funjumper101

Rush, I have an offer I'd like to make to you. Let me waterboard you. If during it I can get you to say it's torture, then it's torture. If you puss out, you lose and have to shut the fuck up. So, what about it, gonna puss out? Wow, you really are getting desperate why should I take a bet like this? For two reasons I ask this. 1st water boarding is not a pleasant thing. It has a purpose and reason. To make a bet about it is not one of them 2nd the simple fact you have resorted to this shows you have lost already and I will not "shut the fuck up" In other words, you puss out. Sean (Chickenshit) Hannitty, the second. It isn't torture, so you say. In spite of all evidence to the contrary. It the idiots who feed you information told you the sky was green, you would say that too, even though anyone can see that it isn't. PARROT MODE ON!!!

That makes him a hero and a fine citizen, if you are a righty.

How else can you explain the disconnect between the factual historical record and what is being said by the righties? The facts are indisputable. We, the USA, executed and imprisoned people of other races for actions that are now being excused by the righties. In other words, if you are a righty, we'll hold people of color accountable for what they do to our soldiers. If you are a righty, we won't hold our people acountable for the same exact actions that were performed on non-white people. If that isn't racist, what other explanation is there? Are the facts in dispute? Did we, or did we not, execute and imprison Japanese soldiers for waterboarding US Soldiers? On what rational basis can any moderately educated US citizen argue that waterboarding is not torture?

I wrote this for another thread. Given that the righies are still spewing their bullshit that what was done was "not" torture, it is time to start a new thread on this matter. Begin>>> There is a huge disconnect between what righties profess to believe in, and the practical reality of what those beliefs really mean, and what the results are. You defend the indefensible. We executed people for torturing US POWs during WWII. Righties actions and words show me that they believe that the following is true - 1. Yellow man tortures white man = war crime with imprisonment or death as penalty 2. Brown man tortures white man = war crime with imprisonment or death as penalty 3. White man tortures brown or yellow man = OK as long as a legal pretext existed at the time. No need for investigation or prosecution. You folks are wrong. Totally and completely wrong. Excusing crimes of this magnitude is totally un-american. Have you no shame? In my opinion, those that are trying to cover up the truth deserve as much scorn and derision as can possibly be applied. Deal with it. You earned it.

You are male, correct? Allow me to point out a minor detail regarding unplanned pregnancies - Birth Control is NOT 100% effective. The anti-choice folks always seem to overlook this inconvenient fact. Given your strong feelings on this matter, what positive things do you do with regard to supporting unwanted children? Do you contribute to any charities that are directed towards caring for children? Volunteer any time anywhere? I doubt it. I'll bet that your extreme concern about children starts at conception and ends with delivery, like the vast majority of the anti-choice crowd.

This definitely is not OK. It is bad enough that the police can subpoena the ECU and the GPS system from a vehicle that has been in an accident. Now they can attach GPS tracker/loggers without a warrant? That is not right. For those considering a new car purchase - the GM On-Star system integrates GPS tracking, recording, and reporting. Live for one year, like it or not. A very good reason to NOT buy a GM product, IMO.

I was shat upon in a different way. True story - I lost a laptop computer to a load of birdshit. I was walking between buildings with an open laptop. When I walked under the trees by the building I was headed to, the laptop sceen went FLASH, then blank. The big nasty wet load hit the power button dead on and went around the outside of the switch. The laptop was dead, very dead. The moboard and power supply were toast. The hard disk was still good. So was the RAM. It was out of warranty, so it got tossed. My boss and two colleagues were walking with me, so I had witnesses. We all started busting up laughing when it happened and we figured out what happened. It still cracks me up thinking about it.

What kind of crazy topsy-turvy world do we live in when "liberal" California outlaws same-sex marriage, and has some of the most stringent marijuana-usage laws, and "conservative" New Hampshire and Maine are legalizing gay marriage, and both states currently have proposals to decriminalize pot?? It appears that the crazy topsy turvey world you live in must be right wing world, where facts are meaningless, freedom and equality are for normal white folks only, and nothing should ever change or evolve. California is really quite conservative in many areas. New Hampshire and Maine are fairly progressive. It won't be long now until the folks that speak out against gay marriage will be treated the same way that people who speak out against inter-racial marriage are now. The times are changing, like it or not. All of the same tired arguments were used by conservatives when inter-racial marriage was an issue. Before that, it was segragation. You know, the bullshit about "it's in the bible", and "it has traditionally been wrong" and "We have always done it that way", etc, etc. Same shit, different issue. Wrong then, and wrong now. Try reading some history, actual hiostory as written by those that lived it. I had a really amusing conversation with someone who was opposed to gay marriage. She was going on about how wrong it was, it was against tradition, and that the bible was clear about marriage being between 1 man and 1 woman, etc, etc. Essentially the same talking points we always hear. I asked how she felt about the concept of property ownership and was she aware that until the 1960s, an un-married adult woman could not own property in her own name. (She is single and owns her house) I asked if she was aware that inter-racial marriage was illegal, in some states, as late as 1967. (she is half white/half dark skinned Guatemalan, and her parents are still married) I pointed out that both of those massive social changes went through against tremendous conservative opposition. I asked if she would have been cool with life if the conservatives of those times had prevailed. She was unable to answer for a short while, then said "No, I don't think so". I then asked why she wanted to prevent others from having the freedoms she enjoyed. She didn't have an answer at all. I rocked her world, in a pleasant and non-confrontational way.

There is a huge disconnect between what righties profess to believe in, and the practical reality of what those beliefs really mean, and what the results are. You defend the indefensible. We executed people for torturing US POWs during WWII. Righties actions and words show me that they believe that the following is true - 1. Yellow man tortures white man = war crime with imprisonment or death as penalty 2. Brown man tortures white man = war crime with imprisonment or death as penalty 3. White man tortures brown or yellow man = OK as long as a legal pretext existed at the time. No need for investigation or prosecution. You folks are wrong. Totally and completely wrong. Excusing crimes of this magnitude is totally un-american. Have you no shame? In my opinion, those that are trying to cover up the truth deserve as much scorn and derision as can possibly be applied. Deal with it. You earned it.

Notice the lack of dissenting posts? Say as much or more than the post itself!! Perhaps because it's not relevant to anything? In your world, maybe In the world of people who have a greater understanding of the world as it really is, the posting is not relevant. You have a lawyer who seems to think that it is OK to provide advice that is supposed to make that which is illegal, legal. In case you folks don't get it, that is is not supposed to work in our system of government. If you pull that kind of thing, you shoul expect to be investigated, and prosecuted, if found guilty. That is how the system is SUPPOSED to work. Why is the concept of legal absolutes so hard for righties to understand? Why do you have such malleable values? It doesn't make sense. On one hand, you express respect for the law and disdain for those that don't respect the law. When your folks seriously break the law, under the guise of "saving the country" or "protecting us from terrorist attacks", you all roll over, without fail. It is really scary how little respect you really have for the rule of law, in reality. You all talk a good game. When the facts are shown, there is no "there" there.

Soon the union will own two of the three. Gotta be a good thing, right? I'm actually kind of interested to see what the union does when it becomes the management. Take a look at United Airlines.

The "banks too big to fail" got hundreds of billions in TARP funds, unlikely to be repaid, with few strings attached. Not a lot of whining from the righties about that. Their guys set it up and pulled it off, so not a lot to say. Hmmm. Banks don't actually make anything. They push electrons and paper around. The car companies actually make a product from raw materials, and sell the results. Manufacturing. They actually make stuff. They buy lots of parts from suppliers. Those suppliers are the creditors that will be burned in the bankruptcy. The righties have pitched a bitch about tens of billions that would be paid back. Serious strings would be attached to the money. Unlike banks, car companies have actual assets, like buildings and machinery, for collateral. This should have been an easy thing to pull off. The righties have won their first "victory" in the economic war. Banks were saved, while car companies are expendable. You all should be very proud of yourselves. Thanks for making the economic crisis worse, and longer than it would have been. Great work. It must be time for another tax cut for the wealthy. That is always a good plan. Especiallly when you are conducting a premeditated war of agression, followed by an occupation, with a dash of nation building thrown in for good measure. That kind of work doesn't take any extra money at all.

We know this HOW? "It has been widely reported" simply doesn't mean much. The more "widely reported" a story is, especially by Faux news, Newsmax, etc, AKA, those fine sources of accurate information (Bwa ha ha), the less likely that there is any basis in FACT, for those stories. Righties read that "It isn't torture" and "Dems knew and approved of the torture", and parrot the talking points, like good little sheeple. Wide reporting means bugger all in this day and age. The righties have proved that for them and theirs, if something is said or written, and repeated over and over again, with great emphasis, that it must be true. So they pretend like that which is demonstrably untrue, for example, "It wasn't torture", is a truthful statement, when that simply is a verifiable lie. I have to believe that the righties really do know that they are wrong, but too weak of character to admit it.

You can type a million times that " THEY ARE NOT TORTURE" and each time you would be incorrect. The real world is not like right wing world. Saying or typing something over and over does not make it true. A lie, is a lie, is a lie, no matter how many times it is repeated, or the emphatic way the lie is expressed. The USA, through its operatives, has committed war crimes. The people who commited the crimes, and those that authorized the crimes to be committed, must be held accountable. Will we do it here, or should we turn the matter over to the Hague? I would hope that we, the USA, has the moral strength and ethical power to overcome the right wing apologists, and keep the matter in house. The way some righties are, the Hague may be a better venue, in the long run. Where is the so called respect for the rule of law that the righties crow about? It seems to have gone missing. Situational ethics at their finest. The constitution doesn't mean squat to you folks. Admit it.

if that's the case, then i have been tortured by my government along with every other person who has enlisted in the military. our special forces really get tortured too. when international law coflicts with the defense of our country, then the safety of our country must take priority. It is truly breathtaking how gullible some people are. You see no difference at all between training that you volunteer for, adminstered under controlled conditions, with safe words and the ability to drop out of the program, and the torture adminstered at Gitmo, etc? You see no difference between involuntary confinement, transport thousands of miles from home, "enhanced interrogation techniques" that, in the past, have produced CONVICTIONS for war crimes, administered with no "safe words" or ability to drop out of the program, and harsh military training that ONE VOLUNTEERS FOR? You are telling a sarcastic joke, right? You can't possibly compare the two, with a straight face. This is very simple. Let me explain it in small words. Military training is something you agree to do. "Enhanced interrogation techniques" while jailed, thousands of miles from home, with no way to stop the "enhanced interrogation techniques", is in no way comparable to SERE training. Shame on you for lying about this.

Come on, righties. You have here a stellar example of the results of conservative policies. The reulatory agencies that should be able to correct the behavior of AIG can't, due to the lack or regulatory and enforcement power. That power was taken away via the practical exercise of conservative philosophy. Your stuff WORKS!! In other words, here is what you get, when you folks get what you think you want. Do the actual results of successful application of conservative policies make you proud to be conservative? Why not? Come on, step up and take credit. It is what you believe in, isn't it? Whassamatterforyou? Feeling a bit shameful?

Most of the crap I was involved in was proprty crimes and fencing the results. No weapons were considered. We were aware of the enhancements for entering occupied dwellings and theft of firearms, so those were things we didn't do. Some of the folks I hung with did go on to worse crimes and ended up in jail. I quit early and straightened out. If there had been CCW laws at the time, I don't think that would have factored into the decison making. We didn't commit face to face crimes.

It seems like you are trying to suggest that the piss poor performance of private insurance company would be similar to a government operated and REGULATED national insurance plan. That is a very wild leap of illogic. The story is very clear on the source of why AIG has been treating the "insured" in this manner. The agencies who, in the past, would have had the regulatory and enforcement authority to correct the condition, don't any more. The regulations and enforcement have been gutted. They have NOTHING to work with to force AIG to uphold their contracts. The lack of regulatory and enforcement authority is DIRECTLY the result of the conservative success over the past 30 years. Hence the title of the thread. What AIG is doing (or not doing) is happening because they can blow off adhereing to the contracts signed, with no real harm to the company. No regulation plus no enforcement = conservative policy in action. Why aren't you folks willing to take credit for the resuts of your policies? You should be very proud. It is working out just as predicted. You all knew what the outcome of successful de-regulation and decrease in penalties would bring, didn't you?

Let's say that the current penalty for armed robbery is a five-year sentence. So if someone commits a robbery with a knife, the robber gets five years. But if another robber walks into the same store the next night with a gun instead, then they get 30 years. And this makes sense to you? How about if it's only a fake gun that couldn't really hurt someone - shouldn't they get time knocked off their sentence for that, and maybe serve only four years? Criminals don't think they'll be caught. They aren't deterred by the threat of future sentences. If the current penalties don't already deter them, making it 25-years isn't going to change anything. I would not have written it if I hadn't thought about it and decided that it totally makes sense. I disagree with your conclusion. In my youth, I hung around with a pretty bad crowd. When crimes were planned, what and how to do it were considered, along with possible punishments.

This is a win for the ccw holders. I am pleased. For the record, I am strongly in favor of the first amendment when it comes to gun ownership and responsible use. Use of guns while committing crimes should bring an automatic 25 year sentence, on top of what ever other penalties are assesed. Consent of the governed only works when the government has a healthy respect for the people. Unarmed = powerless.

Conservative business people operate in this manner all the time. If they can fuck you over, they will. The same folks often hold themselves out to be "good christians" and "highly ethical". I have the unpaid invoices to prove it. Marc writes - These jobs. These people knew the risks and what they were getting into for big money. If someone is going to take a job like this then you had better understand the benifits (is insurance) before you take the job. If the insurace company is screwing them, well that is another story

What a pleasant story - http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-contractors17-2009apr17,0,5505250.story Why should an insurance company pay claims that they can weasel out of? From a conservative perspective, this is just good business practices.

IF, and only if what was done was torture. It was not. It appears that you are doing the same thing you always do. What could make you think that waterboarding is not torture? Conviction in 1947 and during the Viet Nam war, for those that did it, aren't proof enough for you? John McCain himself said it was torture. Does it have to be on drudge and newsmax to become believeable to you? What would it take? A memo from the Justice Department? I believe that already happened. Post links to back up your assurtions and dont bother with McCain, he changed his tune durning the compain when he stoped licking the balls of the lefties to try and get elected. Oh, and McCain was the poorest fucking choice the party could make. I would only vote for him because I knew we would get what we got now if did not win Marc, there is this really cool site on the web. Give it a go. the URL is http://www.google.com If you type words in the box in the center of the screen, links to sites that have those words come up. I am sure that if you give this site a try, you can find the information that you are seeking. The very first thing that comes up when I search for "waterboarding convictions" is a link to a Washinton Post article. The URL is http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html Here is a site with pictures, http://waterboarding.org/water-based_torture_history_with_pictures Now that you of this really cool site, you can find out all kinds of useful stuff. Please remember, like Newsmax, just because it is on the web, doesn't make it true. Have fun.

IF, and only if what was done was torture. It was not. It appears that you are doing the same thing you always do. What could make you think that waterboarding is not torture? Conviction in 1947 and during the Viet Nam war, for those that did it, aren't proof enough for you? John McCain himself said it was torture. Does it have to be on drudge and newsmax to become believeable to you? What would it take? A memo from the Justice Department? I believe that already happened.

I totally disagree. A memo from the Justice department saying that illegal activities are legal, DOES NOT IN ANY WAY make those activities legal. All of the people who questioned the orders were correct. It is my understanding that there are quite a few people who did the right thing and lost their jobs and careers, along with their pensions, when the refused to follow the illegal orders from shrubco. Those folks need to be re-instated and the ones that followed the orders, prosecuted. We cannot allow this to happen. If this stands, what is to stop future adminstrations from doing exactly the same thing? The people responsible, and those that carried out the orders, must be held accountable. I see your position as totally un-American and against everything that this country is supposed to stand for. What was done was, and is illegal. It has been for generations. No memo, no matter who wrote it, or who approved it, changes that inconvenient truth. Those that did not have the moral and ethical wherewithal to resist illegal orders must be held accountable. This is very simple. Torture was and is illegal. No memo, no matter who approved it, can change that.