Darius11

So if I bring up a poll that Iraqi took and the majority stated they want the US to leave would you change sides or would you criticize the poll? Come on man do you want me to copy and paste Collin Powels Speech. WMD, possibly nuclear an imminent danger………..All of that was not true. Not true to me = False you can spin it all you want bro. But every reason they gave at the beginning of the war was completely false. Even the administration admitted that there was no WMD it was an intelligence brake down. I don’t know what else to call it but false. Maybe that’s the issue to understand it you have to be able to look at the whole picture you cannot just look at one angel. The capability usually is a good indictor of tactics used. I am sure of they had F-18 they would not be using them selves to carry bombs As for bringing up the past: That is to give you perspective. Maybe if we can see we have done the same thing (Which is to use methods of warfare that at the time of use were considered barbaric and uncivilized, but we did it because it was the only way to fight a stronger foe) when faced with the same odds. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

I agree 100%. Unfortunately suing has become a business and many times we reward people for being fucking stupid. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

So, it is only the "truth" if you define and belive it? there are facts before discussed, and in Johns post that you reject and I think/know are the truth. Like what? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Again your statement can be applied to some Suicide bombers not all. I really hope your not claiming that every one who is fighting us in Iraq is imported and there are no Iraqis that want us out of there land. Here is a question for you. What do you say when most Iraqis say they want us to get the fuck out? Do they not have a right to want that? I hope you do agree that the reasons given to start this war were false so what’s are excuse? I understand collateral damage when people are fighting for a grater good, but how do you explain the tens of thousands of people we have killed when the original goal of the invasion has been proven to be false? That’s a big deal. I also love the uniform argument. We have a superior army if they were carrying a flag or waring uniform it would take less then a week for us to kill them all. That’s like wondering why an undercover cop doesn’t ware his badge to the big drug deal. Here is your answer not to get killed. Why do they use suicide bombs because they don't have a trillion dollars. We the US founding fathers were the inventors of gorilla warfare which the English thought was savage and barbaric, but guess what we did it because that was the best option we had to fight the invaders. Were the people who fought for the independence of these country cowards? I don’t think so I think they were smart and they fought the best way they could for their land. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Really Who? And I hope by Muslim leader you are speaking of a president or a king of a country and not some crazy religious psycho as religious psychos have plenty counterparts in other religions as well. Again FACT for you John. The president of this country called 3 countries, which had NOTHING to do with 9-11 or any attack EVER on US soil the Axis of evil, as he mentioned that we must start a Crusade. If you want to claim Irans invovment please remeber we are the guys who armed OBL, and Sadam and god knows who else. As for civilians getting killed which is horrible no matter who is doing it lets not forget that we win by a long shot when you compare numbers, and we have the most sophisticated army in the world. What’s are excuse? When you compare that to people who have no other way to fight back I think it should be obvious to rational thinkers of who is guiltier. The one who starts a war that did not need to be started or the people trying to kick invaders out of their land? We invade a country for no reason or false reasons, there fore every single civilian that has been killed by us in Iraq simply did not need to be killed, As the cause we gave for this war did not exist it was false. It doesn’t get any simpler then that John and honestly I think you will never see the truth or even be able to accept the Facts. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Not implying that you deny the truth. But I know many that do or simply do not see it. Many who have made up there mind regurdless of the facts. Our disagreement is about perspective which I can understand we all have different ones. I am sure you have noticed we have plenty of people who simply can not ever admit that we have done any thing wrong. There is always an excuse or an explanation, which is fine, as long as we realize the other side also has excuses and explanations. I think to state that it is done just because they are hungry to kill or monsters is just ignorant. They are fighters who are willing to sacrifice their lives for what they believe much like the kamikazes' of Japan. It is viewed as honorable to die for your cause in many cultures; it is a gross over simplification to think there just Muslims and crazy. Many of the people we call Heroes die for what they believe. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Agreed Life is less meaning full in societies where poverty is high and there is simply a lake of hope and less to live for. I guess that depends on a case by case bases. Again depends on the case some sucide bombers don't have the US in mind at all, but i belive you are ref to Iraq. I think when criticizing the US one must always ask what would they (other countries) do if they had our power. At the same time I don’t believe patriotism means we should deny truth. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

So you believe there only motivation is to kill and there is no other reason for there action? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Trust me when I say your post does not surprise me either. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Thats why. When I say I know what you mean I really do. I have an older brother who has had the families support and still lives at home at the age of 37. I have not only been on my own before I was 18 I was even helping my mom out until I was 27 (yea I know I am stupid). I know how fuckup it feels when they never have money or time to help you out but some how mercilessly they find time and money for others over and over again. I just think because we can take care of our selves they always assume that we will be fine and the better you are at it the less help you get. Totally unfair I agree and often very frustrating. You might be better off working even harder and just relying on your self. Cutting all ties with them is an option as well (this is something I have not been able to do even if logicly it make sense one way relationship and all that). I wroth off getting help from anyone a long time ago it has made things easier. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Unfortunately we have a lot of stupid people. People who can’t afford the time to do any research of there own or have no interest to do so. They depend on the media solely for their information not realizing the information they receive is heavily slanted towards one side or the other. The most unfortunate thing is this. I don’t believe it has ever been any easier to find correct information and do your own research as it is now. Unlike many countries most Americans trust there media so when they say insurgents few ask why are we calling them that it is just assumed to be true. I think they have changed the name to homicide bomber so every time it is mentioned people are reminded that people died and to have no sympathy for the bomber. When suicide is mentioned (which is the correct term) some one might actually wonder what lead the man or the woman to be willing to kill him/her self to hurt there enemy. God forbid if we ever think our enemies are human and any thing like us. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

The Government should have no say on people donating their organs. It is absolutely preposterous for the government to assume they have the right to take your organs unless you stated otherwise. To assume permission unless otherwise specified is absolutely ridicules and especially wrong if the government is doing it. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

I believe we are already in the middle of a recession. Part of my business is selling goods to the government. Immediately after the first year of the War in Iraq we noticed a huge drop in business from the government. The government has to spend their money by the September of every year, and this year we did not have a single sale. It has been a huge drop the last 4 years. That along with higher gas prices which effect every thing, the increased cost of manufacturing raw materials, and the loss of consumer confidence is going to fuck a lot of small business like my self. Personally I am about to lose everything I have worked my ass of to get, even considering selling all my gear just because I will need cash on hand. So yes there is a recession, I don’t know who to blame or will waist my time trying to figure out whose fault it is. Shit happens and all we can do is deal with it. I think the most important thing in the economy is consumer confidence, as once people stop spending and money stops changing hands then we all lose. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Maybe your mom didn't hug you enough? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

God I love reading stuff like this. It makes me feel like I am not the only one. HalleFUCKINGlujah Sister I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

India, China? how are they doing in the standard of life? Dude if you ever make it here i make the best Ribeye steak grilled and aged in teriyaki pineapple marinade. Hell yea I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

You might be able to find one thing that’s done better in some country or a few things that are done better in some other country, but When you compare the financial prosperity, the geographical advantages, Best higher education schools, etc. etc I can go on and on. Simply put we have it all. There is a reason people still risk there lives to come to this country or wait years and years. Most people think of the Mexicans when speaking Immigrant whose main motivation is financial prosperity, however there are tons of people who are educated, have good jobs and are financially secure who want to be here. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

So how is that any different from pretty much any where in Europe, Canada, Australia or New Zealand? Do anything you want and not starve is the minimum, you can also take it to the limit in this country if you wish. There is reason America has more millioners and billionaires then anywhere else in the world. The security that you can mow lawns (as I did as one of my first jobs) and still have a decent life is great, but knowing that if you are successful and a bit lucky you can have a race track and race Enzos (or whatever your into) with your friends if you like. The limits are higher for more people here then in Europe. True we have more excess then most other countries but that’s all apart of prosperity. The other freedom that you have in the USA that I believe exists no where else is culture freedom. Because there is no great tradition or no great one race you have less mental restrictions on how things should be and can be what you want. Plus I can get a 16oz steak with a baked potato and a beer for 12 bucks, Try that in most places in Europe.

I am not surprised at all. This country is still the land of opportunity. I tell my cousin who will be here in a year or so. The freedom that you get in this country is not about drinking, or being able to go to clubs with girls (he lives in Iran). The freedom is you can be anything you want and not starve. You can have a place to live, a car, and go to school making minimum wage if you have the drive to do so. As for money not bringing happiness: That’s true to a a point. I read a story once about that I believe they had measured 50,000 a year as where money stops mattering. What they meant was if you are making less then that you will have some financial issues if you make close or over that you can maintain your life without much stress. Then your happiness depends on you. I really wish people would appreciate this country more. This land has been blessed. We have 4 seasons, you can move any where you want depending on what you like, From a very young age you can work and make your own living if you like, and most important you can be independent of others. As for vacation time: We do spend a lot less vacation then the Europeans or even Iran, but that’s because are standards of living are much higher. We should be grateful to have the opportunity to work hard and play hard. In Iran there is no way a dude like me no matter how smart I was or how hard I worked could achieve what I have here on my own. Granted I no where claim to be rich and live paycheck to pay check like most others. But my life is mine and if I wanted more vacation I could simply not have an HDTV or not have my GTO. Life is about decisions that we make and the priorities that we choose. Here we simply have more option and more things are possible. I wonder how many of us realize that in many countries the 4-6000 dollars worth gear that we throw around is simply not possible to attain by the lower or even middle classes. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

I have noticed right wing media put a huge emphasis on the Hussein part of his name. I kept on thinking why do they keep on bringing it up. I am sure the public is not ignorant enough to think that so many years ago when his parents named him they were fans of Saddam. Surly our public is not ignorant enough to judge someone simply by the name they received at birth? Off course I have been wrong before. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

I don't think anyone is in disagreement with what you stated above. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

$8,000 no $8,000,000 hmmmm that might make me think a bit I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Do you even read my posts? If you are talking about a certain case post the links you have or give us all the facts then we can discuss it, or better yet open new thread. As stated before In countries that are run by ANY theocracies, Freedom is not an option. Remember what the church did not so long ago. Just as the crusaders, the Salem trials and a lot of other bad, violent, cruel, unjust, and horrible things were done in the name of Christianity, things of that nature happen in the Muslim world as well. Both are BAD. Ok let me say this again both are BAD BAD BAD. However neither one of those acts should be your guide to what Christianity or Islam stands for. That’s my point that you either intentionally or unintentionally NEVER GET. Don't feel bad it's not just you. So to make statements about all of the Middle East or all Muslims is simply stupid. The other point is this: We are not hated because we are free, we are hated because of our actions. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Agree with you 100%. I think being fake is the main reason people don’t like her and this did not help. I also find it offensive that this so called feminist has no issue trying to use “crying” and her sex to get sympathy, She also made the comment about all the men attacking her. It just tells me she has no principle her only principle is to get elected and she will say and do any thing to do so. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

now that was funny I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain