Darius11

Have you seen the IDF shoot kids throwing rocks. How about snipers killing woman and child. Dropping a bomb that kills 9 kids. This was not Hamas hiding at a play ground the bomb was dropped on a suburban area. How about running a young American girl over with a bulldozer. Any of those actions seem like things you should be proud off. Just because you got to see what they showed you first hand doesn’t mean that’s all there is or was. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

If you noticed I did not use Aljazerr but I find it very odd that you consider no other source valid other then a Jewish source. I think again here is me using logic . That most Muslim and Jewish sources will be bias. So I do not understand when the BBC and Reuters is added to that list. Once again I think if they would have said what you wanted to hear they would be valid off course until they said something negative about Israel. Again I don’t get that way of thinking. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

That’s the hypocrisy that they seem to miss. What’s the expectation? You are violating intentional law by boarding a ship (that no matter how many time Sunny wants to say) barring a flag of a country that YOUR NOT AT WAR WITH (get your facts straight). There is surprise that the people resisted!!!!!!!!!!??????? What’s the expectation? I love how some like to pretend like the IDF has anything other then a violent history. They have assassinated people (once again against international laws), They shoot mothers with their infants, Use phosphors on schools, and people are wondering why the people on board didn’t just depend on the IDF gentle and kinds hands? I love the justifications they attempted to use. How many times have you seen video of kids throwing rocks, while the IDF shoots bullets don’t forget that’s ok in their book as well. Basically any cruelty is ok as long as its done by the Israelis to others. This is not the first time. The same group here who blindly supports state sponsor murder is the same group that was making excuses for the IDF when their bulldozer ran over an American girl who was protesting. I guess she was just trying to get her 72 virgins as well. Don’t waist your time man. These people have sold their soul they simply look at it as must support my Jewish brothers no matter what. Sad really when you consider that type of thinking has always led to war, and genocide. Then again I think some of the Israeli supporters would have no problem with genocide either as long its there boys doing the killing. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

So your failure to understand the situation subjects us to pages upon pages of YOUR OPINON presented as fact? That explains a lot-thanks. I think your barley two-sentence response, which did not even attempted to argue a point or fact that you view as false or accurate made my point. Thanks. At least now you have the answer to you other observation. If your still wondering why some posters just skip some posters threads your response is why. Because it takes time and energy to write a response that is accurate and based on facts. Unfortunately a waist of energy on you and others like your self. I think a lot of us have just given up on trying explain anything to people who are not looking for reasons they just want sheep who agree with them regardless of the facts. I don;t know why i get sucked in. I have to remind my self having to much hope in people is just as stupied as having none. Lesson learned. Don't argue with Coffe tables. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Last I checked sailing in international waters was not "intending to force a confrontation". Now off course any one who knows Israels history might have assumed that they would use violence. However past violent behavior should not be used as an excuse for current violent behavior. Its not such an emotional issue for me, some of the PMs I have received from dz.comers who are also member of the Jewish faith prove to me how emotional and irrational some of you are on this issue. The only reason they want to excuse Israelis behavior is simply because they share a faith. I am not Arab not Palestinian and don’t even see this conflict as any thing more then a land dispute. I think religion is simply used to motivate the weak minded on both sides. Back the point Intending to force a confrontation would have been if they came in Israeli waters not staying 63 miles (according to the captain) out of Israeli waters. I agree that they knew Israel would most likely act in a violent manner however I don’t see that as excusing Israel for its violence or breaking of international law. Now if they are at war with Turkey then that another issue but last I checked they were not. Also you have to take in too consideration that the people claiming that humanitarian aid is going trough without an issue are the enemies of the very people they claim to give aid too. The same people who did not allow clothes or shoes to be sent. For me the emotions that I feel how any of you could easily excuse such behavior simply because it is being done to Arabs by Jews, and if it was Done to Jews by Arabs you would all be in an outrage. That’s the hypocrisy that gets my emotions going, I truly can not understand that way of thinking. And over and over example after example most of you show the same flaw. You do not judge the action you judge dependent on who is committing the action. As I said before I don’t see the Palestinians as angels who have done no wrong even though some you seem to wish to put me in the black or white shelf in you minds. However this incident Israel fucked up and it cost lives. Now you might want to think the activists were all Jew haters (that would make things easier for many of you) but I bet most valued humane life, and saw a humanitarian disaster and wanted to help. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8 I think Barney Frank had the right idea. “trying to argue with you is like trying to argue with a dining room table” What’s the point when you guys still cant answer the questions. What rules does Israel have to abide by? You know why you can not answer it because your weapon has always been hypocrisy. You mention international law when it is convenient, and excuse it when it shows Israel in a bad light. It is impossible to have a logical conversation with anyone who has chosen a side regardless of facts. It is as simple as this. International waters, under the Turkish flag. If you are having a problem grasping those laws I don’t see the point of arguing any thing more complicated with any of you. Simply put your position is I will support Israel no matter what and then attempted to change your standards. what you consider wrong or right solely depends on who is committing the act and not the act it self. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

When it’s a claim it is very hard to know who to believe, but that is a significant point if true. If there were weapons and rockets on the ships I can understand, but if there was food and cloths then I can’t. I think the only point of my pervious “rant” was to say you have already chosen a side and will twist, turn, and ignore facts just to support your side. Much like Sunny who says he doesn’t believe that Israel would not allow cloths and shoes to be sent. Then when he get s a link he states that all of a sudden Reuters is not a valid source. The other part was a simple question. What rules and laws does Israel abide by ? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Really? Where did you find this information? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

as in what do i send them money, food, ? No i don't However I can understand what motivates them. I can understand how the desperate people of Gaza might view them as heroes or freedom fighters. The satiation is horrible, and it includes horrible actions by both sides. However nothing will ever get solved if one we don’t understand the situations, and two blindly support a side regardless of facts. No one is an angle if you wish to talk about the whole conflict. But on this one Israel broke the law, and the supporters of THIS action should take a long hard look too see if they have remained rational about the subject, or are they just trying to protect there side. As for the media circus I will tell you from personal experience. When it comes to Israel the US media is extremely bias and supportive of Israel, and the Arab media is extremely bias and supportive of Palestine. I do however hold our media to a higher standard then a state run news agency. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

It's helpful when you include quotations, and writing in good English also helps (fuck up world, brake). What I see here is an emotional rant. Or an ESL student I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

No I don’t. Its just angry rhetoric of a people so weak that the only retaliation they are capable of is taking there own lives and using themselves as a weapon. There is always angry rhetoric when something bad happens. We had people here talking about making the whole middle east a glass parking lot Rememeber. That’s killing more then a billion people man, woman , and child. I didn’t take that seriously either. No cloths and shoes allowed, no concert, no building equipment. Honestly what do you think will happen? Rainbows and happy songs?? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

I always support the side that is logically right, I don't just side with the people who look like me or believe as I do. That’s what the Nazi, the KKK , and many other ignorant groups do. It always leads to death and horble events. That’s why it is good to have standards, that’s the only way to live in a just world. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

No According to international law Israel is not within its legal boarders and should not be building settlements on occupied land. Something that it keeps on doing regardless of what the international community thinks. You cant have peace when every single day you are acting on war. And yes I do believe Israel has the right to exist I just think that’s a really stupid question to ask me. You try to void all the factual evidence, international law, the UN , Humanitarian law, Rules of war etc. that we bring up by trying to make anyone making these arguments seem as a racists. That’s why I am not answering your questions. You don’t have to hate Jews, or be a member of the Nazi party to disagree with Israelis actions. Most of the world does simply because they are not willing to give them a free pass. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Sorry will change it. Didnt think that was a PA. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Its called having a standard. When you condemn an action you should condemn it for all not just the people you don’t like. When you change your standards depending on who is acting and not the action. You become a hypocrite. It was a great example if you open you eyes. The same action took place just change the names and you have a different reaction. What does that tell you about your self? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

What did i do? Let me know and i will edit the post didn;t relize i made a PA to any one. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Thx for porving my point and not answerring the question. As expected. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

LOL wow man Really thats your excuse. So you think there making up that cloths and shoes were not allowed in until recently? You guys do realize that blind support for people just because they share the same religion is just as stupid as blind hate for someone just because they are different then you right? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Read above. and I have answered a lot more questions then had my questions answered. You see in the world of facts and laws all of you who have protected Israel have been proven wrong over and over again. Because you can not set a standard. You voice international law, we can mention incident after incident where Israel has done the same or worst. You talk about the UN, you excuse anything that does not support Israel, and void any standing the UN has. Basically people who change there standards only dependent on who is committing the action and not the action it self have no ethical back bone. You change your standards to fit your views, you don’t form your views on logic, laws, or any standard. We have been trough this a hundred times. You tell me What laws does Israel have to abide by ? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Just so they don't miss it. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

GOD i hate your stupid games. Trust me when i say its not because your clever that i am not answering its becuase the game you play are so fucking retarded. Lets try again Is HAMAS the democraticly elected goverment of GAZA? or a terorist group? You cant have it both ways now as much you want to. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

So let me see, They tried to shoot paintballs, when they tried to board a ship by force. Got hit by clubs and shot and killed people, and that’s ok in your book? To me that’s like saying a bank robber has the right to kill the bankers if they hit him with a stapler. Off course the bank robbers are the Israel’s they are ones braking the law. I think your first mistake is assuming Israel had the right to board the ship to begin with. Let me know if you need any help understanding inetrnational law, or a reminder of how many of them Isreal has voilated. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

News FLASH most of the world considered Israel as a terrorist nation. NOT ALL THE WORDL REVOVLES AROUND WHAT THE U.S. THINKS. Our blind illogical, and hypocritical support for Israel is one of the reasons we are hated. Just like many of the posters who blindly support Isreal on here the US has done the same. It doesn;t stick to rules. We tell everyone else to abiode by them and give isreal a pass every time. Its not hard to see why people would be upset. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

I love how in your fuck up world Israel can write it own laws, and do as they wish, and then brake the same law they wroth. Again does Israel have to abide by any laws in your book? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSLDE6500DT I know it wont change your mind, but if this can teach you that you are not logical or rational when it comes to this argument or even take a step in the right direction its worth a try I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain