jdthomas

I am just being a concerned skydiver who feels that this particular demo team does not have the appropriate checks and balances in place to make sure that they don't fuck it up again. Twice on the same demo? I'm not happy to see that happen, even if they did get lucky to walk away unhurt this time, and not injure bystanders. I'm sure that Joe wouldn't be as mad as he is now if the CO of that demo had listened or read his letter with an open mind and responded appropriately and said something like "yes we messed up". I have the impression they completely blew him off, as did the town. Hence his anger. This is basiclly the whole of the matter. As I have stated before, least year this team screwed up and placed people in harms way. i spoke with the jumpers at that time and they did not care to listen. I then wrote to the CO of the team to handle this in house. the reply email was basiclly like we don't care what you have to say and leave this alone it's not a problem. This year I went to the event with open mind and wanted to watch a demo for pure enjoyment. However the same team came in and screwed up once again with even more jumpers in a larger area.. wtf? how does this happen? As far as accounts of persons being hit with a canopy, you can take my word for it and trust me or not, but it did happen. My wife, one close friend and myself where all struck with the last jumpers canopy, I think that others where hit as well but can't confirm that because they where behind me and us chiken littles don't have eyes in the back of our heads. One thing that makes laugh is that I am getting support from many jumpers who are active demo jumpers with years and numbers and then trying to get flamed by some guy that just chuckles alot. Thank you for the support on this issue. Joe www.greenboxphotography.com

If that is the case, would that not make the mistakes of this team even more obvious? I would like to see the town on Google Earth so we can all have a good look at the whole area. Where was it? Google Earth's satellite photos suck at least for Fort Scott, KS... mapquest's better. So, what streets bordered the LZ??? http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=home&formtype=address&popflag=0&latitude=&longitude=&name=&phone=&level=&cat=&address=&city=Fort+Scott&state=KS&zipcode= You'll have to zoom in. the map you posted does no good, I am going to post a pic looking south from across the street. this pic may make the LZ look large but if you factor in the height of the building at the south end of the field with your gilde ratio then you reduce the landing area by the height of that building. The wind was coming from the north and the majority of the crowd was also on the north part of the LZ. If you where a jumper doing this demo would you be comfortable landing here, towards the crowd and your only outs are roof tops of other buildings? Joe www.greenboxphotography.com

I am posting a few more pics here. the firts one is the team leader, he also landed next to the poles and with his canopy going over into the crowd. the second is of a female jumper who tried to sink it in and hit pretty firmly, but she was closer to the target placed by the GC. next pic is the first jumper laughing about the landing mishaps and staing that the landing areas "only get smaller from here" to his friend. Last pic is the only non eventfull landing pic that I have. This jumper knows his canopy well and is a good pilot, he sunk it in for awhile and landed without a problem, he seemed to be the only good canopy pilot in the bunch, at least this day. www.greenboxphotography.com

www.greenboxphotography.com

Peanut I don't know you, I don't know TK, I have never spoken with him, seen him or sent him and email. so to say that I am on some team with him is BS and the first of many assumptions on your part. You are correct in the fact that I am not now nor have I ever been in the military, I was in the middle of the testing process for the military when I was injured in an accident and lost my spleen and could not pass the physical after that. My family like yours is a military family and I had all intentions to join the military. I currently continue to support my brother who has done two tours of Iraq and one tour of the stan. I support troops and have 'adopted" soliders with gift packages as well. I support this team to jump into demos and think that it's great until they give skydiving a bad name and then place inoccent people in danger because they make reckless choices in jumping into places that are to small. There are many trees in kansas, once again you seem to make assumptions that are just not true and you feel the Landing area of this place you see in the pics looks big enough but you have not seen it with your own eye to judge so. It is surrounded on four sides by three story buildings and one one side is high tension power lines, it is to tight to jump into, i would not do it nor would I like to see anyone like to attempt that demo. What is worse is that one city block away is a very large unobstructed area that would be great for landing in. This team has proven two years in a row that they can not land in this space without incindent? How is that attacking them or bashing the military? get off your high hoarse and look at the facts of this and will see that I am not out to get them, they are out to get themselves, or someone standing by the side lines trying to have a good time. if thats how your military works then you can keep it. Other random info for you to digest, I don't want to do a demo for this town celbration, and if I did i would not do it in the location these guys have choosen to do so. My D# is not posted because thats personall info that i don't care to post on a public fourm, if you would like it I will send it or you can look it up at uspa. next is that I am not going after these guys because of my ratings.. maybe if I was it would be the S&TA rating and not the pro. As far as leading my wife (who is a jumper, not just a jumpers wife) or friends into the landing direction of these jumper is another of your assumptions. The jumpers landing in all directions not just in the direction of wich I was standing. I happend to be in the path of two of the jumpers. the wind was to the North (what little wind there was) and i was standing in the east side of the landing area. No one was lead into any area and my friends where in many spots, it just so happens that a few of them that where already standing where i went. Mr Peanut, I am sorry that you feel that I am bashing the military, but you are wrong. My motoavation to this post is information on an event that should not have happend and did. and lastly I am sorry that you tend to have a problem with staying sober or on the wagon, perhaps you should seek some help with this problem as it's not something you should brag about, a drinking problem is really not that cool there chuckles...... "3-Yes, to causing you trouble because of the discontent you spread on our military. I knee jerked and threw some back. I will apologize for my quick and hasty remarks (IF you did not intend bad will on our military)." Lastly your apology is not accepted, I did not bash the military and you need to think before you speak. you go on the attack and then say sorry just incase. be soild in one or the other! Joe www.greenboxphotography.com

Peanut4040 I am not sure what you are saying because your post seem to be random at best, I could guess that you just disagree with what i have posted and want to cause problems for some unknown reason, perhaps you don't like me, or you do like the GBPT guys and or you you where former military and see me attacking the "professionals" as you call them. I did not lean my wife anywhere, I choose to standbehind the poles because I had a layer of protection in front of me. I have done many demos in the past and know how they can go bad, am I a dumb ass rookie? No, far from it. Perhpas you did not see what ratings I carry and what jump numbers I have. Do I know what demos are? Did you not check my profile? I have had the PRO rating so i could do demos. I think that your post take away from what ever discredit you are trying to give me and infact just vaildate them as a serious post and at the same time make you look a bit foolish. If you are going to try to discredit someone or make them look bad at least form some structure to your post. Thank you for your input anyway, but I think your strange antics are better directed elsewhere. www.greenboxphotography.com

FYI,The demo team in question IS NOT a Command sponsored or supported military demonstration parachute team. As far as I know, they may or may not fall under NAF (Non Appropriated Funds) for support. So I don't think they have any official military support from anyone ( I am not 100% on this and may be mistaken on this part). Most are retired military and do demos on their time like any other civilian demo team. Regardless, if you have issue with the event, your best course of action is to address all parties involved in a civil manner, be it in person or writing, outlining what and why you felt the event was unsafe and how it could be made safer in the future. As always, I am glad no one was hurt. I have addressed the team in the past and it got no where, I have also addressed the locals that host and organize the event. Last year i got no where, today while on the phone with them I think that they may becoming to understand that yesterdays jump was close to a tragic end. The team uses a balck hawk for thier lifting to alti so I guess they have some support from the military. www.gbpt.us is the web site, i can't see that they are govt funded or not from the site. Like I have said, i have offered my service as ground crew several times and like TK said, the locals take the word of the GBPT over mine as they tend to view those guys as experts and view me as average jumper guy with no knowledge. www.greenboxphotography.com

oh great midwest freefly legend jimmy Coiner how dare you call the lspc boogie the greatest when we all know that couch freaks is an incrediable boogie that is also thrown in the honor of your birthday.. howabout calling it one of the greatest midwest boogies ever? Just giving you hell Jimmy Coiner. www.greenboxphotography.com

TK I should ahve just said YES this is my answers as you pretty much summed it up correctly. Thanks Joe www.greenboxphotography.com

to reply to some of the questions here. Keith, My position on this is that these guys seem to be unsafe, last year i went as support to watch jumpers celebrate my home town festival and upon arrival I learned where these guys intended to jump and thought is was a bad choice. I voiced my thoughts then to both the crew and the jumpers. I was not listend to and the jump went on and people where put in jeporady by the teams poor choice to jump into a very small area with a large crowd. Ayt that time I did file a report with the C/O and it fell on deaf ears becuase the C/O is actually one of the jumpers. This year I was pleased when I heard they where going to land in a larger area and then upset when it all went down hill. I have tried to talk with local oficals but they see me as an outsider on this because these guys are army and that some how must translate to having more knowledge then some guy who just jumps. One this date the C/O was also jumping and he was the first guy to land and also hit the same poles that the jumper in the pics hit. one of my major problems with this is that they feel thier skill level is such that this was doable jump when the history of this jump has proven otherwise and when advice is given to abort the jump this team still chooses to jump. In this action they place themsleves and the locals of this town in danger. these locals include many of my friends and family members who want to just watch jumpers and have fun in doing so. they don't want to be placed in danger by reckless actions. I have talked with many people about what route i should take in reporting this, including higer ups in the USPA even though this is somewhat of a military matter and all suggested posting this here as well as direct links. In answer to many other questions, yes there was a WDI and I did post that the weather was stormy but at the time of the jump was decent enough to make a safe skydive. One last note, yes Keith I have PRO rating and many other ratings, even S&TA and as such I saw nothing safe about the actions of these jumpers. I may have a few thosuand jumps and 14 years of jumping and would never consider jumping into this location espically when other places are near,larger and safer for crowds. and yes I have spoken with local officals about this to educate them. Joe www.greenboxphotography.com

Quote I guess by the pictures and your first hand witness of the event, you could say he screwed up, and got lucky not to get hurt. reply] Yes he was very lucky as was the other jumpers, there where actually two strikes at this pole area, the first was the team leader and the next was this jamie Lynn guy. The other jumpers left diviots as well, just in more of the middle are of the LZ. I just can't believe that last year they put a guy on a roof top, the next day (last year) they had a team member break an ankle and then this year they get a Larger LZ and all the jumpers eat shit at landing.. thier skill level must go down with larger lz's or something. Some of the stuff that gets me is that they left a broken and exposed box as if it did not matter to them and I do feel that this team as a whole owes this crowd an apology for the recklessness of thier actions. I can't imagine the drama that would have unfolded for many of those people staning behind me in the crowd had this jumper impaled himself on any of those 3 poles sticking up or got hit by the electricity had he hit the lines to his right. senseless stuff. www.greenboxphotography.com

I'm sorry but if the town truely does have that perception, that's one dumb arse town So you think the town is full of dumb ass people because for two years in a row 5 jumpers come pile it in right in front of the crowd? How could you not feel that skydiving is dangerous thru the action of these jumpers? Well i would think that these jumpers are dangerous, not that an entire sport is the same. I see MotoGp crashes but i dont view the entire motor sport as a crash waiting to happen, I would like to think your town is clever enough to be be able to discern the difference, but you know your town better than I I would say that based on the verbage I heard from the town that most people would feel the sport is dangerous and with the help of media it is only backed by actions like that of these jumpers.. alot of people are more well versed on motor sports of all types but few people ever see skydivers and have no idea what is about. Joe www.greenboxphotography.com

I'm sorry but if the town truely does have that perception, that's one dumb arse town So you think the town is full of dumb ass people because for two years in a row 5 jumpers come pile it in right in front of the crowd? How could you not feel that skydiving is dangerous thru the action of these jumpers? www.greenboxphotography.com

here are a few more pics. Weather and landing area plus one other jumper about to eat it. the last one I call the artist and his work, if you note the fact that those poles are blunted keep in mind that his riser hit the red ones while he was in flight! this jumper is very lucky that he did not impale himself on these poles or get shocked by any hot wires. these boxes that they hit, left broken and unreported seem to be phone boxes. www.greenboxphotography.com

Last year I went to my home town for a festival and to watch the green beret parachute team jump into the down town event. This event called good ol days is in Ft Scott kansas, a very small civil war military fort and not a modern military base. (just back ground info) Upon my arrival I hear that these guys are to jump into a town intersection, well the kind of did. One guy made it in and the other guy trailing the flag landed on a roof top and his flag weight would have impacted the crowd below had it not been for a metal awening above the sidewalk. I made a post about that event here and wrote the teams CO about this and get little response from them about the danger of jumping into a very uncontrolled crowded area. This year was far worse, and part of what made it worse was half a city block was missing from a previous fire and the team had a larger LZ and still placed many people in danger. Not one team member landed uneventfull during this demo and now the town has a perception that all skydivers get hurt upon landing and that it's dangerous.. we all know the dangers of jumping but we don't have to take it to demos and give merit to the perception! I am going to let my anger slide down a bit and just post these pics and file a report with the top brass of this outfit after I chill out and try to remain professional as possible about this. I will post a pic of the crowd that was directly behind me and many of them where my close friends and thier children. they know me as a jumper and tailed me thinking i knew where to stand.. I wish they had moved when I told them these guys would chow before they even exited the chopper! In the pic you will see who i think is jumper Jamie lynn imapct a steel pole. If it had not been for the pole snagging his riser he would have run into myself and others, his canopy did infact hit my wife (whi also jumps) and I. I will also post pics of the weather, it was not ideal to say the least, although the winds where not much at the time of the jump. The team contact is leader@gbpt.us if anyone cares to write these guys, I know that I will be addressing a letter to them with my thoughts soon. Joe Thomas www.greenboxphotography.com

I suspect you are being overly optimistic thinking that an ambulance might show up, and spend an entire day dedicated to a single event for free. But, spread the cost across all the competitors, and some sponsors, it becomes tolerable. We preach "safety first" all the time for sport jumping... So why is it different during competitions??? It can be difficult to put your wallet where your mouth is, but I think it is wise to just plan the expense of having an ambulance on standby into the event budget. I have to chime in and say that just yesterday I did a standby at the Amelia earhart flyin and we did it for free. Our service does all standby's for free! It's two fold, One is the PR of it and the next is that they pay us to sit around and wait for calls.. the hosp does not care where we sit per say. As far as EMT/Medics standing around saying what should we do? common question to many of us after we have tried something and it did not work or we have an overwhelming scene. "I have just used blank med and have no response, should we call the code or keep doing blank...." could be taken as a few people who do not know what to do I guess.. Anyway working a skydiving injury can be tricky and to all these guys that rush out to get your gear off your buddy so we don't cut if off are really risking your buddys life.. leave the gear on, let us cut it off if we need to. spinal injuries are tricky, moving someone around is a bad thing.. only move them if you are protecting an airway! I am sorry about the loss of your friend, we have all lost friends to skydiving and it sucks, I actually became and EMT years ago to make a diffrence if I was on DZ and an accident went down. I now work at EMS fulltime and still get used at DZ's from time to time.. I would prefer not and for this never to be the case, but at least I am there to help instead of standing around. I would encourage many of you to become first responders or EMT's, the classes are not that bad and you can make a diffrence! Joe www.greenboxphotography.com

Wow thats jimmy coiner the midwest freefly legend with an RW suit on!!!!! Didn't I just hear an interview with him last week on skydive radio? Now he is flying RW as well.. crazy!!!! www.greenboxphotography.com

I wonder if the midwest freefly legend Jimmy Coiner will be there? www.greenboxphotography.com

wife and I did the alaska cruise last year, i am not now nor will I ever going to be a good pirate as I get sea sick no matter the med intake level. i spent the week sick and most of the time in bed.. i would feel better (not throwing up) when we hit shore. I am one of the few that had a bad cruise I guess, but when I get in a boat bigger then my kayak I just get sick! Having said all of that i would recomend the cruise as the service was great, the rooms where nice and alaska was just to big to describe. Joe www.greenboxphotography.com

seen that a few times myself.. I like how the red toggle has rubbed color off onto the risers.. www.greenboxphotography.com

A week ago this past sunday we got rained out on our b17 flight, but this sunday we got our flight in. I have a few pics of the flight and none of them do it any justice in how cool it was. the weather was perfect and we enjoyed the open sun roof the plane has. The plane name is the liberty belle. pic 1, view out of the sunroof of kc downtown airport pic 2 is my wife standing in the sunroof pic 3 is for the nascar fans, it's the kansas speedway www.greenboxphotography.com

I was there two years ago and could not bring myself to spend the money for the flight, but it did look like they where having fun. www.greenboxphotography.com

i used to be an every weekend at the dz guy. could not miss it for anything and I found that it cost me so much in the long run. Yes it has become somewhat of a bore to me in some since of the word, I still enjoy skydiving but now I am enjoying the kayak that I own, the skateboard I have in the trunk of my car, the dogs that I take to the park and most of all my wife who is just the best thing that ever happend to my life.. and bonus that she jumps as well.. but we have a healthy balance of jumping now, and now that I am enjoying weekends away from the dz the more i realize I spent way to much time there in the past. Tandems started to burn me out, students where fun but i don't miss them and helping pack rigs always sucked! Have fun jumping, keep a balance of personall life and jumping life if you can. Joe www.greenboxphotography.com

I hear that the midwest freefly legend Jimmy Coiner may be there. here is a pic of jimmy just so all the ladys will know who they will be going to the end of the runway with. www.greenboxphotography.com

my wife and I have rescue dogs and we love them.. when we move in to the country we will recue another bring the total to three. With my rigging service i donate half my "profits" to a local no kill shelter, every repack gets the shelter 25$.. i could use the cash as I am a very poor college student, but those dogs need the cash more then I do. attached is natasha and Kaci our rescure dogters. www.greenboxphotography.com