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Hi B-dog To open your parachute before you hit the ground and hurt yourself really bad. Also The airplane may lose power on your ride to altitude and you may have to exit the acft befor it hits the gound. There also may be other jumpers on the plane that wil have to wait to exit until you stop blocking the door. You will need to exit without hesitation once the word is given by the pilot/person in charge to leave. The longer you wait to exit the less time/altitude the jumpers behind you will have. The Hop and Pop will help you gain confidence in different exit altitudes, so you will split without hesitation during a emergency. Due to time constraints H&P's are not taught during AFF. Don't worry different DZ's have different criteria or it might be a liscense requirement or both BTW MR Stokes just set a world recod for performing 640 H&P's from 2100 ft in 24 hr's. If he can do that

QuoteDo you honestly believe that the Federal Government wishes to allow the Iraqis to govern their own country? The true goal is to get a stronghold in the M.E. and a firm grasp on oil. This has little to do with democracy. If the Iraqis decide that they would rather elect a government that sways towards a union with Iran (or anyother country that the U.S. has deemed to be evil) the U.S. would balk! Much as they balked after the Palestinian election. The only government that will be allowed is one that will bend to the will of the Federal Government. So far this new government is partialy inline. Your giving the feds to much credit for knowing what they want ot how to get it. Without helpful guidence provided by lobbiests, special interest groups, industrial/academic experts, and other well intended groups the feds could be replaced by a head of lettuce. GW was elected to be president based on some type of broad political agenda & election promises, but now that he's in office he has to rely on his "team" to help him make policy decisions, slogans, speech's, find his desk etc. GW et al will be in office for another 2+ yr's and we can't do squat. To bad Suck it up with any luck we'll have "won the war in iraq and diverted our resources to other hot spots. IMO the question should be What can we do to insure that the team advising whoever the next president is, that they respresent the interest of the voters, commen sense, etc and not special interest groups. Otherwise our elected officals will continue to make poor decisions based on poor info. I don't think it's possiable to wean the feds from using the team appoach for decision makeing whatever political party is in power, the overall end result will be the same. FUBAR Maybe we can disuss this in 10 yr's and disccuss how we got to where we're at, with the benifit of hindsight R.I.P.

I don't know who I voted for or even care

Bingo we have a winner

Now she tells us If we meet again I'll look you up when I'm ready for my Nap R.I.P.

Lawyer been around politics to long. Shady deals (commodity futures etc) R.I.P.

Hi B_T If I was a dealer I would do my best to get you exactly the best gear ever made, at the best price, in the shortest time. We could also arrange to set you up some tunnel time,coaches, babes and brew. You've earned every penny you got and deserve nothing but the best, now. You'll have a great time and your pockets will be forever flame proof. Trust me To bad we're not a dealer and don't have anthng to sell. If i was a DZO, dealer, coach, babe etc I would be getting in touch to see if I couldn't help you out. Enjoy R.I.P.

I can't speak for t's parents

OOPS there goes another carreer diplomats carreer down the right wing toilet. Since he is not with them.. he must be against them IMO argueing over anthing thar was reported in the media is a waste of time. Furthermore arueing over what a politician, career diplomat says is a waste of time. Some people know what the truth is regardless of the BS propaganda. If people want to believe what they read in the press or what their told by their elected officals Fine with me

If GW is saying that then "Victory" may be at hand, and there is a exit plan thats still a secret. "Bring it on" and bring the troops home.

Bill Good luck, I'm sure you'll enjoy the event where ever you team places even if it's not first place, and if it is first even better One important question Does your team have the unfair advantage of haveing the use of a team room R.I.P.

Exactly. It's worth noting that many times the lessons learned are only tangentially related to the actual incident. Discussion brings up other issues that may be poorly understood by many jumpers. Though not perfect, I think Incidents is a truely excellent forum. Hi Dino I just want to make myself clear the incident forum is a life saver. Some people paid a very high price to get on te forum, and the lessons learned from the factual info, discussions, safety procedures etc is priceless. I'm sure the lessons learned from the incident forum have and will continue to save lives for those that are willing to learn from the factual info in the incident forum. The reason I started the thread was because the quotes and links to the media which IMO add very little value from a learning standpoint. The press reports from Bridge day are the latest example of misinformation Vs the info coming from the factual info provided by the base jumpers that were there. I'm not a Mod, this isn't my websight I'm only a guest

We visited Perrisonce about 20 yr's ago didn't know anyone and this Big guy with a white beard introduced himself as Bear and asked if we wanted to get on a load with him and his buds. I've never forgotten the one tiime we met bear "back in the day", his old time atitude to new folks on the DZ and still remember the guy with a smile on my face. Ditto on what Bozo said. bear I'll be looking you up when I go to the other side.

Good one Dude LMAO The closest we got to seeing someone upchucking in the plane was a very nice pregnent women who was having a bad case of morning sickness. We were when she started to breath into her glove. Sooo lesson learned wear goloves without holes in them.

The citizens and bussinesses in Quincy couldn't keep their elected officals from incouraging the WFFC to move. But the WFFC still exists in another place and the same thing will happen with Mr Hills operation it will be bigger and better than Eloy (Just like Eloy is better than coolidge was) if he chooses to stay in the skydiving business. On a very positive note there even may be enough team rooms for all the teams competing in the future nationals. So everyone can compete on a level playing field. R.I.P.

Why would we do that when we could claim "Mission accomplished", declare ourselves victors, and bring all the troops home ASAP? Blues, Dave Bingo we have a winner

Source Aren't they likely to poke themselves in the eye with their pencils? Ban 'em! Let try thig again When kids in schoold are playing tag ball how are they supervised? Is playing tag ball optional? Y N Are the kids split into groups by gender? Y N Are they split into groups by size? Y N Are some kids unfairly targeted because of their size and popularity? Y N If there is a problem whats the solution to even the playing field? Why hasn't it been done before now? Over the last ten years we've seen a rash of school shootings. Are the shooters the populer kids from the A team or are they the ones that have been bullied, feel like they have nothing to lose and want to get even? Why is this cycle of violence continueing now that we know what bullying can lead to? I don't have any kids and barely remember what these games are like any parents care to comment about how their kids feel about playing tag ball? Or rideing home on a school bus sitting next to a bully? Enjoy

Hi BB How long has the current city manager been in charge? Have you all checked his resume? The city manager of Tacoma Wa. after 15 -20 yr's was fired by the city council. He found another city manager job in another state in spite of his being a dumbass that resulted in multi million dollar lawsuits which the city lost and major turnover at the highest level of the PD. This sounds like a replay of the city manager of Tacoma. Bet there's a lot more to the story than is available to the public The airport repairs aren't being done because the airport doesn't have a manager When the city starts informing bussiness's about major decisions that will affect their operations via a phone call thats a BS attempt at a CYA. (He said she said. ) I'm confused are the mayor and the city manager in bed together? ot are they the same person? There's a lot of stuff going on in little sleepy Eloy that doesn't pass the smell test. We thought it was a little stange with the city playing the zoneing card to limit the number of team rooms for the nationals. R.I.P.

I know ALL about that sort of stuff. However.........THIS IS NOT THE US GOVT I WANT A CONTRACT WITH. It's a foreign govt so things are going to be a LITTLE differen't. Sounds like you may need a Partner thats a citizen of that country that know the local laws and customs. Someone you can trust Wasn't their a problem with the security contractor at baghdad intl airport not getting paid and threatening to walk off the job R.I.P. R.I.P.

Haven't read all the responses so this might be a repeat. 1) Don't have unrealistic expectations 2) Be positive 3) try using the english language (big words) to your advantage to keep people from being offended (Ass hole vs annal aperture) 4) don't worry be happy!! 5) can't win them all R.I.P.

Hi 29 talk with vinny he sounds like he understands the system. The gov't puts out a RFP (request for proposals) that basically says something like we want to do this and require these folks to do it. So the the first thing you need to do is get a copy of the RFP. You then respond with your proposal that says We have all this experience, training awards etc doing (whatever their asking for). We also have a team of these people (and their qualifications) that will be working for us. The qualifications need to match the skills requested in the RFP (don't leave anything out) don't worry about your price until your chosen it's negotiated based on labor costs, indirect costs overhead and profit. The contract is written by the gov't all you have to do is read it agree with it figure out how much it's going to cost you and sign it. We used to be on a review board for A/E services for the Gov't (other duties as assigned) and come up with a short list (3) out of 20-30 proposals. 5 people sitting around a table , no talking, read the RFP and the proposals and score them. took us about 5 mins to rate ea proposal. The system actually worked 5 people reading the same stuff would score the top three and we usually picked the same ones without any discussion. If your competing against the big boys like blackwater et al you've got a big challenge and the day to day paperwork will be a PIA. so work your grapevine for people who have already done similar type of work. Got a copy of the RFP you want us to look at? Trust me I used to work for the Gov't and I'm here to help you. R.I.P.

Hi BB Thanks for the explanation. IMO there's one slight misconception in your post The consultant is a hired gun, he was hired and paid by the mayor. He did exactly what he was told to do. This isn't incompetence it's being a "pro" just like the oldest profession. I'm sure if he was hired by Mr Hill his conclusion would have been completely different. Remember a lot of pros said their were WMD's in Iraq to justify a FUBAR As long as the consultant speads his legs whenever he's asked to by the city he'll continue to do business with the city.However eloy is a very small fish so the consultant is a low ball rookie or a worn out ho. If the consultant got paid $20k for his report I'm guessing it was a cut copy and paste of a previous study and took less than 100 people hrs to produce. The report don't mean nothing. Thats why we have contracts

Hi Folks In the spirit of cooperation I'm possting this in the skydiving forum rather than the incident forum. Whats the point of posting links and quotes from news sources when there's a incident? The news reports are written by reporters who don't have a clue about what their reporting when it involves a skydiving incident. Wouldn't it make more sense to wait for someone from the DZ to report the facts and cut out the BS. We've recently seen some incidents that contain links to three different news reports that don't say squat about the real deal. For those that feel the need for speed (to post) the say nothing news reports Post on R.I.P. R.I.P. R.I.P.

Schools have a long history of ignoring bullying in school and on the school bus. Whats the difference between a friendly game of tag ball and having a group of kids concentrating their efforts on a unpopuler student? A friendly game of tag ball everyone is evenly matched and everyone has a good time