurately determine it's veracity or authenticity ?
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Something isn't quite adding up for me regarding the DNA sample. The fact that it's a partial, isn't ideal, but be that as it may, it's better than nothing. And in the situation that this case was and is still in, I'm all for examining every rabbit hole and adding as many pieces of data as possible to the tool kit. That being said, we all know that there is no guarantee it's the hijacker's DNA. Maybe...maybe not. In addition, retired agent LC diminished the value of the DNA on the Cooper Vortex episode. Yet, the FBI used it to rule suspects out from 2002 to ~2016 ? How ? Why if the above is true ? By all means, use it and compare it to suspects in the chance that if one matches, you may have found the hijacker. But should it have been used to rule suspects out when it could have been the JC Penny's stock boy's DNA ?
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Over Thanksgiving, I was able to sit down and talk with my father about his time at Boeing, as well as General Dynamics, in the 70s. I asked him if he still had a tie.....said he was going to check, wouldn't hold my breath on this but if anything comes of it I will post it to the board to see if it would be useful. I believe that Fly has already sent another tie to TK as another data point, just waiting on the broken SEM part or something, hope it's not coming from China !
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almost seemed like the video was more focused on going after the FBI agent then proving McCoy was Cooper...
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So Dan has presented his final check mate evidence as: 1) The hijacker's alleged parachute (would need to have this looked at by FBI or other SMEs) 2) McCoy and his parachute instructor's log books (this is just data, circumstantial only in and of itself) He's got to know that isn't enough right ?
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Not sure if anyone posted this already, but this is Dr. Edwards latest podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/1-way-ticket-to-seattle-200-grand-please-the-db-cooper-story/id1573321645?i=1000587413283 At the ~1:26:10 mark, he references being asked by a "researcher" to come to America and support his suspect. Was probably taking about Gryder...
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Happy Thanksgiving, wishing you all good vibes and blessings. Here's the weather 51 years to the date: https://weather.com/weather/today/l/a98c381daaa0619a6a851824227104cef1fde6d16236a2a8cb1d8385f9bcef0d DB, I mean Dan, would have had it a little easier if he jumped tonight.
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For me, I'm waiting to hear more details about his life and his state of affairs at the time of the hijacking. Was he in debt ? Was he employed ? Was he part of that lay off ? Divorce/marital problems ?
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I am in no way, shape or form a lawyer, but the link below sounds like Remcru had a law suit against one of Vordahl's Titanium alloy patents ? This type of stuff is probably somewhat common. https://casetext.com/case/rem-cru-titanium-v-watson-2 This is a civil action brought by the plaintiff, Rem-Cru Titanium, Inc., under Title 35, Section 145 of the United States Code, to authorize the defendant, Commissioner of Patents, to issue to the plaintiff Letters Patent containing Claims 16 to 33, inclusive, of application Serial No. 229,143, entitled "Processing of Alloys", filed by Milton B. Vordahl on May 31, 1951.
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Don't move on Parrot, even though you are a Cowboys fan and a mortal enemy in that sense (see you Thanksgiving night !), your presence would be missed ! :-)
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It seems that most of the media picking up on it are local or regional affiliates that are hungry for a "soft" story with the anniversary approaching, not to mention Coopercon. These aren't really investigative reporters so to speak. EU being the face of Coopercon who has some TV notoriety dove tails nicely into the need for the local media to put out an annual story from a somewhat "vetted" figure. They need a story, EU/Coopercon needs the press and it is what it is I guess...that's just my two cents as to why they run with it without much scrutiny. Regarding the alloy or no alloy and what Tom Kay has said. I think pretty much everyone respects the overall work that Tom has done, he's doing this all pro bono. He is prudent and keeps his cards VERY close to his chest, only shares public information when he has something backed with data, he doesn't really share publicly what he is or isn't working on regarding this case. But some people have communication channels to him and have asked him to comment and clarify from time to time. I did a cursory search on the dbcooperforum and couldn't find any comment from Tom on this topic. If Tom has made statements that he isn't convinced that the TiSb particle is an alloy, I wonder why it is that he has not been able to draw a definitive conclusion on this question--as Georger mentioned, he has a community that he can draw on. I would think that the right scientist could determine in relative short order if this is an alloy or not, but perhaps it is more complicated than I am giving it credit for. Maybe some more information will come out at Coopercon ? Tom is there and perhaps "the" main headliner, (I have read reports that Larry Carr will not be in attendance). While I am not holding my breath for any videos to be made public, hopefully anything new and interesting will start trickling out...
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I believe suspect Jack Bryant Coffelt lived in Hawaii at the end of his life and I think died there circa 1975 time frame. I think I remember the 302s discussing that and maybe even talking to his widow out there, but my memory is pretty fuzzy at the moment.
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A few weeks back, there were some posts around the Elsinore "incident" where LC had stated that he had an encounter with someone who fit the hijacker's description. In the encounter, the individual was asking questions pertaining to jumping from a commercial air liner. And then that was kind of dove tailed into the Gunther book and his story where it states that the hijacker went to a jump center in California... So that had me thinking about one of my first posts where I had come across the 302 below. It states that someone on a NWO flight on 11/23/71, (one day prior to the hijacking), was asking the same types of questions to people/crew on this flight. What are the odds that IF this is a true event, it wasn't related to the next day's hijacking ? Was it legit ? The details of the alleged flight seem to be redacted i.e. flight number, origination/destination. I wonder did the FBI follow this lead ? Does anyone have any more insight to this 302? Thanks !
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To me, I can see a little bit of the KK5-1 resemblance of the nose to chin section. But definitely no Ben Gazzara there lol !