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We gals are just sooooo flexible...thats why guys love us

I'm sorry you are having a bad experience. At a large DZ, such as Deland, the experienced jumpers tend to be very, very, busy. Either they are on a team, jumping with an organizer, or maybe they just have a group of buddies they want to spend time with and make a bunch of jumps with. I can't speak for anyone else but on some days, when I am jumping hard, I'm lucky to have time to pack for myself, complete a dirt dive, eat, and go to the bathroom before I have to meet the plane. And while I would like to stop and chat...sometimes I simply don't have time. I don't know that there is a pecking order, but as with any sport, hobby, work, life...you have to pay some dues. Don't expect to be asked on every hot load, especially if you haven't really gotten to know the regulars. A good first step is to ask the DZ about load organizing. Many large DZs provide this free of charge. It gives you a chance to be on some exciting skydives and generally, the organizers will be one of the experienced regular skydivers so it gives them a chance to get to know you. And how about the end of the day...do you spend any time after jumping is over getting to know the regulars??? This can be the best way to make friends. The same jumpers who were rushing around with no time for you in the afternoon are usually willing to drink a beer and tell skydiving lies after the jumping is done. Be patient, and persistent...people will get to know you and you'll be making friends and really great skydives soon

Here's the thing...and this is not a knock directed at most students. But most don't have the knowledge to make an informed enough decision as to what a lot of experience is. When I was a student...500 jumps sounded like a lot. It sounds as if you are saying that if you knew then what you know now, you wouldn't have skydived with the instructor who had 500 jumps. My point is that most students have confidence in their instructors because it doesn't occur to them to do otherwise. When I began JMing I didn't go around telling my students how many jumps I had, not because I thought they would be scared that I had so few, but because it is arrogant to spew jump numbers to a newbie. I will tell them if they ask...but I've never, ever, had one say..."No way....you don't have enough experience for me."

You said it yourself...you determined you couldn't land it safely. If money is more important than your life, you may want to take up another hobby. Look at this way...it's just stuff, and stuff can be replaced eventually. But you can't.

I didn't say there are no idiots carrying AFF ratings. I'm sure there are. There are plenty of idiots everywhere. But if we eliminate the idiots...who would we hang out with??? For the most part, the AFF cert process weeds out the weak and the ones who just plain can't hang.

Great minds think alike

When I went through the AFF cert course 7+ years ago...I had 480 jumps or so, mostly at a turbine DZ so I had a good deal of FF time. There was no doubt in my mind after the course that I was 100% capable of doing my job. I give credit to the evaluators for that...they did more stuff than I can possibly talk about here to shake me during freefall. I am pretty confident that the certification process is a good one and if you don't have what it takes (believe me some of the best skydivers in the world don't) to instruct another person and then stay with them when it gets down and dirty...you don't get your JM with the current process. Another thing I've learned is that jump numbers is not always the best indicator of what kind of skydiver you are. Would you rather have an instructor who has made 500 jumps over a 15 year period or one who has 500 jumps in a 2 year period???

I once jumped on New Year's Day when the ground temp was 20 degrees.... Sooooooo cooooold Layer, layer, layer, and invest in some wind stopper gloves. Usually, the only body parts which really get cold are my face and hands.

Well I'm just jealous because you live in Colorado...climbing, skiing, mountaineering, and skydiving.

Sooo not true. One of the reasons I do more rock climbing than skydiving anymore is because it's so much less expensive. Once you get the gear, you aren't paying $20 a pop to climb. Just go to Camp 4 in Yosemite if you don't believe me...those people know how to live cheap.

Kris, Kris, Kris...did I teach you nothing....you may think those things....but you can't use your outside voice

Pretty good description. When I execute...I tend to push down a little with my arms...but I don't de-arch. I've never attempted with dive loops. I would think it would work.

Kris, Ahhh...the old Cushing days. It's good to know that you remember me with fondness (mistress indeed) Nice to hear from you

The biggest drawback I have seen from a S/L or IAD program is the inability of students to gain stability during their initial solo (meaning no S/L or JM deployed parachute) jumps. S/L students tend to get frustrated and quit because of their difficulty in producing a stable body position and stable freefall. This often results in repeated jumps at the lower levels. You do enough 10 second delays and you have paid for your Level 1 AFF. What S/L and IAD students do get, is more intensive spotting training and less aprehension getting out low. AFF students, on the other hand, are able to get the time they need to get stable in freefall with adequate supervision and immediate feedback if there is a problem. Don't get me wrong...I was a S/L student. But it took me a very long time to feel comfortable in freefall and I had to unlearn a lot of bad habits when I began skydiving with other people. It would be nice if there was a program that combined the two...maybe a couple of S/L or IAD jumps, then longer supervised AFF type freefall to work on freefall skills. Just my $.02

The inevitable cut off is bound to happen, especially at a turbine DZ. I will always ask the Darwin candidate, in a non-confrontational way, if he/she realized their awesome swoop cut in front of everyone?? Invariably, whether you ask non-confrontationally or not, this leads to the idiot puffing up and denying that they did anything wrong, or worse, stating that they were low so they had the right-of-way. I make it a habit to set up high...really high, if possible, and keep my head on a swivel. This allows me time to move if need be when the little pocket rockets want to defy gravity.

Soooo cold! Went from 70ish this morning to 50 at noon

I'm with you Bill, the superman as I call it is the cat's meow. I had to unlearn the beach ball stuff. The first time I tried the superman, I popped up so fast that I had to dive back to the formation.

I agree, there is a lot of stuff to learn and not really a lot of time to learn it. Most DZ student programs will give you a study guide for each of the levels. Use it, study it!! Have the skydive sequence memorized before you get to the DZ. Not only will this allow your instructor time to work with you on body positioning and timing, but if you have the skydive memorized...there is less of a chance you will brain lock. Most instructors are not looking for perfection. Heck, I tell my students to expect to make a mistake or two. After all, if you were perfect, what would you need an instructor for??? Remember, the most important thing on the skydive is the pull. All the rest is icing. If you have to repeat a dive, it happens...but don't get obsessed about it. Relax...have fun...and go for it

I think part of the problem...and this is no knock towards turbine dzs, I love them...but most don't put much emphasis on teaching spotting. It's not that they don't teach spotting, it's just that turbine dzs, IMO, discourage new jumpers from spotting loads. This may be because of the time factor, oops I screwed up the spot factor, etc. Especially when GPS spotting is usually so accurate. But if more people spent time actually looking before they jumped...or for that matter, orienting location while in freefall, there would be less chance of this type of injury.

It amazes me how otherwise really safe jumpers lose their minds and neglect a basic lesson of skydiving...spotting.

What a shame the winds wouldn't cooperate. I hope you drank some beer as a tribute to the wind gods. But...having burned a leg pouch off my old Vector after being dragged some 100 yards over a gravel road some years ago...because I just had to jump on a windy day, I think the call was a good one. Just because you can jump doesn't always mean you should.

FYI...found this while researching. How Dangerous is Skydiving? Skydiving is a remarkably popular sport. The United States Parachuting Association has 34,000 members. It estimates that about 350,000 people complete more than 3 million jumps in a typical year. The big question is always, "How dangerous is skydiving?" Each year, about 30 people die in parachuting accidents in the United States, or roughly one person per 100,000 jumps. Look at the US Skydiving Incident Reports to get an idea of the types of problems that lead to fatalities. If you make one jump in a year, your chance of dying is 1 in 100,000. How does the fatality rate in skydiving compare to other common activities? Since most adults in America drive cars, let's compare skydiving to driving. Roughly 40,000 people die each year in traffic accidents in the United States [ref]. That's 1.7 deaths per 100 million vehicle miles. Therefore, if you drive 10,000 miles per year, your chance of dying in a car wreck in any given year is something like 1 in 6,000. In other words, we accept a higher level of risk by getting into our cars every day than people do by occasionally skydiving. You would have to jump 17 times per year for your risk of dying in a skydiving accident to equal your risk of dying in a car accident if you drive 10,000 miles per year. A logical question to ask here is this: Given these statistics, why do we think of skydiving as dangerous and driving a car as safe? The first reason has to do with frequency. At 30 per year, fatal skydiving accidents are infrequent. That tends to make each one newsworthy, so you are likely to hear about them. On the other hand, there are about 110 fatal car accidents every day in the U.S. In a city of one million people, 160 people die every year in car accidents. If you heard about every car accident, you would go insane, so you only hear about a few of them. That leaves you with the impression that car accidents are infrequent even though they happen constantly. The second reason has to do with familiarity. Most people drive every day and nothing bad happens. So our personal experience leads us to believe that driving is safe. It is only when you look at the aggregated statistics that you realize how dangerous driving really is. Okay...I agree...this has been flogged to death. Lets talk about something interesting instead like dental work without anesthesia

What is the airspeed velocity of a winged sparrow in flight??? African or European???? I don't know....AAAAAAAAAAH

No...I meant cow...that's my little stab at sarcasm***

One of my favorite quotes from a Fish Called Wanda (You might remember John Cleese hanging upside down) I'll be using it from now on...just to keep myself out of trouble***