nbblood

I don't really think that it's much of a story really. He stored his goggles in the sock, then stored the sock in his Protec. I never asked him about it, but guessed that it was something he did one day, then just kept doing. Also, he'd loop the sock through the holes in his ProTec, so in freefall it looked kind of like rabbit ears. See the picture here from one of the other threads. Usually right after he'd put his helmet on with the sock dangling out, he'd look at the student and say, "and remember, we take our jobs seriously." That usually come a little while after he'd tell them every night he'd drink a glass of warm milk and a viagra. The milk would help him sleep and the viagra would keep him from rolling out of bed. Or he'd tell the student they could undo their seatbelt because it was hard to skydive with an airplane strapped to their ass. I'll miss that guy! Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

I am one of the TIs he trained. He also helped me immensely in rigging and AFF instruction. And that picture of the tandem with the pig was still on the wall at Spaceland in the instructor room last time I was there. This is a sad, sad day. I will miss him. He was truly a terrific guy! Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

WHY?????????? We have a rigth to hear every word of what they say! BUT, as it is, they did cut the camera's! You're assuming that a news station is a publicly owned entity that somehow has an obligation to what your "rights" are. That is not the case. They are not publicly owned and have no obligation to provide you what you think your "rights" are. They answer to the ratings and what makes them money, not their obligation to the public. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Interesting. Somebody that absolutely cannot and will not forgive calling someone else evil. Interesting. "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone..." I'm just sayin'..... And, no, I'm not condoning dogfighting. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

This is SOOOOO funny.........to first-graders. Seriously, this is immature and totally destroys any credibility to ANY argument. But you know I love ya! Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Fine. I'm not disputing that. Let's talk about how to overcome the problem then. Discussion is great...when it leads to solutions. I don't have any problem with discussion. Everybody gets an A for problem identification. Now what? That's all I'm saying. In the spirit of providing solutions, here's a couple more that have proven effective, so I add to the list: 4. Civil disobedience. Put the policies to the test. (just understand the potential repercussions and be willing to accept them, should said disobedience lead to these repercussions.) 5. Figure out how to be an effective product representative under the policies to retain sponsorship. Demonstrate to a potential sponsor that you can still effectively represent their product without handing out pull-up cords and pitching logoed tents. Demonstrate your potential and effectiveness through action. (This might mean spending time talking up your sponsor's product. Ever seen how NASCAR drivers can manage to spit out every one of their sponsors in 1.6 seconds before every statement they ever make? Something along those lines.) Promote your sponsor's products in media interviews, casual contact with skydivers in the community, participants, and spectators. Explain your sponsors product promotions and demo programs, etc., etc., etc. Represent your sponsor's values through your actions and behavior. Be a representative of the company. If you apply these things, you just might not need pull-up cords and t-shirts. Oh, and if USPA didn't respond, there's probably not enough of an issue to warrant their response. Or perhaps the other side of the argument is more compelling. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Really? Like what? Please explain. I don't know of anyone that was affected, with the POSSIBLE exception of Nomad's POTENTIAL sponsorship. As far as I know, not a single team has lost sponsorship due to the "partner protection", with one possible exception. Please explain how 4 and 8 way teams were affected. Really? Please tell me who has lost sponsorship? Seems to me that I recall seeing members of the PD team on Good Morning America shoots with their PD apparel at the DZ. PD wasn't a "partner." EVERY competitor had the same opportunity to display their sponsors logo. Did you just not get as many pull-up cords and t-shirts as you wanted? My argument remains the same. If people don't like the "partner protection" policy, they should do something about it. Same for the issue of splitting events. Since nobody seems to have a solution other than bitching, here are some potential ways to affect the situation. 1. Contact the implementer of "partner protection". Tell them that as a participant/consumer you are unhappy with their policies. Tell them why. Tell them you expect something different. PROPOSE AN ALTERNATIVE. 2. Boycott events/businesses that participate in activities you don't agree with. Inform the event/activity that you are boycotting and WHY. 3. File legal action against the event/business for activities you deem inappropriate. (Personally I hate this one because virtually every dispute can be resolved without such measures. But hey, it's the American way, right?) There's three prominant measures to do something about it. Personally I recommend starting at the top and working down. Of course, each of these courses are more effective with a large group joining forces to support the argument or cause. So, by all means join forces. Now that I've made that proposal, I'm guessing that nobody was affected the the point that it's worth any of these. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't think so. My gut instinct is that PD is going to spend the same $$ on sponsorship that they would have without partner protection. So is UPT and Bev Suits and Tony Suits and Cypres and.....and....and..... Think about it, really. Who is going to lose sponsorship? My guess.....NOBODY. So it all comes down to not getting a few pull-up cords and trading that perhaps for better than just "good-enough-to-hold-nationals" facilities. So gather the forces. Start the crusade. See who was really affected by trying to gain support for the cause. I'm busy so I'm not available. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

That's because it is two separate issues. They don't HAVE to be the same. This is a total fallacy stating that they both have to be one or the other. I'm not arguing for or against splitting events. But the policy does not have to coincide with how events are sponsored. This argument is complete fallacy at the very basic levels. Personally I don't have a problem splitting events between DZs. So what? Some competitors will have issues though as some of the top competitors in team events are also top competitors in the CP events. They will have to travel to separate DZs. It will be an inconvenience, but as long as the events take into consideration the timeframes to allow competitors to compete in both, I think it will work fine. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Ok, I give up. It was the most devestating thing ever done to our sport. It prevented people from getting their free stuff. We should all grab our torches, tar and feathers, take our vigilante group to the DZ, tar and feather them, and do everything we can to discourage DZs from promoting their business at our expense, because after all, they are only there for us to benefit from. Anything they do for themselves should be terms for dismemberment. Rock on. Get all the people that give a crap enough together and make it happen. Or just badmouth them on the internet and drown yourself in self pity.....I don't care, either way. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Bill, I can't even believe you've tried, twice now, to compare this to Skyride. Whatever. What has Skyride provided back to the community and what has Spaceland. That's as far as you need to go with that argument. But your point about not having to live with it is true enough. We don't......if there's enough support to do something about it. That is my point and I think yours too. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

I would like to consider this, but so far I have not heard what sort of new and unique amenities or services the competitors recieved this year over previous years. You see, hosting the same competition as last year would have been acceptable. If all other things were equal, nobody could reasonably expect any sort of new or unique amenities or services as compared to previous years. However, in this case all things did not remain equal. The DZ did step in and use it's 'home field advantage' to place limitations on the competitors sponsorships in order to increase the value of sponsorship the DZ was offering. So now that the DZ clearly has an advantage over past years host DZs, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that they would be providing new and unique amenities and services. As I mentioned earlier, I still have not heard what these new features were. I understand your point about business and competition in the market place, and all that jazz, but you're missing a key point. Sapceland, in this instance is not operating in the free market. They are hosting an event for an outside entity, in this case the USPA. The USPA holds this meet for the purpose of giving it's dues paying memebers a forum in which to gather and display their skills. For the host DZ to do anything to limit the participation or enjoyment of those members represents a deriliction of duty. If you're going to bid to host the Nationals, you have to understand that for that week it's not your sandbox anymore. You're sharing the sandbox, and you have to consider everyone on the playground when making decisions. After Nationals, have it and fuck over anyone you want. Just for the record, I've been to Spaceland and I think it's a great DZ (this was years ago, and I hear it's even better now) and everyone there from the jumpers to the staff and management were as nice as can be. I don't agree with the call they made in this case, but they are nice folks. Well, I suppose you haven't seen or noticed the new packing area, the new hangar, the new shower and laundry facilities, the team rooms, a state of the art swoop pond and facilities, new camping facilities and a myriad of other things. Your stance is just like everybody else. If they don't get somebody personally putting goodies or money in their hand, they fail to see what is provided. Typical attitude these days. My point is missed here. It's easy to tear apart an argument when you try several ways to make a point. I'm not defending the fact that Spaceland made these restrictions. I AM saying, they did nothing wrong, immoral, illegal. They made a business decision which they have every right to do. Yes, it is a USPA event. That USPA event just happened to be at Spaceland. If USPA had issue with it, they could have easily intervened. They didn't. Soooo.....and this is really my point that is missed amongst all the other jibberish (mine included).......If you don't like it, don't sit and say, "Bad DZ," "Bad USPA" "Don't you dare try to make business deals that prevent me from getting free stuff (cause that's what the issue is really, people aren't getting their free stuff)" Instead, figure a course of action that makes you competitive for the sponsorship $$. OR......put enough pressure on the event, through consumer action, that they change their policies. People spend too much time saying "Poor me" and not near enough time doing anything about it. THAT is my point. Yes, this did affect somebody this year. It also benefitted a ton of people with new facilities, planes, etc, used during nationals and that will be enduring. The sponsorship $$ aren't going to come anywhere close to recovering those costs. If you don't recognize how the $$ spent benefitted everybody at nationals and anybody that goes to Spaceland after now, well then open your eyes. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Yeah, that's always the best avenue to take. If we don't like it, SUE them! It's the American way! Note: I am NOT saying that this isn't stupid. It is. But why do we as a society always jump to this conclusion? People who know me, even just through my posts, know that that's not my attitude. And it works both ways. For every person inclined to sue at the drop of a hat, there's another person who considers every lawsuit to be frivolous. I generally don't debate the issue with people, because it inevitably devolves into having to defend against lawyer-bashing, and I have no interest in being a part of that circus. I said what I said because: in my professional opinion, it seems, on the face of it, that the police department's and the DA's office's lack of diligent investigation and reasonable law enforcement/prosecutorial judgment may have amounted to a sufficient abuse of their authority that the arrest of this man may constitute an actionable violation of his civil rights. Ok, agreed.....on all points. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

You didn't. That's my point: you're mischaracterizing other people's positions on the issue, and then using that as the "position" to argue against. Does little to advance the discussion. Ok, fair enough, my interpretation of what the complaints are. This really is getting pretty senseless. The end result is the sky is not falling. Individuals, teams, businesses and events will adapt to changing conditions. That is all. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Fine. And while we're at it, quit telling prospective customers they can't shop the way they see fit and not patronize businesses who seek to gain that advantage by fucking other people over. When did I say that? As a matter of fact I proposed it in the very next post. By all means, if you don't like it, do something about it. That IS what I'm saying. In this particular instance, perhaps you should consider how $$ were spent that benefitted ALL skydivers, not just "sponsored" ones and how many "sponsored" skydivers were affected with any significant impact on the other side. I'm just sayin'. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Yeah, that's always the best avenue to take. If we don't like it, SUE them! It's the American way! Note: I am NOT saying that this isn't stupid. It is. But why do we as a society always jump to this conclusion? Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

What can you tell from my profile? Profiles are VERY limited in info. You can derive what you want out of that. You may conclude that I have a personal agenda, but really I don't. Yes, I worked at Spaceland and certainly believe in the DZ and its business structure. But I don't work for them now. I don't represent them in any way. If it seems that I have an agenda to support them, no, I don't. Do I have a bias in their favor....sure....I'll grant that. But my thoughts are on the concepts and principles not the DZ or any other organization behind them. Does my profile reflect I have a master's degree in business management? No, I guess it doesn't. Is it a different perspective than Nomad's? Sure. Does Nomad have valid points? Absolutely. Is comparing major sporting events to skydiving (certainly not a "major" sporting event) valid? In some cases, yes. In other cases, no. Here's the bottom line: Businesses are going to spend their sponsorship dollars the way they see fit. Quit bitching about other people competing for the $$ and figure out how to make your interest group competitive for those $$. Quit telling businesses they can't run their business the way they see fit to give them an advantage. They can and they will. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

I respect the learning attitude and your intentions as you've stated. IMHO, based on your side of the story, I think the jump was reasonable and well-planned. I wouldn't have had a problem with it. Yes, it was a CRW jump, but so what? Sounds like a well planned CRW jump. CRW is anything flying "relative". Proximity flying is "relative." Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

What you don't realize is that the sport has transformed to VFS from the artistic freefly event. Many of the guys/gals on the top VFS (Arsenal and Standard) are veterans of the artistic event, some even national champions (Rook Nelson and maybe some others that I can't think of right now). Many of those top competitors have said they they won't compete in the artistic event anymore because of the subjective judging, preferring instead the objective judging of VFS. The sport is not "progressing" to the artistic event, it is progressing from it. I hope the artistic event doesn't go away because I enjoy it too. But I realize that VFS is the new wave. You should do some research on the events and competitors, both FS and VFS and really find out what got them where they are today. Each of your posts portrays how uninformed you are about the sport, where it is, where it has been, and where it is going as well as what it takes to compete at the top levels in ANY discipline. Someday you'll reflect on these posts and realize how uninformed they were. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

The draw is a computer generated draw, not something somebody made up. Again, you clearly do not understand or appreciate the level of flying or the competition rules and environment. Oh, yeah, and I'm a freeflier. But I also spend time doing video for competition teams and I always get in a few RW jumps every year too. I choose freefly as my dedicated discipline, but I have a healthy respect for FS. Yeah, Arsenal and Standard were pretty unbelievable too....but that's comparing apples to oranges. To fly at that level in either discipline takes unbelievable amounts of preparation. Do you have any clue what the backgrounds of Shannon Pilcher, Ian Bobo, Thomas Hughes, and Gary Beyer are? There are reasons why these guys are household names in skydiving. It ain't because they suck! Oh, yeah, and there's a reason this was a WR......because nobody's ever done it before!! If you think it's boring and don't appreciate it, that's fine. To each their own. Go somewhere else and don't bother yourself with it. It really is that easy. I wouldn't recommend knocking guys like Shannon, Ian, Thomas and Gary. It will only serve to make a reputation for yourself. Yours won't stand against theirs. I GUARANTEE it! Who knows, someday you may want to make a jump with them??!! Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

That's already happened......on the free live feed video and chat that Spaceland provided. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

What?? The sky is NOT falling?? Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

this is typical from people who can't dock in control in any orientation (belly, head up, or head down) - I suspect your idea of fun is a trash dive where everyone 'attempts' to get in front of a camera guy for the 2 or 3 seconds to stick tongue out at him And you are a typical forum writer; if all else fails and you don't know what you're talking about, attack the other persons credibility. It's not necessary to attack credibility when the poster clearly displays their lack of knowledge in their own posts. My guess is, a few years from now, if your still in the sport, you'll look back at your posts and realize how uninformed they are. You clearly don't understand what you're looking at in those videos and appreciate what it takes to get there. That's blatantly obvious to anyone that does understand. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

Well, in that case, I say give us a picture of you without the bra and we'll imagine what it would've looked like from there. Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.