funjumper101

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Like you do with Christianity, you mean? Like I do with the FAKE christians like RonD1120? I have tried to stop a church or YMCA being built? When and where? It didn't happen. That must mean that you are Right Wing Conservative LIAR. I have little to no respect for those folks that try to push their particular ancient superstitions on others. They can do what they like, on their own peoperty, with like minded sheeple. Stay out of my face and off my property. Do what you like, in the privacy of your OWN SPACE. Freeedom OF religion means freedom FROM religion. Keep your ancient superstitions to yourself and we'll all get along just fine.

Best guess - Yes they are. Perhaps we could blame a meteroite that wiped out the dinos - it ALMOST as relevant. The lessons of history are available to those that would learn them. If one is determined to remain ignorant, learn nothing of history, and act from emotion instead of knowlege, one has that right. You would be acting like an idiot, but one has the right to act like an idiot if one chooses. The Shinto Shrine is in the middle of Ground Zero for the Pearl Harbor attacks. That is a FACT. The loudmouths that started the "No Moslem Community Center" threads can't back up their opinions with facts. Why is ~25000 feet better than ~1000 feet? YOU CAN'T ANSWER, because there is no logical answer. It is a load of bullshit, and your nose has been well rubbed in it. Enjoy the experience.

Begin quoted text >>> Origins of "Islamofascism" The term "Islamofascism" is included in the New Oxford American Dictionary, which defines it as "a controversial term equating some modern Islamic movements with the European fascist movements of the early twentieth century".[1] The term is used in this manner by writers like Stephen Schwartz[2] and Christopher Hitchens,[3] to describe Islamist extremists, including terrorist groups such as al Qaeda. William Safire makes particular note of Hitchens as a "popularizer" of the word, though Hitchens declines credit for coining it.[4] The terms Islamic fascism and Muslim fascism are also used by the French philosopher Michel Onfray, an outspoken atheist and antireligionist, who notes in his Atheist Manifesto that Ruhollah Khomeini's Islamic Revolution "gave birth to an authentic Muslim fascism".[5] The origins of the term are uncertain. William Safire writes that the "first use [he] can find" comes from Malise Ruthven in 1990, when Ruthven wrote in The Independent that "authoritarian government, not to say Islamo-fascism, is the rule rather than the exception from Morocco to Pakistan."[6][7] Albert Scardino writes that the term "seems to have appeared first" in a Washington Times piece, in which scholar Khalid Duran used it "as a criticism of hyper-traditionalist clerics."[8] According to the Times, this piece appeared in July 2001.[9]

RUN AWAY when you can't think and can't answer the questions.

Neither. Ignorant white folks that make up stupid terms for things that aren't real are the biggest threat to the American way of life. Especially when they think their stupid terms make sense. Try looking up Fascism in an online dictionary. Then come back and inform us as to how a RELIGION (Islam) has anything to do with governance in partnership with business interests. Can't you at least come up with something original, not a moron bastard shitheadism from Shrub?

You really don't get what the issue is about, do you? No one is doing anything like what you write. What you write is directly from the RWC media machine. It is NOT original thought on your part. You are just repeating what you have heard and read, which you really don't seem to understand to any great degree. You might want to read the US Constitution, the bill of Rights, and some third party analysis of the documents as to what they really mean. If you had, you would understand why DEFENDING the US Constitution is what BillVon, myself, Amazon, et al, are doing. You are doing exactly the opposite. That does not garner any respect at all. Quite the contrary.

Coming from you, after your anti-Constitutional, America hating posts in other threads, this is truly funny. I am VERY tired of the hatred and venom coming from people who have ZERO respect for those who follow other religions and want to abrogate their rights. Those who would use "majority rules" to deny folks their Constitutional are getting back a taste of what they give out. It sucks to be on the receiving end of it, instead of on the giving end, doesn't it? Think about that next time you want to start spewing RWC hatred and talking points.

Funny how John can't defend himself when challenged to think through the issue presented. Perhaps the logical thinking from intelligent, well read folks is getting through to him.

QuoteQuoteThe bigots are wrong and can't logically defend their position on this matter. I despise those that are actively engaged in working towards ruining this coutry. The bigots who fall for the emotional crap from the scumbags on the right must be called out and held accountable. Clearly there is no rational defense to the facts of the matter, so pretending that there is is required to save face. Cowards and bullies always run away when challenged.

Yes, I read it, and as usual you avoided the issue. I did not say that I hate Islam (the equivalent to "I don't trust blacks" as you said). I said I hate Islamofacists. That should be OK to do without having to say I also hate all facists. You see a need to require the generalization that is irrelevant to the topic. Reading something usually means you understood the content. In this instance, that does not appear to be the case. Why do use the conplete ridiculolous epithet "Islamofascists"? Look up the word "facists", then come back here and clarify why "Islamofascists" is anything but a comical term concocted by Shrub.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599201315000 Why do you have a problem with this? Clearly if you have done nothing wrong, and are doing nothing wrong, you would have nothing to worry about if you were monitored in this manner. *sigh* This is exactly the thought process that got us where we are today. Big Brother thanks you for your support. You missed the missing sarcasm smiley. Go read the John's Cordoba thread, and my Shinto Shrine at Pearl Harbor thread. My posts make clear my thoughts on Constitutional rights. By the way, John, the right to privacy is a legal construct by the SCOTUS. This is the same construct that was used in Roe v Wade. Are you saying that you agree with Roe v Wade? For the record, it is my belief that abortion should be safe, legal, readily available, and EXTREMELY rare. Government and religious intrusion into this matter should be illegal.

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That's a perfect example of what I was talking about, regarding name-calling and rational thinking. Thank you for the demonstration. And with that, I'm out of this discussion. I said my piece, and I stand on it. You irrational name-callers may continue without me. You stand on total bullshit and you know it. I will be calling you out every time you pretend to care about Constitutional rights. You don't get to pick and choose which ones matter and to whom they apply. They ALL mattter, and they apply equally to all. Unless of course, you are a RWC. Then you THINK you get to pick and choose. That only works if you are allowed to get away with it. I don't think that can be allowed to happen.

Then offer something productive about the topic at hand. It is the PERFECT example of the law of unintended consequences. Any ill thought out meddling in a complex system will create unanticipated and often undesirable consequences as seen with the turd known as the Patriot Act. It appears that those who supported said turd are having second thoughts about that support. Pardon me while I gloat with a HUGE I TOLD YOU SO you know... I many times thought a couple of not-nice words about you in the above replies and kept them to myself. I decided I might have been wrong in thinking those things. It appears I wasn't. I'll still keep my opinion to myself, but if you're trying to convince anyone you're capable of rational thought, you're going about it the wrong way. Her thoughts and words are totally rational. They are a product of a long and interesting life, along with a well developed sense of right and wrong. There has been nothing positive from the RWCs and the Rescumlicans in a very long time. The concentration of ownership of the media in the hands of the extremely wealthy has led to an abundance of self serving disinformation that helps them acheive their goals. Real wages for the average person have gone down drastically, while the income of the top 1% has skyrocketed. And the sheeple of the world go along with it. Those of us old enought to have lived a good bit of history, have traveled extensively, and know folks from other parts of the world have a unique and knowlegeable perspective compared to those that have never really been anywhere or done anything. The fact that you can't grasp the world view and understand it doesn't make it senseless. It just means it is beyond your comprehension. The RWCs believe that that which they cannot understand must be bad.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599201315000 Why do you have a problem with this? Clearly if you have done nothing wrong, and are doing nothing wrong, you would have nothing to worry about if you were monitored in this manner. In other threads you are perfectly happy with the First Amendment violations occuring with the trumped up controversy over the Moslem Community center in Manhattan. You know, the one near the porn shops and bars two blocks from one of the sites of the 9/11 attacks? Yet here you are writing in defense of Constitutional Rights to privacy. Your inconsistent application of Constitutional Rights is confusing. Why do some parts of the Constitution matter, and others don't? Explain, please.

Cowards and bullies always run away when challenged.

This statement right here is the crux of the matter. Can you point out what part of the First Amendment and the US Constitution makes an allowance for the approval of religious laws? I can go find lots of interesting things in the Bible regarding killing people for not observing the Sabbath, eating fish on Fridays, and other charming rules that seem to be widely ignored. They are codified in the Bible as religious laws, therefor they must apply to every single human that identifies as Christian, by your reasoning. By your reasoning, anyone who uses the Bible for guidance cannot be allowed to practice their religion. The fact is that many parts of the Bible are widely ignored. There are laws that allow for punishment of those who actually do follow the harsher parts of the Bible. The same is true those that follow the harsher parts of the Koran. Funny how easy it was to totally debunk your reasoning. OH OH... you are so in trouble now NO VIRGINS FOR YOU - - - - - Damn it, I've missed out on popping a cherry for my whole life, and now you've told me it ain't gonna happen in the afterlife. Gee, thanks for ruining my dream [;)

This statement right here is the crux of the matter. Can you point out what part of the First Amendment and the US Constitution makes an allowance for the approval of religious laws? I can go find lots of interesting things in the Bible regarding killing people for not observing the Sabbath, eating fish on Fridays, and other charming rules that seem to be widely ignored. They are codified in the Bible as religious laws, therefor they must apply to every single human that identifies as Christian, by your reasoning. By your reasoning, anyone who uses the Bible for guidance cannot be allowed to practice their religion. The fact is that many parts of the Bible are widely ignored. There are laws that allow for punishment of those who actually do follow the harsher parts of the Bible. The same is true those that follow the harsher parts of the Koran. Funny how easy it was to totally debunk your reasoning.

The bigots are wrong and can't logically defend their position on this matter. I despise those that are actively engaged in working towards ruining this coutry. The bigots who fall for the emotional crap from the scumbags on the right must be called out and held accountable. Clearly there is no rational defense to the facts of the matter, so pretending that there is is required to save face. Cowards and bullies always run away when challenged.

That's a perfect example of what I was talking about, regarding name-calling and rational thinking. Thank you for the demonstration. And with that, I'm out of this discussion. I said my piece, and I stand on it. You irrational name-callers may continue without me. In other words, your position is "Don't confuse me with the facts. My mind is made up." You can't rationally defend or explain your position, so you take your ball and run along home. The fact that you are opposed to private property rights and the excercise of freedom of religion is a very clear demonstration that you have no respect for the US Constitution and the rule of law. You said it, not me. Exposing the truth of what you are is a self inflicted wound. Deal with it.

I have no problem with the New York mosque moving five miles away from ground zero. Thank you for your love, understanding and tolerance. Here is a fine example of emotion and ignorance overcoming rational thought. The 5 miles in the story refers to the distance between the site of the Shinto shrine and the Pearl Harbor memorial. Anyone with basic knowlege of the Pearl Harbor attack knows that the site of the memorial is not the only place that bombs landed and people were killed. The entire area was bombed and shot up. Logically speaking, Pearl Harbor's "Ground Zero" is the entire area, not just the site of the memorial. That puts the Shinto shrine in the middle of ground zero for the attack. The religious facility at the Pentagon is a mosque when it is used by Muslims performing their religious rituals. In the right wing jingoistic way of thinking, that means that ShrubCo placed a mosque at ground zero for Pentagon attack. There was no RWC backlash at that time. Why is that? Why is ~25,000 feet a better distance than ~1000 for the placement of a Muslim Community Center? Would it be OK for for New Yorkers to get involved in a local zoning decision regarding placement of a YMCA near the site of the Oklahoma City bombing? Timothy McVeigh self identified as Christian, so that means all "Christians" are terrorists, right? Blaming an entire religion for the actions of the fringe fanatics is wrong. The WBC is a Christian church. Does that make all Christains lunatics? The ideals of this country are being seriously challenged by RWCs. They are trying to set aside parts of the US Constitution for short term political gain. They are finding a willing and easily led audience that has no historical knowlege or perspective. The lack of basic civics knowlege these days is incredible. It is a scary time for the USA. John, you didn't answer any of my questions. Why is that? are they too challenging? Do they make your head spin? You present a position, but can't logically defend it, is my conclusion. Here they are again. Give it a go and see what you can come up with. Begin quoted text>>> The religious facility at the Pentagon is a mosque when it is used by Muslims performing their religious rituals. In the right wing jingoistic way of thinking, that means that ShrubCo placed a mosque at ground zero for Pentagon attack. There was no RWC backlash at that time. Why is that? Why is ~25,000 feet a better distance than ~1000 for the placement of a Muslim Community Center? Would it be OK for for New Yorkers to get involved in a local zoning decision regarding placement of a YMCA near the site of the Oklahoma City bombing? Timothy McVeigh self identified as Christian, so that means all "Christians" are terrorists, right? Blaming an entire religion for the actions of the fringe fanatics is wrong. The WBC is a Christian church. Does that make all Christains lunatics?

And this is why we can't have an honest debate on this issue. You guys want to demonize the folks on the other side of the issue and turn them into anti-American devils. I would have hoped that readers would have noticed that nowhere did I ever say that anyone should be denied their freedom of religion. That's all in the heads of my detractors, because they like to jump on the demonization bandwagon, rather than to read with a clear mind. Emotional name-calling seems to trump reading what is actually said and thinking rationally. My argument all along has been that for an Imam professing to want to improve East-West relations, he isn't being very sensitive to American culture. In other words, I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to a mosque, I'm saying he isn't going about building one the right way. It's not an argument against freedom of religion, it's an argument about the effectiveness of his methodology. If he would simply change the location of his mosque to a place that doesn't offend New Yorkers, and change the name of the program to build it to one that doesn't have "Christian conquest" meaning associated with it, then there wouldn't be any further objections, and he could get on with his project. If you want to improve relations, you don't do it with an "in your face" style that pisses the people off, with whom you claim to be wanting as friends. And the fact that he is so unwilling to do these simple things, makes people call into question his motives, which detracts from the project. I hope that clarifies my position. You have shown what you are by your words. You have NO respect for the Constitution and the ideals of this nation. If the whole area of South Manhattan is "hallowed ground", why are NEW porn shops and gay bars OK, while a Moslem Community Center is not? Why is ~25000' acceptable for locating the facility, and ~1000' is not? The folks in the local area in South Manhattan were cool with the location of the facility, up until a whole bunch of outsiders were whipped into a frenzy by the RWC media machine. Those outsiders have stuck their noses into a local zoning isssue that is none of their business. The old Burlington Coat Factory is private property. I thought that RWCs were all about property rights and minimal goverment interference with it. Hypocracy is the word... For the record, I have been to New York City several times. I have been to Windows on the World for drinks and appetizers. I have been on the outside viewing platform. I have had dinner at Elaine's. I have been in the Statue of Liberty, the Met, and Times Square. New York City is a truly multi-national, multi-cultural city. A Moslem Community Center in lower Manhattan is totally and completely appropriate. John, how much time have you spent in NYC?

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/danielle-parker/cordoba-mosque-the-conque_b_691583.html More RWC bullshit here. Why do you and your kind HATE the US Constitution so much? Why is the concept of "Freedom of religion" so abhorrent to you? You folks should pack up your shit and move to a theocracy. Might I suggest Saudi Arabia? You would be right at home with those fine folks. Porn shops and gay bars have been opened CLOSER to the Ground Zero site than the Moslem Community Center will be. That makes the assertion of "hallowed ground" extending for blocks around the site totally laughable to anyone with even half a brain cell. Are you folks REALLY that fucking STUPID? The answer, sadly, is YES WE ARE!!! The history of Cordoba, Spain is long, complicated and involved. Folks with normal reasoning skills and the ability to do research know that the city of Cordoba is justly famous for the centuries of peaceful coexistence of Christians, Moslems, and Jews. The project is named after the city of Cordoba on the basis of the long and peaceful interfaith relations in that great city. The revisionist history being pushed by the RWCs is factually incorrect. What else would come from RWCs? They have little to no regard for truth. Did any of you nitwits catch the footage of Shrub talking at Ground Zero, shortly after the attack? Look it up on YouTube. The moslem religion is NOT the enemy. Did any of you nitwits catch your hero Glenn Beck appearing on the same show as Rauf and PRAISING him for his work towards bringing together people of different faiths? You scumbags opposed to the construction of the Community Center are so un-american and un-patriotic, it is amazing. I hope that your children get to watch the video and read what you wrote, years from now. They will view you with the same disdain and disgust that is felt when showing the fine folks of Montgomery, AL protesting school integration. You are on the wrong side of history, in a sick and disgusting way. HAVE YOU NO SHAME? You are going against the finest ideals of this great nation.

I'm saying that trust is earned and they are not doing anything to earn that trust. The only way that the fundamentalists are going to be stamped out is from the inside of the Muslim religion and I see NOTHING that shows me that is happening. They are pushing so hard for their right to build and DO NOT CARE that it is insensitive and strikes a very real nerve with a very large portion of both the right and left. They want tolerance, but they have no understanding or concern for the way people feel about it. They can build a Mosque anywhere else and nobody would be raising a stink about it. That is evident by the 100's of Mosques already in NYC that nobody messes with. What are you doing to "stamp out" the Westboro Baptist Church? Nothing? Why not? You say it is the responsibility of the mainstream part of a religion to "stamp out" the fringe elements, yet you and your kind do nothing about the WBC? RWC hypocracy stinks up SC again. Funny how quick the RWCs disappear when they are called to account for their statements. Come on, Dominic, what have you done to "stamp out" the Westboro Baptist Church? According to you, the only way that the fundamentalists are going to be stamped out is from the inside of the religion. When do you plan to start "stamping out" the WBC? The RWC talking point sounds real good, right up until you actually think a bit. Then the reality that the talking point is really stupid sets in. Next time, think throught the entire issue before parroting RWC talking points.