crozby
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Everything posted by crozby
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I didn't 'blow over' that statement of yours, I absorbed it like I absorbed your latest post. I asked for your opinion and you've given it, and I'm grateful. Effort spent trying to understand opposing points of view is surely more valuable than effort spent slapping them down. Wouldn't you agree? If we were on a military forum I think you'd be correct in lambasting contributors without a military background, but this is a skydiving forum and that attitude is out of place here and is more than a little condescending given that you have no idea of my background (at least I don't think you do!). You're simply wrong when you assume that my concern over events in Iraq means I don't like the US. Equating the questioning of the actions of a state with disloyalty to said state belongs back in the past behind the iron curtain, not here and now in a democratic society.
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For crying out loud will someone move this blatantly inoffensive thread to The Bonfire before people here start cuddling one another!!
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I'd avenge a friends death too, but its not the right thing to do.
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And that in your view would justify the killing of the Iraqi?
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I was referring to the CNN footage posted by metalslug. There are two opposing views being expressed on this site: those that think it portrays the shooting of an injured Iraqi, and those that think that the US troops were justified in shooting the Iraqi which makes it ok. Please, please, please would someone who thinks it is ok explain it to us what could be happening in addition to the footage that we all can see that would make it a justifiable killing.
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The guy lying on the ground wasn't carrying an RPG when he was killed - we could see that. Nor was there a rifle there. Being immobile on his back makes me think he wasn't about to set a bomb off either. So give us a hypothetical bigger picture that would justify what we see on the CNN footage, which I think we can all agree clearly shows an injuered immobile Iraqi being shot dead.
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We're all making assumptions based on a 30 second CNN clip so don't have the context of the situation. The problem is that for many people, myself included, the video appears to clearly show an Iraqi being killed unnecessarily. But maybe it was justified. Perhaps someone who sees it differently could tell us the kind of thing that might have been taking place that would justify the action on the video.
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I'm touched by the energy you put into that personal attack! Now I've been Ron'ned I feel like a real member of DZ.com.
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Chill man, and re-read my post - I wasn't even having a pop at your servicemen, so that 'armchair general' line doesn't wash here. It seems to me from posts here that some contributors can justify whatever their fellow countrymen do and I find that interesting. From a foreigners point of view the contrast between the outrage shown by the U.S government for any action against US troops v.s. the ease with which any and all Iraqi deaths are excused sometimes gives the impression that a US life is considered to be worth so much more than an Iraqi life. And that just seems an odd attiture for a God-fearing Christian nation to be giving off. Wouldn't you agree?
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I admire the way that you guys can justify whatever your soldiers do, no matter how distasteful or against international law it may be. Just curious: If after initially wounding the Iraqi who dropped the tube, the crew had landed the helecopter, fucked the dying guy up the arse, murdered him, pissed on his corpes and then flown off, how would you rationalise that?
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Bill your ears must have burnt with the collective "Uzbeki-what?" that this post generated. It is excellent news that the US government has finally stopped providing financial aid to a brutal regime accused of crimes against humanity. Also, today: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3752363.stm I hope at some point the Bush administration or whoever succeeds them realises that it is going to be difficult to be taken seriously as a moral authority when they are turning a blind-eye to the activities of regimes simply because they rent them land for air-bases.
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Not quite: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3748595.stm
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When someone threatened to murder her her children she got cold feet. Understandably in my view.
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You're right that prison abuse most likely occurs to a greater or lesser extent in most if not all countries. In the UK we currently have just over 75,000 prisoners. The fact that there are only a handfull of reports of prisoner abuse and they are presented almost exclusively on questionable websites makes me think we don't have a problem like the USA does. In the USA there are many more private companies running prisons than there are in the UK. Maybe that is a contributing factor and maybe it is in Iraq too. Private prisons a-la-USA are on the increase here so it will be interesting?!? to see if we also have an increasing abuse problem too. The issue raised in the Guardian is bad. Its crap justice that a man made insane by incarceration should be forced to remain there because his insanity makes him a danger to the public. We have plenty of low/high security mental facilities here that could accommodate him.
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I think you should watch the movie. You might find that you really like it.
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I checked out your link and it seems to me you just latched on to one of the first websites you googled with a search like "prisoner abuse uk statistics". The organisation behind the website also claims that 1 in 4 British men and 1 in 3 British women have been the victims of sexual abuse by the time they reach 18. I can't find any other sites backing up that claim and I would put money on it being bullshit. Additionally SurvivorsSwindon don't provide sources for many of their claims and they also refuse to discuss where they get their underlying data from. Not exactly transparent. I can see how the "Well everyone is at it" line might make you feel more comfortable with what your fellow countrymen are doing to US prisoners, but I don't think you'll find the UK has the same problem.
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Maybe its simply the case that if one stacked up all the potential good news stories along side the usual bad news news stories it would only serve to emphasise what a complete cock-up the whole situation is. I mean if Fox lead with a good news story on how negotiations for the first Iraqi McDonalds franchise are going and the BBC lead with the murder of Iraqi childeren at a wedding party Fox are going to look even dumber than they do most of the rest of the time.
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Its more the case that to non-Americans, a problem of US mistreatment of US prisoners in the US is an internal issue and we don't feel the need to stick our oars in quite as much as when its US citizens abusing foreign citizens in a foreign country. Doesn't anyone see the irony of President Bush telling the world that abuse of prisoners was Un-American when apparently 25% of US prisoners are abused?
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Iraqi Governing Council Member May Have Passed Info to Iran
crozby replied to Gawain's topic in Speakers Corner
Before the invasion of Iraq there was a period when the US/UK were insisting there were WMD stockpiles, factories etc. in Iraq and meanwhile the UN weapons inspectors, led by Hans Blix, were finding nothing. Eventually the UN got fed up and very publicly asked the US/UK to tell them where the WMD were. The rather surreal response they got was that providing them with this intel was not possible because it would put the lives of the US/UK intelligence sources at risk. Is this guy Chalabi one of the sources that would have been put at risk? -
Thanks everyone, I think Perris it is. Can't wait....
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My friend and I are planning to be over in the States in June for a weeks skydiving and wind tunnel camp. It looks like our choice of destinations is Deland & Perris - both look like great DZs and both have wind tunnels. Which would you choose based on the weather in June?