funjumper101

Every other first world country, other than the USA, does not allow FOR PROFIT organizations to market private health insurance. The organizations must be set up as non-profit entities. A non-profit organization exists to perform the service that it was created to do. A for-profit organization exisit to make money for the investors/shareholders. A credit union is an example of a non-profit organization that provides the same services as for-profit organization. Credit Unions usually provide lower rates on loans and credit cards, and higher rates on checking/savings deposits. Commercial banks have been unhappy about credit unions for quite some time. When your goal is to make lots of money, it is hard to compete against someone whose goal is to break even. A for-profit health insurance company will make money only when they collect more in premiums and investment income than they pay out in claims and administrative expenses. Denying claims is the best way to minimize expenses. Any profit extracted from the system comes right out of the pockets/health of the "insured". The ethics are quite clear. In the rest of the civilized world, it is considered immoral to profit from the health issues of your fellow citizens. Here in the USA, the prevailing ethics of some people is that profit is king and all other concerns are trivial, at best. Greed and selfishness rules.

There is an income cap on Social Security and Medicare taxes. You pay these taxes up to 108,000.00 in income. Income above this amount is NOT subject to these taxes, which amount to about 15% of income when at the income cap. Don't forget that your employer pays a matching amount that you might otherwise have received as income, if it wasn't taken out for this tax. 30% of earnings gone, up to 108,000.00. This means that the vast majority of US taxpayers pay this tax on 100% of their income. Those with higher incomes pay less, as they earn more. So do the organizations that employ them. Is this fair tax policy? I think not. I think that it is greatly to the advantage of the wealthy and high income. They don't have to pay the same percentage as the rest of us. Why is this OK? The Rs have a lot to say about how Social Security and Medicare are in serious financial trouble. They have no useful answers on how to correct the issue. Removing the income cap on these taxes is a perfect way to level the playing field when it comes to taxation while generating funding needed to solve the financial "crisis".

Wow you sure are a smart one! Maybe one day they can bring it back so the govt. will make conservative stations play liberal crap. Maybe air america could actually suceed with a little govt. help. In case you havent noticed, there is a reason most talk shows are conservative. People like hearing the truth and get tired of others talking shit about there country! Hence no air america Go join dreamboy in Dreamwolrd It takes real shit for brains to defend centralized corporate ownership of hundreds of radio stations. Progressive Radio has pulled better numbers than Lush RimJob, O'Reilly, Hanninty, etc, in some markets. Oddly enough, the radio stations that had had high ratings with progesssive talk radio ended up having their formats changed. One went to Christian music. Another went to all sports talk. In both of those cases the rating for the new formats were substantially lower than progressive radio. In other words, SHIT FOR BRAINS RIGHT WING HALFWITS, market forces are NOT controlling what is available on the radio. THe corporate owners are. There are congressional hearing on this issue coming up. It takes a real half wit to defend Clear Channel and their corporate sleaziness. What else could be expected from one of the Village Idiots?

Frequently both in the same household. You can't talk about illegals without also insulting a lot of relatives of voters. I suppose that's true...and heaven forbid we would want to insult someone who's realtives are here illegally. If you're on the election bubble, every vote counts. Insulting the relatives of a large and specific demographic isn't the brightest of ideas. It's like making "Yo Momma" jokes . . . in some cases, exactly like it. I agree. It's not about right v. wrong anymore. It's about catering to those who will get you elected. Problem there is eventually those very same people will perpetuate the problem. We're getting dangerously close to 50% of the population not paying income tax. Which party panders to those folks? The loss of good paying jobs for the average person in the USA is the result of the carefully crafted "War on the middle class" conceived in the sixties, and executed starting with the election of Reagan. Once they got rid of the fairness doctrine, corporate takeover of the major media happened very quickly. (Note to ignorant righties - the key part of the FD that has had the most effect is the retrictions on ownership of media outlets were removed. That allowed large corporations to buy up hundreds of newspapers, television and radio stations. The corporate control of the content broadcast has been a disaster for the USA. The gullible have been sold ignorant crap like "Death Tax", and that joining the rest of the modern world WRT health care would be bad. If you think that this isn't real, the Dixie Chicks are a perfect example of the evils of the current system. Clear Channel Radio refused to broadcast the DC 's music after they exercised "freedom of speech" to comment on the failings of GWB. The right wing peckerwoods were all upset that the DCs actually said bad stuff about GWB and proceeded to go after them with great vigor. In the past, TV and Radio station ownership was held by hundreds of different individuals and small corporations. Now 5 corporations have control of 95% of the media outlets. They use the control to shape the opinions of those that are easily led and have minimal critical thinking skills. That is how a stupid concept like "death panels" is actually thought by some to be a real issue. Sold like toilet paper or shampoo, and bought by the ignorant and gullible. The sale of the concept of "the liberal media" is an example of just how skilled they have become in making people that which is completely opposite of the truth. Unions have been marketed as evil. Auto workers are maligned because they want to be paid a reasonable percentage of the profits from a well run company, instead of the absolute lowest possible wage that can be forced upon them. WalMart, for years, got away with having the information on how to sign up for section 8 housing assistance, food stamps, WIC, and other government programs as part of their new hire packets. One of the most profitable companies in the world, and they won't pay their employees wages that allow them to live above the poverty line. Walmart has broken every attempt of its workers to unionize. Track down the story of what happened to RubberMaid. It is a classic example of how WalMart forced a major US based supplier to push manufacturing off shore, thus eliminating good paying jobs here in the USA. That is what the righties support. It is fundamentally wrong on many levels. They don't see it that way because they simply don't have the ability to step back and grok the bigger picture. Bogged down in minor details, they are completely willing to vote against their own best interests.

Depends on how much labor union involvement they have and which family they are aligned with. SIEU? UFCW? Teamsters? the answer is, no, they are not part of the mafia lawrocket

All evidence seems to support that conclusion. Here is a fun game of statistics - Half the US Population has a BELOW AVERAGE IQ.

20%? Better check your figures on that one. Too low? probably...

Too stupid to understand a clear explanation of the differences? That seems to be the case for the last few posters here. What part of what I wrote said anything about any fraud being good? Some kinds of fraud are much worse than others. On a sliding scale of 1 to 10, I put registration fraud at about a 0.5, and voter fraud at about a 10. One messes up statistics as far as how many voters are registered to what party. The other has been shown to change the outcome of Presidential elections. If you folks could actually comprehend the facts surrounding the registration fraud issues with ACORN, you might be in a position to have an informed opinion on the matter. By the content of the posts, comprehension is completely absent. Faux Spews is an entertainment channel at best. It is not a reliable source for accurate information. Neither is Lush Rimjob. ACORN got fucked for following federal law. Fucked by right wing LE and the dirtbags that KNOWINGLY filled out false registration forms. It isn't ACORN's job to vet the data on the forms. That is up to the registrar of voters. The LEs managed to get bullshit convictions. When you are part of the Village Idiots, facts don't make any sense. Even when put in terms most eighth graders understand. With regard to the videos going around, when I watch them, it sure seems to me like the ACORN employees are playing along with some very untalented actors. In hindsight, I'll bet the joke isn't quite so funny to the former ACORN employees. How about the ACORN lady that murdered her husband? She said it, and Faux Spews reported it as fact. One minor detail escaped the Faux Spews folks - the woman was lying, and the gullible cretins bought it hook, line, and sinker. Village Idiots? Ayuh.

Rachel Maddow had an awesome guest on last night's show. A former religious nutter, he managed to overcome his upbringing and come around to understanding the impotance of knowlege and facts, instead of fear and superstition. About 20% of the US population do not believe in Evolution and do believe the Creation myth. They consider it fact, not myth. This attitude permeates their whole existence. Fear of knowlege and fact rules their lives. Emotion and belief are what matter to them. Facts are discarded if they conflict with the beliefs and emotions. These are the Village Idiots of our culture. We need to totally ignore them. We must STOP trying to appease them in any way. They have nothing of value to contribute to society. They revel in their ignorance and work hard to maintain it. Some of them post here. The village must NOT work to accomodate the village idiots. The idiots must be ignored and we have to do the right things for the village. Anything else is madness.

Dumb as a box of rocks. How else can you explain it? The fastest growing group of voters is of Hispanic ancestry. For some strange reason thay don't take too kindly to blowhards that rant about "illegals". When the morons of the gang of six try to PREVENT people from buying insurance, that is not exactly making friends and influencing people to vote Republican. Pandering to the base with these tactics is not smart. All I can say is KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!! You are doing a fine job of ensuring that the Rs will become less and less of an influence as they get voted out of office.

Sheesh sir. I really don’t have anything to get over. I just wondered why it takes the FOIA to get some data from the newly elected most transparent and open admin of all time Typical righty codswallop. When presented with facts that destroy their trumped up outrage, they backpedal furiously and announce "I wasn't really claiming that stupid stuff it sounds like I was claiming. I meant something completely different." Same bullshit, different subject.

The first part of your reply is pretty pathetic, even for you. It is HYSTERICAL that you try to blame liberals. You don't contest the list of conservative characteristics. You just blame it on liberals. So much for the concept of personal responsibility. Bwaa Haa Haa!!!! The truth about modern conservatism sucks when you get your nose rubbed into it, eh? Thanks for the laugh. I needed it.

Righty ignorance in all its glory, brought to you live, right here in Speakers corner. An ignorant statement like this clearly shows that you haven't a clue. Voter registration fraud is one thing. Voter fraud is entirely different and much more dangerous to the electoral process. When you get up to speed as to what is fantasy, and what is reality, get back with us. Here is a quote from an news article: Guess which left-wing group is at the center of the worst case of voter-registration fraud in Washington state history? Yep, you guessed it: ACORN. The same ACORN tied to massive voter fraud in Missouri. And Ohio. And 12 other states. It says VOTER FRAUD in MISSOURI, and OHIO and 12 OTHER STATES. Voter registration fraud is a type of voter fraud just like a square it is a type of rectangle! Looks more like lefty "ignorance in all its glory"! Along with ignoring everything else, ignoring all the facts because you think someone got 1 wrong. Quoting lying news sites does not make the the lies true. There is a massive difference between VOTER FRAUD and voter registration fraud. Voter fraud is when fraudulent votes are counted during an election. Those votes are counted as real and count just as much as votes from registered voters. That is what actually happened in Ohio in 2004. Voter registration fraud is when a person or entity tries to register to be ABLE to vote in an election. By Federal law, an organization such as ACORN cannot discard voter registration forms that have been filled out, even if some right wing asshole put down Donald Duck as their name, and signed the form. The form must be turned in. The organization may flag those forms that they believe are questionable. BY FEDERAL LAW, the forms must be turned in, even if the organization believes that the information on the form is false. It is up to the registrar of voters to decide to register the voter, or not. That is what has happened with ACORN, repeatedly, as there has been an organized campaign by your kind of folks, to screw up ACORN. Your kind has been very successful, in a truly EVIL way. When you are able to discern the profound difference, feel free to contribute to the debate. If you are going to repeat complete lies, with any comprehension the true facts of the matter, I advise you to crack open a big can of "STFU - for ignorant right wing loons". You can find that product on eBay.

Righty ignorance in all its glory, brought to you live, right here in Speakers corner. An ignorant statement like this clearly shows that you haven't a clue. Voter registration fraud is one thing. Voter fraud is entirely different and much more dangerous to the electoral process. When you get up to speed as to what is fantasy, and what is reality, get back with us.

In who's mind? A two year old? To tough a read, sparky?

Evan Handler makes a pretty strong case here. If we are going to make a change in how health care is administered, why don't we follow the successful models of other countires? WHy the stubbrn resistance to doing the right thing for the good of our country? It is clear to all, conservative and progressive alike, that the status quo cannot be sustained. Begin quoted text >>> I'm pretty invested in this health care bill battle. First, twenty-four years ago, when I was 24 years old, I was diagnosed with acute myeloid leukemia. My medical treatments lasted over four years, cost close to half a million dollars, and were largely paid for by insurance coverage from my two acting unions, Actors Equity Association and Screen Actors Guild. Still, my family was forced to empty my bank account to meet official poverty levels (there wasn't very much to spend, at the time) in order to qualify for Social Security disability payments, and my years of illness nearly bankrupted my parents -- in spite of all the insurance coverage and assistance. I can tell you firsthand: even the most privileged among us are within a millimeter of losing everything to an unexpected illness. I was lucky enough to escape the clutches of what was then considered to be an incurable disease. I had my life. But I was left with nothing else. So, I'm puzzled, and amazed, and dismayed, by those who want health care reform legislation to be anything other than the most comprehensive and powerful it can possibly be. Then there's my new family. My wife is from Italy. She, her parents, her grandparents, all her relatives, and all their friends have received prompt, capable, and comprehensive health care their entire lives, and it hasn't cost them a thing. They've had their teeth cleaned regularly, their cavities filled, gum tissue transplants, fused spinal discs, abdominal surgeries, you name it. They didn't wait any longer than anyone would here. Nothing was rationed or withheld. They were, and are, every age, from zero to 94. Their government makes sure that its citizens can visit the doctor, have surgeries, and take care of their health, period. It's a right of existence, and -- to judge by my wife's circle -- it's working well (and Italy ain't exactly known for things working well). For that matter, my wife also attended the high school of her choice free of charge, and a world renowned Italian University for $200 per year. Why wouldn't Americans want the same? If they do want it, why are these things being kept from them? Maybe a more pertinent question today is, why are they being encouraged and instructed to fear this kind of progress on the part of their government, which every other advanced nation's government in the world has already long embraced? Last night's eruption during President Obama's speech was a good example of that last tendency. It reminded me of the famous quotation from Joseph Welch, spoken to Senator Joseph McCarthy, who'd already spent years ruining careers and lives with less than sincere (and far less than accurate) accusations of anti-Americanism. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?, is what Mr. Welch said in 1954. And it precipitated the downfall of a legendary bully (who is now largely regarded as a blowhard). It would have been interesting if President Obama had responded to Republican Congressman Joseph Wilson's outburst of "You lie!" with those same iconic words. First, it would have been interesting to see whether the Congressman, or others, might have responded; whether the president would have responded once again; and whether this would have resulted in spirited and unscripted debate, thus giving us all a glimpse of what an American version of British Parliament might look like. But our House of Representatives isn't British Parliament. There have been plenty of times I've wished it was. It would be great to have a forum where questions and criticisms could be shouted out at our elected leaders, thereby compelling them to respond. But we don't have that forum. And, since we don't, Joseph Wilson should have followed some simple rules. You do not shout "You lie!" at the president while he's addressing Congress, and the nation. More crucially, you don't shout "You lie!" at the president when he's stating the irrefutable fact that his health care proposals do not offer coverage to illegal residents of the United States. Since facts, such as the one I just mentioned, don't seem to hold as much influence as facts used to, let me quote from the health care proposal being prepared for submission to congress: H.R. 3200: Sec 246 NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States. I do not know what makes the language of Sec. 246 so hard to understand, or accept. Since it's right there, visible for anyone to read, I have to suspect that Joseph Wilson either doesn't know it's there, or doesn't care. That he, and the many (many, many) others who are furious about aspects of the proposed health care legislation, simply want to use any emotion, misinformation, slander, or lie to prevent its passage. That's a shame, because a) there are plenty of areas in which to find legitimate fault in the bill, as with many bills, and b) because giving health care insurance to the most people possible is a very good thing to do. That's why every other advanced nation on planet Earth does it -- and most of them have far greater health than we enjoy, and spend much less on keeping it that way. So why are so many still vehemently opposed? To me, all the arguments against fall apart when inspected with any sense of logic. There's the slander, intimated last night, that the bill covers illegal immigrants. It doesn't. I sometimes wonder whether this misguided argument stems from the fact that the bill would presumably cover the offspring of illegal immigrants, should they be born on United States soil. But those new human beings, if born in the United States, are United States citizens. That's the law. If the complaint is with that law, then the bill's opponents should confront that issue, not the health care bill. (Of course, that would require altering the Constitution of the United States, which grants citizenship rights to anyone born here. The same constitution that conservatives consider perfect, and worthy of protection from "revisionist" judges. I guess that's an inconsistency they still need to work out.) For the life of me, and not for lack of effort, I can't wrap my mind around the logic of those against aggressive reform -- including a "public option." I posted some thoughts on Facebook late last night and got response after response from people wishing a bill would bring "liability/tort reform," "oversight," or "create incentives," and "level the playing field," all followed by the demand that this not include "big government involvement." I'm sorry, but that doesn't track. All those things require government involvement. At least some opponents seem to want government to provide, without being "involved." To take it a step further, all those expressed cravings above would be best accomplished by the government offering an optional, only-if-you-want-it, government sponsored insurance option. That's the way to keep insurance companies honest! By offering a competent, comprehensive, affordable, and compassionate alternative they will be forced to match, or else lose customers. Honestly, I think many of those who are opposed have been sold an ideological bill of goods. "Government bad. Oppose it. Even if it's offering something you need." One concern I can at least understand is that offering lower cost, government sponsored insurance might put insurance companies at an unfair competitive disadvantage, thereby forcing some out of business, and costing people jobs. I can understand the concerns, but the argument doesn't hold up. First, insurance company profits are enormous. There's room for diminishment. Second, we're talking about legislation that would insure forty-five million more people! Insurance companies could easily make up for lowered rates and maintain, or surpass, profits through increased revenue. And, even if the government program "stole" customers away and forced some, or (gasp) all, insurance companies out of business, that would mean the government's insurance entity would have to hire enough workers to accommodate the forty-five million new customers. Workers are going to be needed. Forty-five million new policy holders will create jobs, not eliminate them. I've heard the impassioned cry that any "public option" will act as a "foot in the door," after which citizens will be forced to use government subsidized insurance, or government provided health care (the latter being an option that's never been proposed). Complaining about having subsidized insurance provided to you sounds to me a bit like complaining about having Social Security or unemployment benefits imposed upon you. But, putting that aside, I really can't see it happening, unless an overwhelming majority of people really like the way things are going. I mean, a military draft couldn't stand up to public opposition. Do you really think government health insurance, if attempted, that wasn't pleasing the people, could survive where a military draft could not? That still leaves those who just think government screws everything up, and don't want it given any more responsibility or influence over their lives. I can sure understand the sentiment. But is the solution to forever prohibit government from attempting to get better? I'd like to know how many who oppose more "government involvement" home-school their children, take their own garbage to the dump, keep their own reservoirs functioning and safe, repair their own streets, build and operate their own public transportation (or refuse to use it, wherever they go), or VOLUNTARILY OPT OUT OF MEDICARE WHEN THEY REACH 65!!, and send their unemployment and social security checks back out of principled opposition? And I'm not talking about foregoing one or two, folks. You're either on the grid, or you're off. There's no in-between. The reactionary in me wants to say, "Fess up. You suck at the government's tit, then complain when chocolate milk ain't flowing." My emotional side is tired of it. But, having cleared my spleen of my own frustration, I just encourage you all to look at it another way. Not how the government has failed you to this point, but at what the government might be offering now to improve upon the past. If you don't allow for that opportunity, if you only exist in defensive mode, you could very well be blocking the improvement you're aching for. Evan Handler's new book is "It's Only Temporary: The Good News and the Bad News of Being Alive."

The facts are there. Feel free to question the conclusions of the writer. The FACTS are indisputable. The italicized statement, which appears to be stated as a fact, is actually pretty disputable. Further, even if the organizers were previously involved, that fails to show that the actual participants were. My, equally disputable, statement, is that I think the majority of those involved have not been involved in politics prior to this point. I believe that simple fact (which you are welcome to dispute) undermines the entire thrust of the article. I would be happy to read any cites or postings that identify anyone but Consevative organizers for the tea parties and the 9 12 hate filled racists. Glenn Beck is not at all a Progressive. Take a careful look at the NARLO web site for an example of the calber of people supporting the 9 12 douchebags. Advocating the violent overthow of the US government is not OK by me. It apparently is OK by you, and the folks who showed up. If you show up for an event, you have a responsibility to educate yourself as to who exactly is involved in organizing it. If you fail to educate yourself, be prepared to be held accountable for your support of hatred for the USA and its government. The fact that senior Republican leadership of the House, and the Senate, spoke at these events yesterday, is nauseating to real patriots. It makes completely clear that the Republican party has been taken over by the lunatic fringe.

Ah, yes. The old "well, we're spending a ton of money, so we need more taxes" argument. No point addressing the actual spending, is there? Because that would only address the underlying issue, wouldn't it? No sense at all in doing that. There are two ways to reduce deficits. Increase revenue or decrease expenditures. Pushing for one of these does not make you a hypocrite. It means you have a preference about what direction you want things to move in the future. Pushing for one method (reducing expenditures) when the situation we are in has been caused by excessive growth in government spending, and "temporary" tax cuts, both implemented by YOUR preferred party, (The Republicans) cannot be interpreted as anything but hypocritical. The biggest expansion of government in US history occurred under ShrubCo. The biggest expansion of the national debt occurred under ShrubCo. It is stunning that righty ideology blinds you to these simple facts. These aren't opinions. These are FACTS. Can you please tell me how a ending a temporary tax cut, as was promised to happen when it was implmented, becomes a tax increase? That is some seriously fucked up logic. It was sold as a TEMPORARY tax cut, to expire after a period of time. Look up the word "temporary" in a dictionary if the meaning is unclear to you. The tax rate was TEMPORARILY reduced, so as to "give us our own money back", remember? The Republican idea was that since Clinton left us with a huge budget surplus, the correct thing to do was GIVE THE MONEY BACK, not pay down the existing debt. It was terrible idea then, and it continues to be a terrible idea now. Now that we are in a situation where we desperately need the money, why aren't we getting it? Could it be that the Republicans are lying sacks of shit that can't be trusted? My answer to that question is YES. A thousand times YES.

Your comprehension of the issue at hand would be greatly improved if you actually read the whole article and thought carefully about the content. That would, of course, require that you might be open to other interpretations of the FACTS that are outlined in the article. The facts are there. Feel free to question the conclusions of the writer. The FACTS are indisputable.

Just out of curiosity, which war are you referring to? The one where the USA made a decision to invade and occupy a country that never attacked the USA and did not pose any credible threat to our interests. The one where intelligence reports were cherry picked for data that supported the decision already made, while discarding any reports that did not support the decision. The one where the USA did something that hadn't been done since the very beginning of WWII. That would be attacking and occupying a country that did NOT attack us first. The one where the President lied to Congress during a State of the Union address. Is that enough clues for you?

No - It's not sad at all. Perhaps your children should ask the "adult" in charge of the other children why they are allowed to be like they are. I bet that would make a difference. I would probly go to jail when the adult smarted off to my kid I have and I will continue to speak up to children, and their parents, when the children are behaving badly in public. I am SICK of the lazy fuckwits that allow their kids to act like assholes in public and pretend that it isn't happening. All you have to do to have a kid is fuck. It takes more schooliong and demonstration of practical knowlege to get a drivers license, than it does to have a kid. It takes a village to raise a child. In other words, unrelated adults correcting badly behaved children, in public, is completely CORRECT. Any time I have had a parent mouth off to me, I have alway shut them up with "If you won't teach your child to behave in public, the rest of us will have to do it for you." The parents know that their kid was behaving badly and shut up straight away. More often, I have had parents thank me for helping them with their hard to manage kid. If a punk-ass parent actually assaulted me, I would make sure that they went to jail and the kids went to child services for their own safety. Disruptive children in public places, like good intentions, should be carried OUT.

Oh, the HORROR. Public schools actually teaching students on societal issues. What on earth is up with that? Teaching students to be respectful of others, in spite of their differences? That is unbelievable and horrendous. The damage to the children is incalculable. They'll be RUINED for life if they are taught that bullying is bad, that homosexuality is part of the normal human condition, and that all people deserve a decent level of respect, even if they are different than you. That kind of education is totally against what the USA is all about. SOMEBODY PLEASE LOOK OUT FOR THE CHILDREN!!! We can't have the children taught that all people are equal. That is totally un-American and must be stopped IMMEDIATLY.

Religious Fundamentalism, a threat abroad, a threat at home. I put that Afghan cop on the same plane as the anti-abortion zealots that insist that no government funds be used to pay for abortions. The AAA (anti abortion activists) don't want their tax dollars spent on things that are morally offensive to them. The politicains caved on this and the AAA got what they wanted. For some reason, the same arguement regarding MY tax dollars being spent on a pre-meditated war of aggresion is not considered valid. My moral and spiritual objections to this are intense. Why can't I get the same special consideration shown to the AAA minority group? Why doesn't every special interest group have the ability to prevent their tax dollars from being spent on stuff thay don't like? If it is good enought for one group, isn't it good enough for all?

Can any of the righy bloviators explain why this appears to be incomprehensible to you? Begin quoted text >>> Much of what I have read was due to ACORN following federal law and marking up those registration forms that they believed to be fraudulent. The marked up registration forms were brought to the attention of the election commissions.

Kallend posted the link to this. The content is sure to piss off the righies, as the facts presented are indisputable. Begin quoted text >>> The Tea Party Express has hit Washington and while there are many sincere people involved in the Tea Party protests and they have valid points to make about government spending, the entire movement is stained by the fact that its organized by conservatives who are the ones responsible for the mess in the first place and who haven't to this day, taken responsibility for their own mistakes and the economic mess they created by letting George W Bush get away with his disastrous policies. The problem for the sincere Tea Party protesters is the entire movement is conservative organized which. unfortunately completely undermines iits credibility. It was the conservatives who, after 8 years of the greatest economic expansion in history during the Clinton years, came to power and intentionally undid everything Clinton did, reversing all of Clinton's policies. And anyone with half a brain knows that if you do the opposite of anything you will get the opposite results. And that's what the Republicans did. And that's what the country got. Now the conservatives are shaking their baby rattles and complaining. It was a conservative Republican administration and a conservative Republican congress who blew a $5 1/2 trillion budget surplus. They destroyed the balanced budget they inherited, and after Clinton had eliminated the deficit, they exploded the deficit to record levels with their war and tax policies. It was a conservative Republican government that took the country from the greatest economic expansion in history, lowest unemployment in 40 years, a balanced budget and record surpluses to deficits, unemployment and the greatest economic crisis since the 1930's. So during these Tea Party protests conservatives are showing why the word "hypocrite" should be part of the dictionary definition of conservative. They said nothing and did nothing while Bush and the Republican congress were getting the country into deeper and deeper trouble. The conservatives who organize the Tea Party protests sat on their hands and did nothing. They did nothing when the balanced budget was destroyed, nothing when Bush exploded the deficit, nothing when Bush cut taxes instead of raising them to pay for the war he started. This means that nothing the conservative organizers have to say can or should be taken seriously or be seen as anything other than cheap partisan politics. And that is too bad since there are legitimate issues to be dealt with. And while not everyone who is protesting is a conservative, the protests bear the conservative stamp. And that is the Kiss of Death. Because conservatives forfeited their right to be taken seriously by playing Hear No Evil ,See No Evil ,Speak No Evil during 8 years of the disastrous Bush Administration. They proved there are no real principles behind the organizing of these protests even if some of the people who join them do so out of principle. But for the organizers its only a lust for power and their motivation is politics. When Bush became the first President in history to take the country to war and cut taxes at the same time they said nothing. They just happily took their tax cuts, supported the unnecessary war in Iraq and were happy not to pay for it and pass the cost along. Exactly what they are complaining about now. They simply don't want to pay for their mistakes. But they will, like it or not. Which is why the Tea Party protests from conservatives have not so much to do with tea but with whine. If the legitimate Tea Party protestors want to be taken seriously they are going to have to split from the conservative Republican organizers of the movement who have no credibility. As long as the Tea Party protests are conservative organized and motivated they will never be taken seriously by the only people in congress who matter -- the Democrats who control both houses. The Tea Party conservatives not only don't want to pay for their mistakes they don't want to admit they even made mistakes while Bush and the Republicans ran the country's economy into the ground. Instead they want to blame the current president and the current congress. It isn't a coincidence that now that the Democrats are in power these fiscally concerned conservatives have suddenly found their voice. The honest Tea Party protestors will need to divorce themselves from any affiliation with Republicans or conservatives, the people who created the problem in the first place and did nothing, if they want to be taken seriously.. Otherwise the only thing these protesters can expect in the end is a lot of tea but no sympathy.